有海外汇款又怕ATO查账的看进来，一劳永逸解决问题

denn

LZ，想请教一问题，现在很多人买房做贷款时用，海外假收入和当地假收入证明声明签字来贷款，假如ATO因某些原因查到，后果如何。是不是要求声明签字来贷款的收入来打税。

humphreysang

iuij 发表于 2013-6-18 09:11
哈哈！ 有道理，中国雅思考试；估计他们得专门组成一个政府部门来搞这些问题了吧。光是中国人的姓氏就可 ...

You are right in part. As there is no death duty/inheritance tax in Australia, a well managed estate could be passed through generations, which is the core service of the Jewish firm I am working for.

But you are right in that the family affairs are most complex matter in the world. Some family members see themselves as the guardian of the wealth which will be eventually passed to their offspring just like what the elder generation did for them, so they do their best to at least maintain the asset.

Nevertheless, it is not uncommon that some black sheep heirs see the wealth are their birth right and do whatever they want to with them. In so doing, even a multi-million asset could be depleted in a very short time span. So our job is not just to protect our client's family wealth against taxmen, but also, ironically, keep it from some family members.

shenyouwohao

请问楼主，张三现在中国，但以前短登过，张三汇款到澳洲自己的账户，ATO会查吗？必须用父母的国内账户汇吗？

humphreysang

sunhaicheng 发表于 2013-6-18 09:13
LZ纯粹是做贼心虚，如果不是偷税漏税，那就坦率的向ATO解释，提供合理的证据，澳洲都是重视表面证据，无罪 ...

Well, quite contrary to the perception of some Chinese Australian, most accountants in public service are quite honest in our dealings with both clients and ATO, as we could only make a living even make a fortune (the two partners in the firm are driving Mercedes Benz) out of our hard-earned CA charter. Therefore, the fact there are some many accounting firms in Australia implies that ATO may not be that harmless.

humphreysang

nesta2008 发表于 2013-6-18 10:07
赞美一下楼主。。很多非专业人士还是非常不懂的。。

我也被查过。不过后来就写了个信去，说什么钱是家里 ...

If you only deal with accountants once or twice a year, your options may be limited.

If you grow your family asset to certain extent, you will find many Jewish firms in downtown of each capital city. Most of our clients are life-time long. In some cases, one of bosses is accountant for three generations of some family.

Australian accountants are quite different with lawyers. Some clients may hate their lawyers very much but still retain them every year as they are simply the best (they may extract lots of money from you, however much more from your opponent), whereas clients must be happy with their accountants, otherwise it is relatively easy to find alternative - many Jewish firms are situated around Martin Place.

humphreysang

madahaliya 发表于 2013-6-18 13:49
我奇怪了，为什么有这么多中国人被查呀？是不是他们专门针对中国人呀？前一阵看报纸，说美国有一些人被Targ ...

Well, I cannot comment on the discrimination theory, which may or may not be the case. There are many rich Chinese here, that is for sure.

My interpretation is that, among countries with most frequent migrant exchange with Australia, UK, NZ, US even India have database in English, which could be readily exchanged with ATO, whereas Chinese language plus communist party make it nearly impractical in short term. ATO could not deal with Chinese government, so they deal with us.

humphreysang

madahaliya 发表于 2013-6-18 13:46
太好了。ATO实在太不讲理了。我快被气死了，他们再不还我清白，我也准备打官司了。
...

Believe me, as long as you are not pushed to the corner. You'd better be cooperative or just let it be.

A very simple example hypothetically, if a very successful shop ask accountants to lodge quarterly BAS, it may take hours and cost hundreds of dollars with accuracy rate say 99%. Surely accountants can double check to make 100% correct which may take days and cost client thousands, so it is in the best interest of clients to have variance around hundreds of dollars at most (as it is in and out, on average, it should be around nil over years).

However if the shop's relationship with ATO is nasty, they may be audited every time. So accountants must make it 100% right, consequently every year the client incur unnecessary accounting costs of dozens of thousands of dollars.

Which could be even worse, as the shop's bookkeeper could not make perfect record (no one could if you have a very busy and successful business), there could be fines and penalties.

humphreysang

fifi 发表于 2013-6-18 14:03
ATO的杀手锏就是 Part IV A

而且国外税务部门的常例是养肥了再杀

Part IVA is a big problem for big boys like big four banks or Macquarie, who always challenge ATO in court.

