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楼主:猫儿不笨

谢连斌案上诉前疑点讨论 [复制链接]

发表于 2019-5-20 21:42 |显示全部楼层
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Hetbert 发表于 2019-5-20 20:20
根据官网,应该在周三3点半以后可以看到更新的Court List

http://www.courtlist.justice.nsw.gov.au/cou ...


Date        Time        Case no.        Case name        Jurisdiction        Court        Listing type        Presiding officer        Location        Court room        L
-
06 Jun        9:00 am        2011/00147183        CCA Appeal Lian Bin Xie v R        Criminal        Court of Criminal Appeal        Callover (CCA)       
Unassigned
Supreme Court Sydney
Unassigned



看样子时间推后至06/06/2019,星期四
地点还没定

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发表于 2019-5-23 00:56 |显示全部楼层
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查到谢联斌上诉法庭的主法官就是NSW的chief justice Tom Bathurst

发表于 2019-5-23 00:57 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 猫儿不笨 于 2019-5-23 00:43 编辑

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.a ... f7a4d4c297d5eea7707     这是chief justice Tom Bathurst 2 年前在律师年会的一个长篇发言。文章强调了86%澳人赞成多文化多民族的澳洲现状,而少数民族抱怨法律对他们不公平/不易接近/语言障碍等问题,和他认为应该做更多工作以改善这个局面。文章一开始引用1880年澳洲总理授权违法拘留了一船中国非法船民,最后屈于法庭压力而不得不释放船民的事实做开头白。

发表于 2019-5-23 00:57 |显示全部楼层
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这还有完没完了

发表于 2019-5-23 01:01 |显示全部楼层
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Gomere 发表于 2019-5-22 23:57
这还有完没完了

14-18/10/2019,是上诉法庭开庭审理上诉时间
若上诉赢了就完了,不赢就没完

发表于 2019-5-23 01:02 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-23 00:01
14-18/10/2019,是上诉法庭开庭审理上诉时间
若上诉赢了就完了,不赢就没完 ...

怎么没完了?继续打下去直到自己胜利?
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发表于 2019-5-23 01:03 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 猫儿不笨 于 2019-5-23 00:41 编辑
猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-22 23:57
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.a ... ear-speech-in-full/ ...


文章很长,是他在年会上讲出来的,可见今年71岁的他还是精力充沛。这篇文章也使作为少数民族的我对他有了一些信心。他是在2011年被任命的,之前是NSW大律师协会会长。原来一直是商业律师

发表于 2019-5-23 01:04 |显示全部楼层
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Gomere 发表于 2019-5-23 00:02
怎么没完了?继续打下去直到自己胜利?

是的

发表于 2019-5-23 01:05 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-23 00:04
是的

wat

发表于 2019-5-23 01:06 |显示全部楼层
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我相信他对谢案/林家血案一直有关注也很熟悉,因为那发生于2009年,悉尼家喻户晓,更别说他了。我还怀疑,谢1-3审的大律师Graham Turnbull 不久前改行不做大律师了,被任命为悉尼一个新法庭的法官,应该跟Tom Bathurst 有关,因为后者作为chief justice,负责整个NSW所有法官的任命

发表于 2019-5-23 01:08 |显示全部楼层
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Graham Turnbull 是NSW 名列第二的大律师,被业内誉为Gentlemen’ gentleman,也既正派,有绅士风度又受人敬重。而 Tom Bathurst 能够作为大律师协会会长,进一步又攀上这行业的最高座椅,应该也是同一类人,他们应该是朋友或同志。而且到了这个层次,这种人心里想的应该是正直高尚的目标,譬如维护司法公正,留下芳名。如果这些猜测有几分正确的话,对于另两个法官的任命,应该都来自于Tom Bathurst,我都有了暗暗的信心和期待
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发表于 2019-5-23 01:52 |显示全部楼层
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Xie did it, Turnbull是gentleman就把他收押

发表于 2019-5-23 01:56 |显示全部楼层
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Gomere 发表于 2019-5-23 00:52
Xie did it, Turnbull是gentleman就把他收押

办成冤案的是检察官Mark Tedeschi
Graham Turnbull 是谢联斌1-3审的大律师,三审以hung jury 结局

发表于 2019-5-23 01:57 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-23 00:56
办成冤案的是检察官Mark Tedeschi
Graham Turnbull 是谢联斌1-3审的大律师,三审以hung jury 结局 ...

