Salary Packaging-- Associate Lease, 给simonwang 同学交作业

simonwang

首先说明一下我单位算是charity，package里含有那个固定的home loan16k和额外的meal & entertainment （每年金额不等，我一般收集全年的发票，等到3月份一次性计算再放到下一年用）

What I will suggest to do, before salary packaging a car, is to maximise meal entertainment and entertainment facility leasing. Nothing gets better than these two items for you.

Meal entertainment includes:
•        food and drink at a wedding, 21st birthday party, engagement party, or similar
•        restaurant meals (dine-in only)

Meal entertainment does not include:
•        general groceries for day to day needs/supermarket bills
•        sporting tickets and theatre tickets
•        takeaway meals

Entertainment facility leasing expenses include:
•        hiring a function room, reception centre for a wedding or other party
•        hiring of a marquee for a wedding or other party
•        hiring of holiday accommodation, such as hotel room, motel room, serviced apartment, cabins, caravan
•        hiring of a yacht or other vessel in its entirety for a holiday or social event
•        cruises – where the costs cannot be separated, otherwise, just the accommodation component

Entertainment facility leasing expenses do not include:
•        the cost of air travel
•        purchase of a holiday home or time share units
•        golf or other memberships
•        incidental costs incurred in a hotel or similar e.g. dry cleaning, movies, phone calls etc

Note that providing an all-inclusive holiday package to an employee that includes flights, meals and the hire or lease of holiday accommodation for the one undissected cost will be a single benefit whose taxable value is at least partly attributable to entertainment facility leasing expenses. This means the whole of the cost can be salary packaged as an entertainment facility leasing expense. However, if the cost can be dissected into its components, only the qualifying components can be packaged.
Also note that you can salary package meal entertainment and entertainment facility leasing expenses paid overseas!

这两天Email了我们单位外包做salary package的公司，他们说可以做associate lease，只要我爸妈去注册一个abn，不需要注册GST（细节我还没看明白）。如果我买一个二手车在20k左右，做associate lease每年大约是4k租车费用，同时我的home loan就要减少4k。

The home loan you packaged as Full FBT item must be reduced but not because of the leasing cost of 4k. Taxable value of a car fringe benefit is $20,000 * 20% (statutory rate if mileage under 25000km) = $4,000. Therefore, if the leasing cost is $10,000, your home loan package is still reduced by $4,000.

然后车子的其他支出是on top of 16k的。如果我每年保险rego汽油保养费用加起来是4k，就相当于可以多4k的免税额度了（我们的salary package是外包给专业公司做，这些支出就靠tax invoice 来claim，没有指定地点或者用卡的，没有上限）。很高兴看到前面帖子说这种lease可以一年一年签。如果一下子要签3年很难说以后双方收入情况有什么变化啊。

That is correct, the leasing cost and running cost are exempt form FBT, the FBT taxable value for Car benefit is calculated as I showed above.

另外一种他们也提到，就是买新车最好做novated lease，这样就不用支付GST方面的费用。虽然以我的预算，很难买新车的，个人也觉得没有必要买全新的，不过很想知道一般20-25k拿下的新车，包含GST之类的费用有多少呢？

You can use the calculators on those salary packaging providers website. And I mentioned before, novated lease is more for new car, associate lease is more for transferring income to lower income earner and for owned car.

novated我们很多同事去打听过，结果没有一个人这么做了，很多人都是觉得贷款利息高还款方式死板（从房贷里取钱方便且利息低），并且租约到期之后怎么处理比较麻烦。对很多人来说要整出这么复杂的合同（关系到payroll，外包公司，finance机构，卖车的地方），而且有工作合同变化，车子使用变化等不稳定因素。算下来大约省的钱不算很多（我们基层员工收入40-70k，本来税率就不高）

This is THE most common misunderstanding about novated lease. They try to compare the interest rate from mortgage or from the dealer such as Nissan 1% deal, against novate lease interest around 7%. But they didn’t realise the former repayment is via post tax income whilst the later one is via pre tax income. The formal one also has no GST refund, no fleet discount, running cost also paid by post tax income. I’ve set up a comparison and found out even you pay no interest, salary packaging is still better off in most of cases.

