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楼主:michael.jyu

[个人所得税] 如何理解澳大利亚税务居民?-Resident of Australia for income tax purposes [复制链接]

发表于 2012-12-5 13:09 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 3IX37 于 2012-12-5 14:57 编辑
radar1016 发表于 2012-12-5 12:35
But the purpose of the question is to ask whether I am an au tax resident in that circumstance

H ...


I appreciate your frustration. I understand you meant to ask whether you are an Au resident, but instead you asked whether your foreign income should be taxable or not. But again there is not enough information in your question for anyone to make an absolute conclusion. beside, resident topic is alway controversial. please tolerate a bit ambiguity of me :)

Like i tried to explained earlier, the right questions you should have asked yourself are, before you ask others to determine your residency and tax treatment for your foreign income:

- do you have a permanent place of abode overseas?
- are you a tax resident in that jurisdiction under their domestic tax law?
- is that country a tax treaty country?

Furthermore, in your last question, which wasn't numbered, that was under a totally different scenario, and that question to me was more related to the tax treatment of your potential rent income, which totally depends on your residency for tax purpose. Regardlessly, the rental income will be taxed in Au as it is Au source income. The difference here is whether it would be taxed under a resident rate or foreign resident rate.

I hope this clarify things a bit.


PS. I would never say this to you, if you were my client. But let's be honest. Pls be specific what you wanna ask and ask a right question. Pls remember this A wrong question would only lead to a wrong answer. :)  Sorry, i m not trying to be short, but honest and this is all from my good will. please don't get offended. :)
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发表于 2012-12-5 13:30 |显示全部楼层
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谢谢楼上2位的解答。

请问由非纳税居民转纳税居民怎么操作?是否需要在ATO网上更改呢?
在ATO是有税号的,理论上应该沿用同一个税号吧?

发表于 2012-12-5 14:31 |显示全部楼层
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jenny_mel 发表于 2012-12-5 13:30
谢谢楼上2位的解答。

请问由非纳税居民转纳税居民怎么操作?是否需要在ATO网上更改呢?

This is self assessed on a year by year basis and is reported through your tax return.
联系方式
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=622814

发表于 2012-12-5 20:06 |显示全部楼层
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3IX37 发表于 2012-12-5 14:09
I appreciate your frustration. I understand you meant to ask whether you are an Au resident, but i ...


不是我问的不specific 而是你根本读不懂我的问题

问我的海外收入是否需要在澳洲缴税     你却回答  如果你是Au tax resident, bla bla……    (都已经是Au tax resident 了, 还需要问这个问题吗?)


最后一个问题 就是换一种情况(在澳洲有房产的情况下)  如何对之前的答案产生影响。

很感谢你的耐心回答,但是你的答案没有任何帮助 只是把common knowledge重复了一遍而已

I would never pay you, if you were my accountant. But let's be honest, please be sensitive to the question you have been asked.  :)  
矢勤矢勇,必信必忠。一心一德,贯彻始终。

发表于 2012-12-5 20:16 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 michael.jyu 于 2012-12-5 21:21 编辑
radar1016 发表于 2012-12-5 12:08
your answers to 1 and 3 are quite self contradictory

why am I au tax resident in Q1 and non au t ...


补充:

"请教楼主几个问题

澳籍,在海外工作3~5年,期间不回澳洲居住

1. 在海外的收入是否要每年向澳洲政府缴税?

2. 如果不需要,3~5年海外工作结束后,带着积蓄回澳洲,是否应当向澳洲政府缴税?"

根据提供的基本情况, 应用到statutory law上的测试中, 看起来像非税法居民, a) 不居住在澳洲, b) 一个财政年在澳时间少于183天, c) 假设没有养老金 (如果有, 情况就比较明朗了). 如我在#8楼所说, 如果情况复杂(模棱两可)时, 需要同时运用case law (common law). (注: statutory law 和 case law在实际运用中是互补的).

请教一下个问题, 你在海外工作3-5年后, 是不是还是要回澳洲居住 (take up residency in Australia)?