可以大义灭亲
I can't take this case any more

发表于 2019-5-26 12:53 |显示全部楼层
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Search NSW Court Lists
Help information Back to search results Print this listing
Case name

CCA Appeal Lian Bin Xie v R

Date

06 Jun

Time

9:00 am

Case number

2011/00147183

List number

-

Location

Supreme Court Sydney

Room

Unassigned

Court address

Address is unavailable as court room is unassigned. Please check again later.

Court phone number

1300 679 272

Jurisdiction

Criminal

Presiding officer

Unassigned
Court

Court of Criminal Appeal

Listing type

Callover (CCA)

Data last refreshed at 11:50am 26 May 2019
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禁止发言

发表于 2019-5-26 13:19 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-22 23:57
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/chief-justice-tom-bathursts-2017-law-year-speech-in-full/ ...

说明这个人至少表面上不会对谢有偏见
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发表于 2019-5-26 13:25 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-23 00:08
Graham Turnbull 是NSW 名列第二的大律师,被业内誉为Gentlemen’ gentleman,也既正派,有绅士风度又受人 ...

上诉能推翻之前陪审团表决的结果吗?

还是还是做无罪辩护吗?

上诉还有陪审团吗?
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发表于 2019-5-26 13:35 |显示全部楼层
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Julian1028 发表于 2019-5-26 12:19
说明这个人至少表面上不会对谢有偏见


2011年他上台时的发言主调,就是要恢复公众对NSW司法机关的信心。那携带的信息很明确

办成谢联斌案子的主检察官Tedeschi,也是另3个已经被翻案的冤错案的检察官。记得是10来年前,NSW司法内部破天荒召开了有史以来第一次的类似纪律检查教育活动,针对Tedeschi,结果是不了了之。但我相信这应该就是使得Tom Bathurst 上台演讲以“恢复公众对NSW司法机关的信心”为主题的由来

发表于 2019-5-26 13:46 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 猫儿不笨 于 2019-9-22 01:10 编辑

上诉没有陪审团
代之为三位大法官组成的法庭,有一位主法官,这一次听说就是NSW的Chief Justice Tom Bathurst本人。如果消息属实的话也证明他本人对这案子的重视。另一案子Gordon Wood acquittal,上诉法庭主法官不是当时NSW的Chief Justice,而是另外任命的一位大法官

理论上若上诉成功可以有两个结果,一是推翻原判,不再追究,另一是推翻原判,重新审判。但见到的例子都是不再追究
估计道理是已经竭尽全力定罪了,到头来被发现错了,不可能再成功定罪。另一考虑可能是避免对冤案受害者的二次加害
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发表于 2019-5-26 14:21 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-5-26 12:46
上诉没有陪审团
代之为三位大律师组成的法庭,有一位主法官,这一次听说就是NSW的Chief Justice Tom Bathur ...

希望能推翻,还是觉得这个灭门惨案不是1个人能搞定的,警方的证据没有说服力.

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发表于 2019-5-26 14:28 |显示全部楼层
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Julian1028 发表于 2019-5-26 13:21
希望能推翻,还是觉得这个灭门惨案不是1个人能搞定的,警方的证据没有说服力.  ...