Sure the novated lease takes some paperwork, but there is no free lunch, right. And it’s personal choice whether few thousand dollars count.

XR8

感觉AL适合家里人没有工作的。。。不然37C税的人转给30C的人只省下7C。。没收入的人加上这笔钱也能有TAX OFFSET拿回来，超值啊

Interest rate我觉得是关键，像现在NISSAN 那个1%Finance，Salary Packaging几乎没有什么优势可言
还要考虑中途换工作。。。哎。。我自己就是例子。。旧的钱都2个月了还没退回来，每个月ADMIN照扣，新的公司用的PACKAGING公司收的ADMIN FEE是旧的公司2倍多，还不支持ECM，每年还要交FBT。。。到底值不值真的不是开始就能算出来的，计划永远赶不上变化

fengqingyang

mark

chujiqiu

Mark

Siva

非常感谢Simon帮我具体分析，明天分数回来了补上
entertainment部分claim起来确实是最简单容易的，但是每年也就那些发票。我很多同事都靠一次wedding全年免税，问题是就算能免税我也花不起这么多银子啊。刚确认过overseas的发票也能用，我后悔上次回国没把吃饭的发票带来。下次回国随便谁家请客发票都给我留下
很多local同事都是懒得计算那些细节东西，觉得折腾起来太麻烦，宁可简单一次性把车搞定。甚至我们单位最简单的salary package政策，都有人懒得弄发票！我知道这个政策之后研究了两周，用一个月时间搞定，他们犹豫就犹豫了三个月，想开始弄了再收集材料又一个月。天啊，我真想不通他们什么脑子，我天天催他们两人赶快申请。直到payslip把现金发下来的时候，他们才感觉的到差别
哎，我就是那种工资不高，但是很想把每一分税都认真计算过的人，交税高了影响我加班的积极性啊。
现在开的车太老，随时可能需要换车，就算这车没出意外，明年也必须下手买车了。提前先考虑好买什么车，怎么买。目前在看falcon烧GAS的车型。同事从car sale买了一辆2007年的，15k左右，按购买价的20%就只有3k；我爸倾向于买一个小型日本车，我感觉新车和三五年新的差价不很大。如果买这类车子，说不定就买全新或者demo。
现在要计算一下细节，novated leasing的benifit我大致知道，如果买新车一定用它。associate lease的benifit要和dependent - Parents的tax offset比较一下，毕竟tax off set一年一个人也有一千多

Siva

原帖由 XR8 于 2012-7-13 22:32 发表
感觉AL适合家里人没有工作的。。。不然37C税的人转给30C的人只省下7C。。没收入的人加上这笔钱也能有TAX OFFSET拿回来，超值啊

Interest rate我觉得是关键，像现在NISSAN 那个1%Finance，Salary Packaging几乎没有什么优 ...

难道做novated lease有额外的admin 费用？我得跟我们用的那个外包公司确认一下！我记得每签订/变更一次salary package的费用是110刀，难道这个租车合同不是算在一起的？

XR8

原帖由 Siva 于 2012-7-13 23:07 发表

难道做novated lease有额外的admin 费用？我得跟我们用的那个外包公司确认一下！我记得每签订/变更一次salary package的费用是110刀，难道这个租车合同不是算在一起的？

不收管理费人家赚什么？
我以前公司每个月20左右，新公司45一个月。。因为是带着LEASE换工作而且新公司只支持这一家PACKAGING公司，没有选择余地，明知被宰也要做呀不然自己用POST TAX薪水交10.9%的利息不赔大发了？

做NOVATED LEASE省钱3个必不可少条件
1，车越便宜越好 2，个人税率越高越好 3，公司支持的PACKAGING公司越多越好有砍价余地，包括车价，利息，是否可以自己修车换轮胎然后找他报销还是必须去他指定的地方

如果正好喜欢尼桑的朋友，个人税率又低于37%，直接照足迹车价宝典砍到最低，上2.7%Finance (1% 应该拿不到）绝对比NOVATED LEASE划算
别的牌子要CASE BY CASE算账了，呵呵

Siva

可能是因为我们单位员工总数比较庞大，他们一个人一年收110刀，总体收益也蛮客观的吧。下周问问看作car lease会不会有额外收费

simonwang

原帖由 XR8 于 2012-7-13 22:32 发表
感觉AL适合家里人没有工作的。。。不然37C税的人转给30C的人只省下7C。。没收入的人加上这笔钱也能有TAX OFFSET拿回来，超值啊

Interest rate我觉得是关键，像现在NISSAN 那个1%Finance，Salary Packaging几乎没有什么优 ...