如果是, 如公司外派, 外派项目完成或工作完成后你还是打算回澳洲, 基本可以说是税务居民. (参考下面案例, 注意第三个案例的结果是非税务居民).

An Australian resident employee of a mining company was transferred overseas for a temporary work assignment for a period of 2 years and intended to return to Australia at the end of that period. The purpose of the assignment was for the employee to gain wider work experience. The employee was initially accompanied by his wife and children but the children returned to Australia to continue their schooling. The employee spent his annual holiday in Australia. During his absence from Australia he rented out his home and maintained bank accounts in Australia. He made no investments in the overseas country and remitted all money in excess of living requirements to Australia for investment. In those circumstances the taxpayer was not considered to be a resident of Australia under the ordinary meaning of the word "resident" but was considered to be a resident under the extended definition of that term.

Result: resident.

A bank officer was posted from Australia to the New Hebrides for 2 years only and never intended to stay any longer. During his overseas posting he maintained bank accounts in Australia, into one of which family allowance payments continued to be made, and let his Australian home unfurnished. He was accompanied by his wife and children. His place of abode in the New Hebrides was considered to be temporary or transitory for two reasons. Firstly, he lived, by the bank's continuing permission, in a house leased by the bank in the New Hebrides. Secondly, having regard to the 2- year period of his appointment, the taxpayer's relationship with his place of abode in Port Vila lacked " a more enduring relationship" (see Applegate per Fisher J 79 ATC at p.4317; 9 ATR at pp 910-911) with the particular place of abode than that expected to exist where a person ordinarily resides there or has there his usual place of abode (Case Q68 83 ATC 343; Case 132 26 CTBR(NS) 913).

Result : resident.

An engineer was sent by his Australian employer to the Philippines on a project assignment for a minimum period of 3 to 4 years and he decided to relocate his family in the Philippines. In fact, the assignment was terminated after 2 years and the taxpayer returned to Australia. It was always his intention to return to Australia at the completion of the project. He retained his Australian home and rented it out. On arriving in the Philippines, the taxpayer and his family initially resided for short periods at a hotel and in an apartment. Later, he sub-leased a house which the family occupied until their return to Australia. Having regard to the nature and quality of his use of the place of abode in the Philippines, the taxpayer was considered to have established a permanent place of abode outside Australia (Case R92 84 ATC 615; Case 145 27 CTBR(NS) 1131).

Result : non-resident.

如果是不打算回澳洲居住或者说不清楚要离开澳洲多久 (如归国创业, 公司外派 - 指外派的时间你不清楚但是是长期的外派.) , 基本可以说是非税务居民.(参考下面案例).

A person who had just completed tertiary studies decided to leave Australia for an unspecified period of time to work in one overseas country to gain work experience. Before leaving she closed all bank accounts except for a 5-year interest bearing deposit. She had no established home in Australia and no spouse or children in Australia. While she was forced to return to Australia within 18 months due to an illness, she was considered to be a non-resident as it was her original intention to remain outside Australia for an unspecified period of time and she was considered to have a permanent place of abode in the overseas country.

Result: non-resident.

An engineer went to a developing country to manage an aid project. He received a salary supplement paid under an Australian Government assistance scheme. He expected to remain in the overseas country for 18 months and then to obtain a posting to manage a similar project in another developing country. He was considered to have a permanent place of abode in the overseas country and to be a non-resident of Australia. A different conclusion may have been reached if it had been his intention to return to Australia at the end of the first posting.

Result: non-resident.


"如果在澳洲有房产,然后去海外工作3~5年  结论会有不同吗?(在海外期间 房产出租,租金正常在澳洲报税 应当是按 non tax resident 税率计算吗?)"