好的进展是,谢现在与他的大律师沟通很好
原来之间还有一位律师,谢把自己想法写了给他,但见到大律师时才知道信息并没有被上传
大律师听说之后直接与谢联系,全盘支持谢的论点。另一律师也被提升调走了
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发表于 2019-6-3 00:20 |显示全部楼层
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https://www.dailytelegraph.com.a ... 9cbe40920fb7504f6f9

警察卧底说谢亲口说“I did it — I did it, I did it”.

好奇怪,要是像他说的,有录音,有认罪,还用得着四轮审判么?

In Parts I, II and III of this series we introduced you to the finest crime-solving assets in NSW law enforcement. They pose as hitmen, paedophiles and high-level drug dealers working from the Branch’s ultra-secretive headquarters. Now, in Part IV, we reveal one of the most critical undercover jobs ever — the day undercover Josh Harris coaxed a confession from the mass-murderer Robert Xie — inside Parklea Correctional Centre.

Not long before he retired from the NSW Undercover Branch, Josh Harris was deployed on one of his last, most critical assignments. Using little more than a cover story and a hidden microphone, he was dispatched into the prison system to meet Lian Bin ‘Robert’ Xie, a tall, wiry man awaiting trial for the mass murder of his wife’s family, a case known widely through Sydney as the ‘Lin family murders’.

“He was a very calm man, very softly-spoken, but quite smart and cunning,” Josh said of his three meetings with Xie. “I could see him taking it all in. I mean, I always thought he did it, but why would he meet me if he hadn’t?”

July 18, 2009. A clutch of police cars slowed to a stop outside a two-storey home on Boundary Rd, North Epping, close to where parents were watching their children play weekend sport.

Inside, officers encountered distressing scenes. In the master bedroom they found Min Lin and his wife Lily, aged 45 and 44 respectively. In another room they found two boys, Henry and Terry, aged 12 and 9, and in a third room was Lily’s sister, Irene, aged 39. All five died in incredibly violent circumstances, their faces bludgeoned beyond recognition. Police suspected a bitter, deeply personal attack.


Robert Xie is serving life for killing his brother-in-law Min Lee and four members of his family.

Yang Fei Lin holding up pictures of her daughter and grandsons killed by Robert Xie. Picture: Jenny Evans
Homicide detectives spent nearly two years ruling out Chinese triads and a slew of alternative theories before finally arresting Xie, the family’s uncle, on May 5, 2011. Bloody footprints from the crime scene matched his ASIC-brand running shoes. Surveillance footage showed him cutting up a shoebox and flushing away its remnants. And, crucially, detectives had located a blood stain inside Xie’s garage that later became known as Stain 91, which contained a positive match with Terry Lin’s DNA profile.

But even with this web of circumstantial evidence, there were doubts as to whether a jury would convict. “We needed admissions,” Josh explained.


A year after the arrest, as Xie awaited trial, some unexpected help arrived from a prison informant, someone who’d met with Xie inside Long Bay Correctional Centre. The informant possessed incredible new details about the murders, which he was happy to exchange for a reduction to his own charges.

He provided graphic accounts of his conversations with Xie, claiming that he’d sedated his wife Kathy on the night of the slayings, and that he’d purchased the murder weapon at a two-dollar shop fitted with dummy security cameras.

But the informant also provided some stunning new information that detectives couldn’t have known.

Xie, he said, was hatching a plan to exonerate himself: if he was made to stand trial he would arrange for a dead person’s fingerprints to be planted on the murder weapon, which hadn’t been located.

If it was true, then the alibi presented an incredible opportunity to the investigation.

A month later, when Xie was formally ordered to stand trial, Josh’s phone started ringing at the Undercover Branch.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AFTER EACH OTHER
It was around this time that Josh had actually moved out of full-time deep-cover work. He’d gone from the pressurised world of hitmen and drug dealers to the staid existence of administration and training. Essentially he was office-bound, training recruits and teaching them techniques, but occasionally he was asked to redeploy into the field due to his vast experience.

“It was like tying on footy boots again,” Josh said of the Xie investigation. “The nerves, the butterflies and excitement came flooding back. Such a great job and challenge.”