前面提到过，您这个观点是常见的误解，可您似乎不信，这样吧，下面举个简化的例子：

假设dealer提供无息贷款0%，比您这1%的贷款好吧？对比Salary packaging 8%贷款利率，车价$33,000含GST。保险什么的都算便宜的，每年这车也几乎不怎么开。买车人年薪在5万左右吧。

项目	无息贷款	Salary Packaging
年限	2年	2年
残值55%	$18,150	$18,150
年名义还款额	($33,000-$18,150)/2年=$7,425	$8,590
保险	$700	$700
牌照	$600	$600
维护	$300	$300
汽油	$550	$550
运营费用合计	$2,150	$2,150
年总费用	$9,575	$10,740
FBT taxable value	$0	$33000*20%=$6,600
总费用税前收入支付部分	$0	$10,740-$6,600=$4,140
GST返还	$0	$4,140/11=$376
总费用净税前收入支付部分	$0	$4,140-$376=$3,764
总费用税后收入支付部分	$9,575	$6,600
总费用折合税前收入	$9,575/(1-34%)=$14,508	$6,600/(1-34%)+$3,764=13,764

以上的例子只是简化版，为了方便起见，其实还有一些参考的变量。而且运营成本估算很低，估计极少有人一年汽油只花$550，还没有预算车胎什么的。一旦运营费用上去，salary packaging就更划算了。更别说有多少免息贷款的。如果只租一年，salary packaging的优势更大了。

这里只是想告诉这位，别再单纯想当然之比较利率哦。需要继续深入探讨，我很乐意帮忙。

simonwang

还要说几句，您雇主用的公司不给力，不让ECM，的确很不好，我猜是NLC之类的，光顾挣钱，其实全然不懂FBT的公司，可您不能说是Salary packaging不好啊，是您雇主遇人不淑了！

而且您还提到了Tax Offset， 看来是内行，这可是salary packaging才能有的好处，上面我举的例子里无息贷款里您可是蹦子没有啊！可salary packaging 您的应税收入就少了$3,764，可以多拿些Offset，这我还不算呢。别再说FBT和salary packaging不好了，成不？

simonwang

不收管理费人家赚什么？

您公司选的这管理费真贵，不过人家还真不是靠管理费赚钱的，至少不全靠这个

我以前公司每个月20左右，新公司45一个月。。因为是带着LEASE换工作而且新公司只支持这一家PACKAGING公司，没有选择余地，明知被宰也要做呀不然自己用POST TAX薪水交10.9%的利息不赔大发了？

利息也忒高了，您该去投诉，现在Novate lease还收10.9%利息，简直打劫。新车18k以上，一般利率不超过8%。您还是去投诉吧！

做NOVATED LEASE省钱3个必不可少条件
1，车越便宜越好 2，个人税率越高越好 3，公司支持的PACKAGING公司越多越好有砍价余地，包括车价，利息，是否可以自己修车换轮胎然后找他报销还是必须去他指定的地方

您这前两个观点听上去合理，我在其他帖子也反驳过了。您不能拿自己和别人比啊，人家高收入租大奔能省个一万，我收入低一点租个现代一年省一千，可人家比我多省管我嘛事啊？我只要知道和直接买车或租车，salary packaging的确能省钱就是了，别拿几千块不当钱啊。您得在同样收入，同样的车，不同购买方式之间的比较才是合理的

您的第三点更得怪您雇主用的公司了，真还没见过硬性规定去指定地方的。是不是NLC？？？改明儿我找他们老板谈谈，忒黑了。用reimbursement方法的话，他们怎么能管你上哪里修车换胎啊！