有没有房产这不是决定性考虑因数, 税务局或法庭要综合考虑其他因数, 如#14楼主所说, 你的家人是不是在澳洲, 投资是不是在澳洲, 在澳洲有没有财产等等. 可以参考下面案例:

A businessman operating an import/export business spends over 6 months every year in the overseas country with which most of the business is carried out. His wife travels with him during the 6-month stay overseas. Their children, aged between 20 and 32, live in Australia. The businessman owns a home in Australia where he lives for just under 6 months each year and a home in the other country where he lives the rest of the time. He holds investments and other accounts in both countries. Because of the length of his stays in Australia, the conclusion was reached, having regard to the duration of his presence overseas and the lack of continuity of his presence overseas, that he had not established a permanent place of abode in the overseas country. This conclusion was supported by the extent of the durability of his association with Australia. In the absence of evidence that he had adopted a domicile of choice in the other country (for example, a migration visa to the other country), he was considered to be a resident of Australia and therefore subject to Australian income tax on all income derived by him.

Result: resident.

了解的那么多案例后, 不谨要问, 如何出证据让税务局或法院认可,认同你的'目的, 打算' (intention), 也不是那么简单!

讨论中所有案例来自TAXATION RULING NO. IT 2650.

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radar1016 + 5 感谢分享

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发表于 2012-12-5 21:14 |显示全部楼层
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radar1016 发表于 2012-12-5 21:41
非常感谢您的详尽回复。

可不可以这样说

单身 (或者全家一起,但均是澳籍) 去其他国家工作、生活,计划若干年后回到澳洲(具体多久完全未知)
不在澳洲期间 是作为 非 tax resident处理的?  每年的海外的收入是不需要向澳洲政府缴税的?  那这期间还需要每年向ATO报税吗?

即便是在澳洲有房产,也不影响 非 tax resident的判断? 只需要按照 non tax resident的税率 缴纳租金收入的所得税便可(negative gearing 是否仍然适用?)

决定举家迁回澳洲的时候  在海外期间积累的积蓄带回澳洲也不需要缴税的?

你的情况是不是税务居民, 我觉的我的分析已经比较清楚地回答了你的问题. 在往下说就是tax planning了, 其实看了那么多案例, 你自己也可以计划计划了. '家有家法', 我比较保守在公众论坛谈论tax planning. 如有其他同行愿意讨论, 我无法左右, 也不加评论. 不好意思!

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发表于 2012-12-6 13:22 |显示全部楼层
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radar1016 发表于 2012-12-5 20:06
不是我问的不specific 而是你根本读不懂我的问题

问我的海外收入是否需要在澳洲缴税     你却回答  如果 ...

发表于 2012-12-6 22:43 |显示全部楼层
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michael.jyu 发表于 2012-12-5 22:14
单身 (或者全家一起,但均是澳籍) 去其他国家工作、生活,计划若干年后回到澳洲(具体多久完全未知)
...

为什么做tax的人 都这么奇怪捏?

就是确认一下我的理解对不对,一个只需要用”对“ 或者 ”不对“ 回答就足够的问题 竟然就又变成 tax planning了


不过还是非常感谢您之前的回答
矢勤矢勇,必信必忠。一心一德,贯彻始终。

发表于 2012-12-7 10:54 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 3IX37 于 2012-12-7 11:00 编辑

this posted is deleted, please refer to Comment #40

发表于 2012-12-7 10:57 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 3IX37 于 2012-12-7 11:17 编辑
radar1016 发表于 2012-12-6 22:43
为什么做tax的人 都这么奇怪捏?

就是确认一下我的理解对不对,一个只需要用”对“ 或者 ”不对“ 回答 ...


This post is not only a response to comment #38, but also to the general public for some awareness i wish what could be brought up.

I do share some frustration of some people, as there is never a straight answer.

Unfortunately, Tax is not a math, it is legislative matter, it is a LAW. No single fact can be a decisive indicia and there would be never a straight "right or wrong" answer for any legal issue before a court decision is made. Having said that, even if there were a Tribunal Court or even a Federal court decision,  there is always a fair chance that decision would be overturned by the Hight Court.

No mention, in most cases presented like the one above, there is either not enough information or no clear indication of what the real question is, therefore no absolute conclusion would ever possibly be drawn.

Again, my suggestion for people seeking legal or accounting advices is that please think about what question you want to ask specifically, and what you wish to achieve before walking into an accounting firm or a law firm for assistance. Trust me a wrong question can not only lead a wrong answer, it would also cost you more money, as the service is charged by hour.