Detectives needed an ‘undertaker’ to meet with Xie in prison, someone who could develop his trust and draw out admissions by discussing the cadaver and fingerprints.

Josh’s appearance, menacing and brooding, combined with his track-record of success as a ‘hitman’, struck his bosses as a winning combination for such a grim-sounding role.

But before meeting Xie, Josh first had to meet the informant, the conduit who would pave the way for this introduction. He needed to know everything about this person — where he’d grown up, where he went to school, his favourite football team, his interests in life.

“We have to look after each other,” Josh kept saying to him, as they cobbled together a cover story for how they knew each other, all of it a precaution in case Xie began asking questions.


Undercover cop Josh met with Xie inside Parklea Prison where he had to first gain Xie’s trust.
Josh’s first meeting with his target would be held on April 26, 2013, a few months out from the pre-trial hearings. They spoke for a half-hour in the visiting area of Parklea prison, where Xie had been moved ahead of his trial, the recording marred by background conversation in the prison.

“The environment was very difficult because it was in a prison,” Josh said. “But I was pretty proud of the information we received off him.”

Josh decided not to go anywhere near the murders during that conversation (“I was never going to ask him about the murders on that first meeting”) but he walked out of the prison that day with a breadcrumb, a tiny admission to get him started. “Go ahead,” Xie had muttered, when Josh had asked him whether he should start sourcing a body.

It’s an old military cliche that no mission ever goes according to plan, but in Josh’s line of work these ‘what-ifs’, as they’re known, are factored into the strategy. The ‘what if’ in this case was Xie’s wife Kathy, who strongly supported her husband’s innocence and turned up to visit him as often as possible. It became impossible to discuss anything about the cadaver, the fingerprints, or the case in her presence.

“Rapport is just the biggest thing,” Josh explained to me, when I asked him how he was able to build trust with Kathy so rapidly, and then gain her permission to meet with Xie alone.

Rapport is the basic building block of undercover work, one of the first techniques taught to recruits. Establishing it with Kathy happened gradually. He put her at ease by explaining his interest in the case and the people he knew who might be able to help. She liked him, and it didn’t hurt that Xie, too, encouraged his wife to trust him. Eventually she relented, calling Josh on his mobile to say he was clear to meet with her husband alone.


On May 24, 2013, Josh returned to the jail for a final time, armed with a listening device and camera both rolling on the discussion. A team of police eavesdropped as Josh and Xie discussed the murder weapon, then the cadaver.

Finally, in a moment that stunned everybody, Xie raised the murders themselves and made admissions to the killings.

“He actually said, ‘I did it — I did it, I did it’,” Josh said, explaining that Xie repeated himself when the operative pretended he couldn’t hear him. “It was awesome … it was the money ball; but he still never told me about the weapon and where to find it.”


Robert Xie during his final police interview in March 2010 at Ryde police station.

The funeral for the Lin Family which was held at Sydney Showground, Homebush.
Xie’s trial would later hear substantial attacks on these recordings from Xie’s barrister, Graham Turnbull, who argued that a jury shouldn’t be permitted to hear the conversations for several reasons. Aside from being almost wholly indecipherable in parts, Turnbull said Josh had misrepresented himself and violated his client’s fundamental right to silence, because he never would have met with Josh if he’d known he was a police officer.

The judge weighed this argument, but ultimately rejected it, providing the recordings to the jury for their deliberations.

On January 12, 2017, Xie was found guilty by an 11-1 majority verdict. He is currently appealing his five life sentences.

LIFE AFTER THE POLICE
Josh retired from the NSW Police Force in February 2015, departing with several awards and accolades in recognition of his service. Today, he runs a business with a friend, both of them working hard to make ends meet.

“I thought it was a job I could do forever,” Josh said of his time at the branch, of which he retains only fond memories. “But there is a shelf life.”

