林家血案之六十七： 辩方做结案陈词：检察官对谢的指控不符合事实

cangaru

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 16:34
你怎么知道没查？因为新闻没提？那这么有利于谢的证据怎么辩方律师也不提？ ...

如果真查到了，写这封信的人可以按做伪证论处，关个十年八年都不算多，这么大的灭门惨案，写这信肯定有目的的，肯定也是要追究的

如果是跟谢有关的人写的那就更有价值了，完全可以证明谢的犯罪动机和行为

maudlin

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 16:42
如果真查到了，写这封信的人可以按做伪证论处，关个十年八年都不算多，这么大的灭门惨案，写这信肯定有目 ...

你怎么知道是没查还是查不到谁写的？辩方律师可以像你一样辩护啊，为啥不提？血手印和这封信是帮谢洗清嫌疑的重要线索，辩方怎么丝毫不提？

cangaru

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 16:44
你怎么知道是没查还是查不到谁写的？辩方律师可以像你一样辩护啊，为啥不提？ ...

这哪里是辩护，这是对澳洲警方办案能力的无信心无信任

辩方律师只会对控方指控作出反应，对澳洲警察的能力问题并不必然是他职业范围的事情

其实新闻里也说了辩方律师在庭上也提到了控方的无能，说过他们的套路就是先抓住一个，认定他是罪犯，然后拼凑证据，对其他疑点并不关心

maudlin

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 16:51
这哪里是辩护，这是对澳洲警方办案能力的无信心无信任

辩方律师只会对控方指控作出反应，对澳洲警察的能 ...

哈哈，辩方律师都质疑了警方陷害谢，拼凑证据，还不敢提血手印和信不查因为怕被认为质疑警方能力吗？原来质疑警方能力比质疑警方陷害谢更不能让警方接受么。。。

cangaru

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 17:00
哈哈，辩方律师都质疑了警方陷害谢，拼凑证据，还不敢提血手印和信不查因为怕被认为质疑警方能力吗？原来 ...

看清楚了再喷啊

前面我说的是辩方对控方应该做的，辩方对警察的能力没有义务致评，我们在这讨论都是民间瞎聊

再说你怎么知道辩方对这些疑点没有指出来，早先的报道里辩方律师就指出控方的证据有问题，比如说电箱的手印等等，现在也还在庭辩不是吗，还没完

maudlin

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 17:10
看清楚了再喷啊

前面我说的是辩方对控方应该做的，辩方对警察的能力没有义务致评，我们在这讨论都是民间 ...

那你又怎么知道警方没有去查？再说这不是置评警方能力的问题，而是向陪审团说明这所谓的两条线索能说明罪犯另有其人的问题。
辩方能说些什么，能不能提出其他线索说明另有其人，建议你去看看48小时系列。都是很有争议的案件纪录片

cangaru

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 17:14
那你又怎么知道警方没有去查？再说这不是置评警方能力的问题，而是向陪审团说明这两条线索能说明罪犯另有 ...

辩方律师没有义务提供线索去指控他人，他要做的就是找出控方的证据漏洞为谢辩护就可以了

比如说他指出从受害人手里抵抗留下的毛发和DNA证据并不是谢的，从电箱上留下的DNA证据也不是谢的，指出这些逻辑漏洞就可以了，辩方律师不必然要找出DNA到底是谁的，这是控方的义务

问题就在控方，他们不去找其他人，而只是把抓住的这个往死里整，目的是草草结案了事，就算完成任务了

ameng00

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 17:14
那你又怎么知道警方没有去查？再说这不是置评警方能力的问题，而是向陪审团说明这所谓的两条线索能说明罪 ...

不要跟他们说了，你说有这么封匿名信，算是谢转移注意力的一个线索，他们说哪有这种信；你给他们看了，他们又说警察为什么查不到谁写的？所以千言万语汇成一句话：谢是无辜的。
其实这种信在那个时候出现，是谁写的？警察那时候怀疑谁，就是谁写的啊！如果是真凶，警察都没查到他，他又何必跳脚？这种浅显的道理，应该是个思路清楚的人都知道吧。

maudlin

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 17:26
辩方律师没有义务提供线索去指控他人，他要做的就是找出控方的证据漏洞为谢辩护就可以了

比如说他指出从 ...

提出血手印和威胁信线索是叫做指控他人吗？根本不用提具体是谁只要能说明不是谢就行啊！

cangaru

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 17:34
提出血手印和威胁信线索是叫做指控他人吗？根本不用提具体是谁只要能说明不是谢就行啊！ ...