如果正好喜欢尼桑的朋友，个人税率又低于37%，直接照足迹车价宝典砍到最低，上2.7%Finance (1% 应该拿不到）绝对比NOVATED LEASE划算

这条就不反驳了，上面无息贷款都给PK掉了，您就别提2.7%绝对划算了哦！

[ 本帖最后由 simonwang 于 2012-7-14 21:38 编辑 ]

Siva

我主要已经package了home loan，所以车价的20%对它有影响。
这个车价和实际租车费用相比，是怎么计算出来的呢？
假设我买的是二手车，车价16k，租约3年，原始salary package是16k的房贷，年薪需要纳税的部分是30%税率
另外一个问题，如果是novated lease，3年租约到了之后怎么处理这车？必须卖掉还是我可以自己买下？这时候的价值怎么计算？

simonwang

FBT statutory rate渐渐会变为20%。具体租车费要看利率了。因为残值是ATO规定好的，决定因素就是利率了。差别还不小呢。

到期后可以支付残值，或者续租，支付残值也可以通过把车卖掉后多退少补来实现。

Siva

利率是由这个代理salary package的公司决定的吗？我不能任意找一家？

simonwang

原帖由 Siva 于 2012-7-15 22:27 发表
利率是由这个代理salary package的公司决定的吗？我不能任意找一家？

这取决于你雇主了，如果合同规定用哪家，利率就基本没得谈了。

XR8

原帖由 simonwang 于 2012-7-14 21:24 发表
还要说几句，您雇主用的公司不给力，不让ECM，的确很不好，我猜是NLC之类的，光顾挣钱，其实全然不懂FBT的公司，可您不能说是Salary packaging不好啊，是您雇主遇人不淑了！

而且您还提到了Tax Offset， 看来是内行，这可是salary packagi ...

从来就没说packaging不好，不然我自己也不会做。
我的第三点就说了，公司支持哪家，甚至那几家packaging公司很重要，我每月付45很操蛋，可我没得选。公司只支持一家，take it or leave it... 我又是中途换工作，就这么惨,必须挨宰，不支持ECM，我也没得选。。10.9利息也不是我能选的，上个工作公司也只支持一家packaging公司，利息就这么高，不做拉倒。。。


我点背，是个例，呵呵。。。我只想告诉正在考虑的朋友，NOVATED LEASE有利有弊，划算不划算绝对是要CASE BY CASE的，每个人TAX RATE不同，想买的车型不同，packaging公司不同，Finance公司不同，开得公里数不同，中途有没有可能换工作？ 新工作支不支持packaging? 一个变量变了，全部对比都要变。所有纸上计算，对比都是在不换工作，同样购买价格来计算的，一般自己购买，都能讲价好几千，packaging讲价完全看公司，又一个变量。。。请问我这样说还算reasonable吗？

sche7172

家里已经买了新车，老公贷款，老婆不工作，就是车子是在老公名下，怎么办呢？能转移名字不？
车子贵，q7,老公工资15万package ,这样可以做AL么？有没有对车的限制？
正好老公要换新工作了，可以package了
大家帮帮忙看这样能大概省多少税？
什么都不懂我是，看了上面的回复也不是很明白，老公有从来不管省税问题
头大啊慢慢学，谢谢大家懂的回我下

simonwang

You can try to discuss with HR as what they have in place is actually costing the employee instead of saving them money.

You did say "绝对比NOVATED LEASE划算", and what I tried to show is never say never.

simonwang

原帖由 sche7172 于 2012-7-17 00:21 发表
家里已经买了新车，老公贷款，老婆不工作，就是车子是在老公名下，怎么办呢？能转移名字不？
车子贵，q7,老公工资15万package ,这样可以做AL么？有没有对车的限制？
正好老公要换新工作了，可以package了
大家帮帮忙看这样能大概省多少税？
什么都不懂我是，看了上面的回复也不是很明白，老公有从来不管省税问题
头大啊慢慢学，谢谢大家懂的回我下

Must be transferred to under your name, it is free of stamp duty so only small amount of transfer fee.

It is a typical Associate Lease case, however, your husband needs to check with his employer whether they allow luxury car to be salary packaged.