Aside from his wife, he told no one about his covert existence. His parents only recently discovered the extent of his career, and there will be readers of this story who interact with him daily and have no idea of the service he provided for the state.

It’s the same deal for anyone who’s experienced the exciting but circumscribed life in the clandestine services: an occluded existence, where even socialising with cop colleagues, at charity events, the football, at retirement functions and black-tie dinners, is off-limits for security reasons.

Personal safety, Josh’s wife said, remains something of a “work in progress”. Both she and Josh are hyper-vigilant about their parenting, especially in the aftermath of his work on paedophile rings. But if there’s one relief it’s that there’s less need for constant precaution.

“I don’t think either of us ever ordered a coffee with our real name,” she said, referring to the baristas who shout out coffee orders.

This secrecy is what bound Josh and his wife to his colleagues at the branch. “It was the only circle of friends who you could speak to without having to tell lies to, or at the very least limit the truth to,” she said. “Because to keep safe you have to be secretive.”

Another casualty of this secrecy is the award ceremonies. For years they were held in a small room with just a few high-ranking cops, rather than the parade ground. “I always thought that was really sad,” said Andy MacFarlane, the former operative, who earned several awards during his career. “I would have loved my mum and dad to have been there when I got an award, or my kids. But because of the nature of the job, you didn’t get celebrated.”

But this is no longer the case. According to Henry, the branch’s commander, these rules have since been relaxed. The room is still small, and the people within are still mostly ageing, very senior police, but a small selection of civilians can now attend, too. It’s a small consolation for a life of difficult service.

“People like Josh performed exceptional duties for the people of NSW,” Henry said.

“And a true measure of their success is that you don’t know who they are.”

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发表于 2019-6-3 00:27 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 猫儿不笨 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 猫儿不笨 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Hetbert 发表于 2019-6-2 23:20
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-day-lin-family-killer-robert-xie-finally-co ...

垃圾广告网站也有简要转载
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发表于 2019-6-3 00:33 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-6-2 23:27
垃圾广告网站也有简要转载

是啊。

我只是很奇怪,按照卧底所说的,所有监听对话的的警察听到谢说 I did it都震惊了。

难怪谢和Kathy都认为警方在陷害谢,真的是被卧底骗过啊。
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发表于 2019-6-3 00:38 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 Hetbert 于 2019-6-3 00:05 编辑
猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-6-2 23:27
垃圾广告网站也有简要转载


有人出版了一本专门讲冤案的书,就有林家血案的例子。

提到了林家死者尸体解剖胃食物消化的情况和膀胱的尿容量显示血案发生在凌晨两点以前,那时候谢还在家上网。

UNDER SCRUTINY:
ROBERT XIE – NSW


Robert Xie

Robert Xie was convicted of the brutal murder of 5 members of the Lin family at Epping, Sydney, July 18, 2009, including Min Lin and Terry Lin. Autopsy details on their bladder and stomach contents were not revealed to the jury. The autopsies suggest the murders took place before 2am, when Xie was still at his home computer (not contested). And the motive ascribed to him is risible to the Chinese. My upcoming book, No Crime, Much Punishment (Wilkinson Publishing) offers a terrifying alternative … The DNA evidence is also dud. An appeal hearing is scheduled for late 2019

https://wrongfulconvictionsrepor ... nvictions-snapshot/

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发表于 2019-6-3 00:48 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 猫儿不笨 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 猫儿不笨 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Hetbert 发表于 2019-6-2 23:33
是啊。

我只是很奇怪,按照卧底所说的,所有监听对话的的警察听到谢说 I did it都震惊了。

这件事新闻报道过,但在法官Fullerton的判决小结里没有被提到过
很明显法庭没有接受这个信息作为上庭证据
不是因为根本不像这篇报道描述的那样确切,就是逻辑上太明显是假证据了。谢不可能对任何人承认他杀人了
“I did it, I did it,I did it!”, 即使真的录下了音,为什么没有前后内容? 他指的到底是什么?