Having said that, communication is always a key. As a professional myself, in reality i would always ask clients more questions for getting more information to ensure what really the client needs. But in here, in this forum as  it is not a business environment, we are therefore all equal. So forgive my blunt honesty. Let me re-emphaise this, Only a respectful client would get a respectful advice, after all we all have to respect the law. Don't you agree? :)

发表于 2012-12-7 21:42 |显示全部楼层
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这个问题因为税收不同一直被人利用,部分ATO工作人员都弄不懂。
上次问了一个资深税务人员,他说因为是灰色地带被人利用:造成背包客等都自称是税务居民,其实这些背包客根本不能算税务居民。
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发表于 2012-12-8 09:34 |显示全部楼层
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alook 发表于 2012-12-7 21:42
这个问题因为税收不同一直被人利用,部分ATO工作人员都弄不懂。
上次问了一个资深税务人员,他说因为是灰色 ...

you might be right about this test has been abused by some people to some extend.

However, Backpacker can never be an Au tax resident merely because he or she has been in Au for more than 183 days. Don't forget there are another 2 conditions the person needs to meet before he or she satisfy the 183 days rule.

Generally, for a backpacker he or she would still maintain his or her usual place of abode oversea, and/or his or her intention of stay in Au cannot be proved as permanent by case laws.

Again because these tests are very subjective, they have been manipulated by some people. Like what i predicted in other post, with the major shrinking down of s.23AG (foreign employer income exemption), more resident cases are very much expected in court in soon future.  

发表于 2012-12-31 23:19 |显示全部楼层
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请教楼主这个问题,我仔细拜读了几位大师的文章2遍,还是不确定如下情况,请大家给分析下,谢谢:

请问如下情况,姐夫能算税务居民吗?我觉得不算。

1.PR,每年来澳洲几趟合计不超过90天,小孩和姐姐在这边。他由于英语不好,从没打算将来在这边长期居住,是姐姐一直坚持,才带着孩子在这边。好在有父母的支持。
2.姐夫给中国的公司在国内打工,有中国的养老保险。澳洲没有养老保险,只有MEDICARE.
3.在中国有房产长期居住但在姐姐名下。
4, 在澳洲没有生意,今年买了第2个小房子自住,以前的那个正打算明年卖掉因为实在吃不消贷款压力,但没卖之前只能算还有个投资房。
5 姐姐没有澳洲收入,小孩有拿牛奶金,其他福利没有拿过。

请大家给看看,多谢了!

发表于 2013-1-2 07:04 |显示全部楼层
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zhao1979200 发表于 2013-1-1 00:19
请教楼主这个问题,我仔细拜读了几位大师的文章2遍,还是不确定如下情况,请大家给分析下,谢谢:

请问如 ...

根据提供的情况,'姐夫'像是澳洲税务公民,首先他的主要家庭成员在澳洲生活,其次他有PR的身份,客观上就有常期在澳居留的权力,主观的说'姐夫'不想澳长期居住,我个人觉得税务局或法官会偏向考虑客观因素。

发表于 2013-1-2 08:22 |显示全部楼层
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michael.jyu 发表于 2013-1-2 08:04
根据提供的情况,'姐夫'像是澳洲税务公民,首先他的主要家庭成员在澳洲生活,其次他有PR的身份,客观上就 ...

谢谢!真早!

发表于 2013-2-14 12:10 |显示全部楼层
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谢谢分享
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2014年度奖章获得者

发表于 2013-2-14 12:12 |显示全部楼层
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很有用的帖子

发表于 2013-2-14 16:04 |显示全部楼层
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3IX37 发表于 2012-12-4 21:19
you remind me of an old joke about an interview for an accountant position.

the question was wha ...

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看到很多人的回答都很专业,但是这样说来,澳洲公民就算离开澳洲工作十年,都不能算非税务居民,因为他们迟早都会回到澳洲了,这样不如不要有这183天的规定。

有住在国内的配偶放弃澳洲身份的吗?