Can't tell how much your husband can save exactly as no information of how you use the car, do you or your husband have any other income, annual mileage, etc. But it should be easily thousands of dollars.

Siva

昨天要了一个quote，如果是2010年的falcon，18k购买价租约3年每年公里数7000km以上：
An $18k vehicle works out at $229 per fortnight from your take home pay.  This includes all running costs.  You would also have $12,343 of your threshold left for your home loan
发来的信息很长，我稍微copy一些些

Key Benefits to You:

    * Save up to 10% off the purchase price of the vehicle
    * Lease Payments and Running Costs are paid pre-tax, therefore reducing your annual taxable income while still having the benefit of a new car.
    * Save 10% off all running costs due to GST savings.

The only requirements as to the vehicles that you can purchase are as follows:

    * Must not be a commercial vehicle. This is any utility vehicle that exceeds a 1 ton carrying capacity or any vehicle that carries 9 or more passengers.
    * Cars that have been imported, for example grey imports such as Supras, Skylines etc, even if they have been complied. All vehicles must have been released in Australia as brand new cars at some stage.
    * 2nd hand vehicles are fine, they just need to be under 8 years old by the end of the nominated lease term.

You have 2 Options regarding your vehicle selection:

1. Source your own vehicle from the dealership of your choice. You can put a deposit down on the vehicle to secure the car if the dealer requires this to secure the purchase and also if he asks you to sign any contracts make sure you sign them subject to finance and novated lease approval.

2. We provide a vehicle sourcing service called Motorsearch. This is where we can help you find the vehicle you are looking for, get a sharp price, and often save you thousands on the purchase price of your new car. If you would like to take advantage of this service please let me know so I can have Shaun contact you and discuss what you are looking for and help you on your way to your next car.

In regards to the management of the running costs:

    * Fuel/Servicing/Tyres – These expenses can be paid for in 2 ways.  You can either use a expense card called a Motorpass Card and where it is accepted you can charge it to the card and we will pay the account each month from your salary deductions. If you would like to obtain more information such as outlets and locations where the card is accepted, you can view their website www.motorpass.com.au.  Alternatively there is the reimbursement method where you hold onto your receipts and submit them to us for reimbursement from your salary packaging account into your nominated bank account.
    * Insurance - You have a few options also for this, you can either allow us to supply this for you or you can source your own. If you do source your own it needs to be paid upfront and then be reimbursed through your package once it has been set up. This can take several paycycles until your salary deductions accumulate so there are enough available funds in the packaging account to cover it.
    * Registration - can only be done via the reimbursement method.



We reconcile your salary package account every April at the end of the FBT year. Any unspent annual amounts get refunded back to you through your payroll.  What we put on the quote is only a guide based on the vehicle and kilometres and you can change these if you wish, just let me know.

The quotation includes a new product called Remunerator Total Protection which involves a policy for ‘Involuntary Unemployment Insurance’ and ‘Tyre and Rim Insurance’ which is added to the lease payments therefore nothing payable upfront for this benefit. We also offer an extension of the manufacturer's warranty for very little extra from your take home pay adding value to your vehicle both now & at the end of the lease with a transferable extended warranty.
×××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××
另外有一个估价单，按照底薪50k计算的，我还没研究彻底，明天再计算一下三年需要支付的总数，另外要预估一下我如果自己买车用三年一共是多少钱，因为novated lease需要多付出的部分和节约的税收比较一下
Your New Car Finance Details
Amount Financed (Purchase Price less GST) $16,364
Term in Months 36
Number of Finance Lease Payments 35
Remunerator Total Protection $1,940
Residual (inc. GST) $8,438
Annual Car Expenses
Finance Lease Payment $5,942
Management Fee $275(including GST)（这个为什么不能免除GST呢）
Registration $690
Fringe Benefit Tax (if any) $0
CTP (in NSW only)
Insurance $750
Fuel $1,500
Maintenance, tyres, etc $750
Less GST Credit $871（这是怎么计算的？）
You will have $12,343 left to package general expenses within the threshold.