这报道说这段故事是他们一个连载节目的第四集,不知为何选择在这时候发表
我估计是报社为了抢眼球
因为上诉法庭里面没有陪审员,没什么好造势的
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发表于 2019-6-3 01:12 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 Hetbert 于 2019-6-3 00:31 编辑

还有一条,在哈佛法律研究上发表的文章,讲的True Allele DNA 分析概率算法的缺陷。

https://jolt.law.harvard.edu/ass ... 31HarvJLTech275.pdf

While likelihood ratios are a mathematically sound concept, their application requires making a set of assumptions about DNA profiles that require empirical testing. Errors in the assumptions can lead to errors in the results. To establish validity with a range of parameters, it is thus important to undertake empirical
testing with a variety of samples in the relevant range.

Varying assumptions about DNA profiles can produce crucial differences in interpreting results. Different programs incorporate subtly different choices into their algorithms about how to interpret data, which can yield different results when analyzing the exact same complex mixture. For example, an error in determining how many individuals’ DNA were present within a mixture could have rippling effects through subsequent stages of analysis, affecting decisions about differentiating signal from noise and distinguishing which DNA came from which individual. Differences in assumptions about how to adjust for different quantities of DNA or how to evaluate whether the people in a mixture were related could also impact the ultimate results. Due to a lack of comparative studies, the exact nature of these potential differences based
on programs’ varying assumptions remains unclear.

我当初讲的污渍91的True Allele的问题就是,做出的统计假设这是四人或者五人的DNA混合,得出了天文数字的可能性倍数。

到底是几人的DNA混合,检方自己的法医专家意见都不一致。

我感觉就是Mark Tadeshi 检察官Evidence Shopping,根据他的需要做出的统计假设,得出他想要的结果,因为如果是两人DNA混合或者三人DNA混合,都不能用来定罪,Stain 91必须是四名或者五名死者的DNA的统计假设,才能证明检方所谓的谢是独狼杀手的故事版本。

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发表于 2019-6-3 01:16 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 猫儿不笨 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 猫儿不笨 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 猫儿不笨 于 2019-6-3 18:48 编辑
Hetbert 发表于 2019-6-2 23:38
有人出版了一本专门讲冤案的书,就有邻家血案的例子。

提到了邻家死者尸体解剖胃食物消化的情况和膀胱的 ...


这本书令人振奋
其实还有更硬的证据
我被告诫不在这里说

忍不住,我可以说一点,大家熟知的V1证据的作者,手纹专家Bush在这个证据在三审时当庭受到另一非手纹专家的另一警官对V1证据样本可靠性的质疑之后,又做了书面补充报告,重复指出V1样品不但清楚可靠没有被undermined,而且能够被确定是来自一个人的手部的小鱼际肌,或者足部,而不是手指。总共有三份报告,一次比一次措辞强硬和清楚。但5个受害者和谢联斌的足手纹都对不上,足手纹档案库里也对不上。那应该就属于并非谢联斌的真凶了

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发表于 2019-6-3 01:21 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2019-6-3 00:16
这本书令人振奋
其实还有更硬的证据
我被告诫不在这里说

指纹专家证据,胃和膀胱的法医报告给出的作案时间,再加上True Allele的未必可靠的统计学假设,上诉的确有一拼。

发表于 2019-6-3 01:25 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 猫儿不笨 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 猫儿不笨 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Hetbert 发表于 2019-6-3 00:12
还有一条,在哈佛法律研究上发表的文章,讲的True Allele DNA 分析概率算法的缺陷。

https://jolt.law.har ...

Tedeschi 的确是evidence shopping
从一开始NSW DNA报告,到后来的新西兰的,英国的,他都不合意。为什么?凭什么?
然后他亲自搭上了True Allele,而后者不公开其code,也就是外人无法查证那结论真假。。。

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