前面说了，辩方律师就是这么做的，比如指出手印上的DNA与谢无关

winforjewellery

参照美国辛普森的案件了。估计想说警察栽赃 然后疑点利益归于被告 然后无罪释放 可能被告的大状打算这么打脱

maudlin

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 17:41
前面说了，辩方律师就是这么做的，比如指出手印上的DNA与谢无关

信呢？血手印总结词里也么有啊

LittleBigPlanet

jacey 发表于 2015-9-24 11:14
好吧！费神再给你普及一下。哲学渗透在日常所有的事项之中，构建了道德与法律。哲学不是给你终极答案，而 ...

谢被判有罪当然是道德的了,这么多直接和间接证据指向他,他被判有罪很正常啊

根据英国哲学家Jeremy Bentham的效益主义,让社会总体幸福最大化,舆论即便影响到司法也可以是道德的,具体到这个案子,至少足迹大部分人为此而欣慰,人们心中的正义得到了实现

延伸到难民问题,那么多人反对难民也是符合道德的啊,难民大量涌进来恶化了社会的经济和安全环境,使大部分民众的利益受损。只有反对大量难民的涌入才符合民众的利益

haohaizi

真漫长

ameng00

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 17:41
前面说了，辩方律师就是这么做的，比如指出手印上的DNA与谢无关

请教出处？

ameng00

winforjewellery 发表于 2015-9-24 17:43
参照美国辛普森的案件了。估计想说警察栽赃 然后疑点利益归于被告 然后无罪释放 可能被告的大状打算这么打 ...

辛普森案件里，警察采集血样时确实混入了其他物质，而且负责案件的警察确实是个种族歧视者，陪审团又是黑人为主。这个案件中的辩护律师所说的相对弱爆了。

cangaru

maudlin 发表于 2015-9-24 17:43
信呢？血手印总结词里也么有啊

控方并没指控信是谢写的，辩方都不需要指出信不是谢写的了

手印的DNA不是谢的早就说过了

cangaru

ameng00 发表于 2015-9-24 17:48
请教出处？

Hair found in the hands of the victims and DNA taken from the power box at the family home both failed to provide any connection to the accused man.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au ... reuy9-1226313284183

jasyangau

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 17:26
辩方律师没有义务提供线索去指控他人，他要做的就是找出控方的证据漏洞为谢辩护就可以了

比如说他指出从 ...

你的英文很很好的，怎么就没看出来，法庭那句话说的不是“受害人手里抵抗留下的毛发和DNA证据并不是谢的”呢？
说意思的明白，不能证明是也不能证明不是。

SoftSome

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015- ... -for-murder/6802530

SoftSome

Robert Xie trial: Murder accused had 'loving' relationship with Lin family, Sydney Supreme Court hears

Robert Xie had no financial or emotional motive to murder five members of the Lin family inside their family home in Sydney, a Supreme Court jury has heard.

Lian Bin 'Robert' Xie, 50, stands accused of killing his brother-in-law, newsagent Min Lin; Mr Lin's wife Lily; their two young boys; and Lily's sister Irene at their North Epping home in Sydney's north-west in July 2009.

Seven months after the murder trial opened, his defence is now providing the jury with the reasons for his not guilty plea.

Graham Turnbull QC refuted the crown's claims of an "intense, bitter hatred" between Xie and his newsagent brother-in-law Min 'Norman' Lin.

Instead he painted a picture of a "loving and respectful relationship" and a "union of two equals" who lived near each other so their children could play with each other.

"When you look at the capacity of a killer to asphyxiate a child with their hands, beat them with an object and leave them to die, that would be a person with no love or affection [for them]," he said.

Whereas "all the evidence showed happy families".

Mr Turnbull said acrimony between Xie and surviving members of the Lin family only arose after the murders in a dispute over the family's "most precious asset".

The jury was replayed a police audio tape of Xie describing the difficulties his brother-in-law's newsagency was going through.

The court also heard that Xie was not interested in taking over management of the business because of its long hours and manual labour.

He described Xie as astute, intelligent, and fully employed with managing his share portfolio at the time.

The jury is not expected to retire to consider a verdict for another two weeks.

SoftSome

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/accuse ... 0150924-gju3ju.html

SoftSome

Accused murderer Robert Xie could not have killed Lin family, Supreme Court told

Allegations against accused Lin family murderer Robert Xie 'inconsistent with facts', court hears
Kathy Lin willing to "say anything" to protect her husband, prosecution claims
Prison inmate 'reeled in' accused murderer Xie: prosecution
​Accused murderer Robert Xie could not have strangled and beaten his two young nephews and his brother and sister-in-law to death because family was "fundamental" to his life, a court has heard.
Their family life was the core of their activities.