It is not a major concern for small-to-medium enterprises, who usually are well-advised by their accountants to keep away from questionable transactions which may be caught by Part IVA.

humphreysang

fifi 发表于 2013-6-18 14:03
ATO的杀手锏就是 Part IV A

而且国外税务部门的常例是养肥了再杀

For your second point, I simply reckon they just have too much on their plate to deal with the dodgy taxpayers, so it may take years for them to notice the issue and another years to fix it.

humphreysang

fifi 发表于 2013-6-18 14:22
很不幸，税务法规上没有“在中国交过税，在澳大利亚不用交税”。

That is very accurate.

The Double Tax Agreement either gives exemption for one side or credit for your tax paid in China. Unfortunately most rich Chinese paid a very low rate of tax on their income back in China, the difference between which and 46.5% top marginal rate here will make them regret so much why hadn't they migrated to Hong Kong, which only tax on source basis rather than residence basis.

humphreysang

2happiness 发表于 2013-6-18 16:14
感谢LZ. 非常赞. 小小建议下: 请用中文发贴好吗? 不是看不懂E文, 而是担心如此高密度的税务讨论, 不是ATO,  ...

Sorry, I could only reply in English in office, and I stay back in office most of the time around 30 June, understandably.

I understand your concern but hold a different view, as the whole purpose of my article is to show fellow Chinese an open and straightforward way to deal with ATO. If I adopt a secretive approach as kindly advised, it just make my article meaningless.

humphreysang

denn 发表于 2013-6-18 18:24
LZ，想请教一问题，现在很多人买房做贷款时用，海外假收入和当地假收入证明声明签字来贷款，假如ATO因某些 ...

Well, understandably, I could not comment.

madahaliya

humphreysang 发表于 2013-6-18 19:03
Believe me, as long as you are not pushed to the corner. You'd better be cooperative or just let  ...

谢谢回复！税局要的资料我倒是都能提供，但他们一开始说写封信就行，又说让寄钱的人写封信就行，就不告诉我要什么，还只发个短信通知我，结果我没收到，就说我欠钱了。我觉得他们很过份。

lostmyway

我可以也问个问题吗？我国内的投资收入ATO能查到吗？如果我根本不把钱汇过来？或者我父母用我的钱，我父母的钱给我汇过来。

bigniqiu

Upupup

JohnnySu

不是泼冷水
但是申请Ruling在这种情况下只是多次一举  
收到ATO信以后再解释 跟自行提前提供解释是同一回事  
什么时候提供解释对ATO审查结果没有影响  关键是看你提供信息是否能让ATO满意汇款不是海外收入

JohnnySu

lostmyway 发表于 2013-6-18 21:13
我可以也问个问题吗？我国内的投资收入ATO能查到吗？如果我根本不把钱汇过来？或者我父母用我的钱，我父母 ...

Data Matching暂时不到这水平 以后就难说了

moon0801

mark 一下

风中的旋回

mark

murong1790

那需要在登陆前把钱就转给父母吗？

melodyjc

Mark， 学些了~~

谢谢LZ，

shenyouwohao

shenyouwohao 发表于 2013-6-18 18:36
请问楼主，张三现在中国，但以前短登过，张三汇款到澳洲自己的账户，ATO会查吗？必须用父母的国内账户汇吗 ...

楼主看到我的问题了吗？

挪威的森林

Mark

humphreysang

shenyouwohao 发表于 2013-6-18 18:36
请问楼主，张三现在中国，但以前短登过，张三汇款到澳洲自己的账户，ATO会查吗？必须用父母的国内账户汇吗 ...

This is a question depending on the technical details.

1. No one could expect how ATO audits, however, it is rumoured that any amount exceeding a certain dollar will come onto ATO's radar.

2. It seems like you are not tax resident and will not be one in foreseeable future, so non-tax resident will only be assessed on Australian-sourced income.

otavra

学习了

melgrace

有足够的资料能证明钱是父母赠送，gift就应该问题不大

shenyouwohao

humphreysang 发表于 2013-6-19 17:47
This is a question depending on the technical details.

1. No one could expect how ATO audits, ho ...

谢谢！
另外，为什么大家说Parent's gift就不用交税，这成立吗？gift不也是收入吗？

future2521

shenyouwohao 发表于 2013-6-19 21:59
谢谢！
另外，为什么大家说Parent's gift就不用交税，这成立吗？gift不也是收入吗？ ...

Gift是别人上过税的收入再给你的。不需要你拿到手再重复上税，懂了米。。。

Cyf123

学习了。谢谢！

gter8009