发表于 2013-3-21 11:28 |显示全部楼层
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lee2267 发表于 2012-12-3 22:21
一般的tr 考虑到 移民条例基本呆满 183 天。。所以按resident 算。。
至于国外收入---如果是做生意的tr。 ...

我想请问你如果父母准备办移民。那么拿到PR以后再给我或者他们自己账户上面打钱也算海外收入吗?或者他们以后把国内的房子买了也要交CGT吗?那这样移民干什么啊,感觉好纠结,谢谢
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发表于 2013-3-21 11:34 |显示全部楼层
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不是说要交cgt而是直接打钱解释麻烦。。
卖房的钱。。通过父母的 父母/兄弟姐妹 把钱打这边。。还是gift。。解释起来简单。。

发表于 2013-3-21 11:35 |显示全部楼层
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michael.jyu 发表于 2013-1-2 08:04
根据提供的情况,'姐夫'像是澳洲税务公民,首先他的主要家庭成员在澳洲生活,其次他有PR的身份,客观上就 ...

完全同意。。

发表于 2013-6-15 20:11 |显示全部楼层
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Tasha 发表于 2013-2-17 12:24
看到很多人的回答都很专业,但是这样说来,澳洲公民就算离开澳洲工作十年,都不能算非税务居民,因为他们迟 ...


看到很多人的回答都很专业,但是这样说来,澳洲公民就算离开澳洲工作十年,都不能算非税务居民,因为他们迟早都会回到澳洲了,这样不如不要有这183天的规定。
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这个问题要顶一下。有同样的疑问。希望专业人士能解答一下。

发表于 2013-6-15 21:39 |显示全部楼层
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春雪 发表于 2013-6-15 20:11
看到很多人的回答都很专业,但是这样说来,澳洲公民就算离开澳洲工作十年,都不能算非税务居民,因为他 ...

澳洲公民也有长居国外的 如果家庭,工作,主要投资都在国外, 澳洲没有保留住处, 没有短期回国的倾向 澳洲公民同样可以被定义为“税务意义上的非居民”

183days test针对的是在澳洲逗留的外来人士 例如海外学生如果满足这个test就是税务居民了 但不能说所有在该财政年度不在国内逗留超过大半时间的人都是非税务居民
联系方式
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=622814

发表于 2013-6-16 00:54 |显示全部楼层
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请问一下专家,我这种情况能成为“非澳洲税务居民”吗?

我们是PR,老公于去年6月登陆的,我和孩子10月份登陆,现居住在悉尼。现在我打算8月份带女儿回国,并且在中国呆6个月以上,老公则继续留在澳洲工作。

我们在澳洲刚买了一套房,还没住过去,申报的是投资房,在国内有两套以上房产。
假如我半年后再回来澳洲,那么2013-14这个财政年度,我可以不算澳洲税务居民吗?因为我想利用这段时间把国内的房产处理掉,然后把钱转来澳洲。

如果我在离开澳洲的时候通知ATO,我回中国居住了,不打算回来了。即使我6个月后又回来了,ATO也可以认定我主观上不想在澳洲居住而有助于2013-14财政年度成为澳洲非税务居民呢?

假如可以认定为非税务居民的话,我是否可以说财产是我作为非税务居民期间挣的,省得那些评估房子增值部分是什么时候获得的这些麻烦事呢?
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发表于 2013-6-26 14:50 |显示全部楼层
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请问820tr 在拿到pr前收到的国内父母打来的钱会被当成海外收入收税吗

发表于 2013-6-26 23:23 |显示全部楼层
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N77 发表于 2013-6-26 15:50
请问820tr 在拿到pr前收到的国内父母打来的钱会被当成海外收入收税吗

1.签证类别和税务居民是两个不同的概念。

2.国内父母打钱不属于海外收入,如果税务局问起来,那就要解释。如税务局要文件,就要提供相关材料来证明。

发表于 2013-6-26 23:33 |显示全部楼层
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好贴,学习。

发表于 2013-6-27 00:04 |显示全部楼层
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3IX37 发表于 2012-12-4 20:19
you remind me of an old joke about an interview for an accountant position.

the question was wha ...

Although it is a joke, but that is true.

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