Graham Turnbull, SC
"We're talking about killers, and I mean killers [plural], who would lay their hands on a child … beat them, asphyxiate them with their bare hands, and leave them to die," Mr Xie's barrister Graham Turnbull, SC, said in his closing address to the jury in his client's murder trial.

"They are people who have no appreciation or love or affection for those children at all – leaving them beaten and discarded. There's no affection at all."

Mr Turnbull said that, far from harbouring such "intense bitterness and hatred" toward his brother-in-law's family as the Crown has asserted, Mr Xie had a close, loving relationship with them.
The two families lived just 300 metres away from each other in North Epping and regularly spent time at each others' houses, he said.
This included regular badminton games between Mr Xie and his nephew Terry Lin who, the Crown alleges, he later murdered.
The two families also attended the home of Mr Xie's father and mother-in-law together every Friday night for dinner.

"One of the themes of the evidence was that family relationships were fundamental to these people – both those who died and those who lived," Mr Turnbull said. "Their family life was the core of their activities."
Mr Turnbull also sought to cast doubt on the Crown's claim that Mr Xie killed the Lin family because he wanted to get hold of their assets, including the small newsagency they owned in Epping.
He said that, during one of the secretly recorded conversations between Mr Xie and a fellow inmate who became a police informant, the accused killer had described the newsagency as "shit".
"That business wasn't a business that was doing well," Mr Turnbull said. "That wasn't a business that would attract Robert Xie or Kathy Lin in any circumstances. It was going south. It was, to use [Robert Xie's] terms, a 'shit business'."
Mr Turnbull took the jury back to Mr Xie's original police interviews, which allegedly demonstrated that, far from trying to cover up a murder, his client had been "simply trying to help".
Nevertheless, he said, the police had subjected his client to unprecedented scrutiny.
"This man was being investigated in a way that's probably never been repeated in this jurisdiction," Mr Turnbull said. "He's been investigated up hill and down dale. Listening devices in his car, interception devices on his phone – he's been followed around, looked into."
"If there was something to find [that proved Mr Xie's guilt], they would have found it."
The trial continues.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/accuse ... .html#ixzz3mdr413Uw
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

jasyangau

看新闻学英语
asphyxiate 窒息，使窒息
acrimony 恶语相向

cangaru

jasyangau 发表于 2015-9-24 18:04
你的英文很很好的，怎么就没看出来，法庭那句话说的不是“受害人手里抵抗留下的毛发和DNA证据并不是谢的 ...

医学上如果提到了DNA检测，不是谢的就不是谢的，有什么奇怪么

除非说提取不出DNA，那才是说无法证明是，或不是

jasyangau

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 18:23
医学上如果提到了DNA检测，不是谢的就不是谢的，有什么奇怪么

除非说提取不出DNA，那才是说无法证明是， ...

那你可以把自己刚给出的那句原话不加料地再翻译一次，看看怎么样

cangaru

jasyangau 发表于 2015-9-24 18:27
那你可以把自己刚给出的那句原话不加料地再翻译一次，看看怎么样

受害人手里的毛发和电箱上提取的DNA全部和被告人没有任何关系

原话

DNA提取出来检测以后和被告人没有任何关系，和提取不出DNA证明不了是或不是，是完全不同的概念

jasyangau

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 18:34
受害人手里的毛发和电箱上提取的DNA全部和被告人没有任何关系

原话

Hair found in the hands of the victims and DNA taken from the power box at the family home both failed to provide any connection to the accused man.

“failed to provide any connection”跟“did not connect to”或者“were proven not connecting to”不一样吧？

“无法被证实”并不能等价于“不是”，对不？

maudlin

cangaru 发表于 2015-9-24 18:00
控方并没指控信是谢写的，辩方都不需要指出信不是谢写的了

手印的DNA不是谢的早就说过了 ...

不是谢写的那不是说明另有其人比如黑帮？辩方才应该展开说啊。另有黑帮不就证明了谢无辜？
血手印如果是重要线索辩方总结理应再提啊，控方都翻来覆去的讲那些个耳熟能详的点，辩方怎么n久前提一句就不提了。

flying88

SoftSome 发表于 2015-9-24 18:13
Accused murderer Robert Xie could not have killed Lin family, Supreme Court told

Allegations agains ...

和死者关系这么好的亲戚居然被指控为谋杀者，警方这下麻烦大了。