[ 本帖最后由 Siva 于 2012-7-17 22:53 编辑 ]

Siva

不好意思，前面忘记说了，这个是按novated lease计算的。等我弄清楚这个，再算一个associate lease的

ToT

长知识

jands

Mark

simonwang

Don't use Motorpass, use your own credit card to get some points and avoid Motorpass fee. If they offer Caltex Fleet Card, you can consider as it offers services at great discount.

Few questions to ask Remunerator:

1. What is the Total Protection $1,940? Extended warranty or something else? Per year
2. What is the residual value percentage they use for 3 years?
3. What is the lease interest rate and can you get own finance if their rate is excessive?
4. Is there any fees for your whole package, any charge for alteration, and the charge is per FBT year, financial year or package year?

They should add everything inclusive GST first and then apply the GST refund to work out the salary deduction amount. Can't tell why they have GST Credit $871 as you haven't got the GST amount for all listed costs. I guess:

$1940/3 years = $646.67
+Finance Lease Payment $5,942
+Insurance $750
+Fuel $1,500
+Maintenance, tyres, etc $750
= $9,588.67
/11
=$871.69

But no reason they don't count the GST on the management fee, unless they request your employer to pass it on with your other package items.

Siva

谢谢Simon点评。这两天上班忙，没时间打电话问问他们，估计又是写Email了。
在前面这个Email正文里还有一部分信息估计有用(我之前单单记得copy PDF附件上的):
we organise the finance for you (normally through BMW Finance – they are normally the most competitive, don’t require a document fee upfront, and don’t charge exit fees), and there is another fee.  You’ll see it under Annual Car Expenses in the attached quote, and it’s all included.

An $18k vehicle works out at $229 per fortnight from your take home pay.  This includes all running costs.  You would also have $12,343 of your threshold left for your home loan, and it won’t affect your Meals and Entertainment.

BMW的利息怎样？
另外，我当时说18k的车，是指10年的二手车，会不会他们认为是全新的车子，所以看上去novated lease的优惠更好？
具体怎么折旧没有看到说明，先把有疑问的一条条写出来，等有空要专门约个时间找她面谈。

simonwang

Few questions to ask Remunerator:

1. What is the Total Protection $1,940? Extended warranty or something else? Per year
2. What is the residual value percentage they use for 3 years?
3. What is the lease interest rate and can you get own finance if their rate is excessive?
4. Is there any fees for your whole package, any charge for alteration, and the charge is per FBT year, financial year or package year?
5. Can you get own finance instead of BMW Finance?

raaj

原帖由 Siva 于 2012-7-13 23:04 发表
非常感谢Simon帮我具体分析，明天分数回来了补上
entertainment部分claim起来确实是最简单容易的，但是每年也就那些发票。我很多同事都靠一次wedding全年免税，问题是就算能免税我也花不起这么多银子啊。刚确认过overseas ...

但回国随便谁家请客他们都要发票,我都要不了, 我们是少交,国内的是免费,发票还是他们要划算,我回国吃饭的发票都带来了,但看
公司规定好像一定要用信用卡,国内很多地方不能用国外信用卡,能用的汇率也不好,1:6 (5月份),只能用人民币,不知能不能claim.

raaj

原帖由 Siva 于 2012-7-13 23:04 发表
非常感谢Simon帮我具体分析，明天分数回来了补上
entertainment部分claim起来确实是最简单容易的，但是每年也就那些发票。我很多同事都靠一次wedding全年免税，问题是就算能免税我也花不起这么多银子啊。刚确认过overseas ...

associate lease的benifit要和dependent - Parents的tax offset比较一下，毕竟tax off set一年一个人也有一千多

就是用了associate lease的benifit, 就不能有dependent - Parents的tax offset, 因为他们有收入了?

Siva

父母如果有收入，tax offset会减少。超过一定金额之后就没有了。
现在我只能看2011-2012财年的calculator，不知道13年怎样。
下一年是18k免税额度，如果low-income tax offset没有变化，按照我的廉价工资收入，连租车都不用package进去都基本免税了

raaj

不用纠结了,研究了Simonwang的贴, 好像2013年dependent - Parents的tax offset 没了, 不知有没有理解错了,

Under the proposed changes, these offsets will now only be allowed where the individual concerned is generally unable to work due to carer obligation or disability.