关于建筑行业的疑惑～

overbridge

原帖由 tld128 于 2010-8-6 10:28 发表
刚刚跟公司的senior project architect聊天，问关于ground floor drainage的问题。

在sydney范围，boundary以内的，建筑师需要管，以前是可以一个大坡度，大约是5%（1：20）向外排水就行，现在要装地漏，把收集到的雨水等集中到stomewat ...

I see. :)

joelucie

现在要想single glazing full height 不能再通过BCA2010 glazing calculator了吧？

老猫晒太阳

原帖由 tld128 于 2010-8-6 10:28 发表
刚刚跟公司的senior project architect聊天，问关于ground floor drainage的问题。

在sydney范围，boundary以内的，建筑师需要管，以前是可以一个大坡度，大约是5%（1：20）向外排水就行，现在要装地漏，把收集到的雨水等集中到stomewat ...

嘿嘿，这些方法，好像我昨天就说过了。

joelucie

SOME SUSTAINABILITY NEWS READING.  THE LATEST
http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/archives/14779

tld128

© Atelier Jean Nouvel

A few years ago, Jean Nouvel unveiled his plans for two towers for Sydney City, and now, the project has just received approval.  Located on the site of a former brewery,  the towers – one 16 stories and the other 33 – are part of the 250,000 sqm development plan managed by Frasers Property.

More about the towers and more images after the break.

© Atelier Jean Nouvel

The towers will house 563 luxury apartments above a six level retail and recreation podium.  The eastern tower features  a dramatic heliostat installation, extending from the upper levels on a grand cantilever. The heliostat incorporates an innovative system of fixed and motorized mirrored panels designed to capture sunlight and redirect it into the retail atrium and onto the landscaped terraces.  At night the heliostat’s integrated lighting – designed by lighting artist Yann Kersale – will theatrically and colorfully illuminate the towers.

© Atelier Jean Nouvel

For the green facades, Nouvel collaborated with French artist and botanist Patrick Blanc.  Garden boxes and vertical wires incorporated into the loggias will wrap the towers in plant life, extending the central parkland  literally up the buildings.

via the messiah

In the images, the dozens of green gardens look chaotic and almost messy as they take over the façade, yet we’ll have to wait a few years to see what the project looks like built  - construction will begin in December.

© Atelier Jean Nouvel

joelucie

just heard an inside news.

my company has been successful in securing the ESD consultancy for Melbourne School of Design!
it's a chance to show green stuff to architect students of Melb Uni.

is anyone here graduated from this school?

[ 本帖最后由 joelucie 于 2010-8-6 16:42 编辑 ]

joelucie

has anyone here heard Pixel building in Melbourne? http://www.pixelbuilding.com.au/
The greenest office building in Australia, achieved full scores of Green Star office V3 tool.

joelucie

http://www.youtube.com/v/Fe-Fckt ... e=player_embedded#!

Devil_Star

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-6 12:16 发表
Don't too much worry about the Green Star Exam, Devil_Star, open book now. find a friend sitting next to you.

the trick is now GBCA requires CDP training to keep your AP status! 30 sustainability edu ...

其实就是要钱， 现在这些GREENBUILDING SCHEMES越来越商业化。 NABERS也好不了多少， 那些管的人都是爱理不理的～

Devil_Star

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-6 12:57 发表
现在要想single glazing full height 不能再通过BCA2010 glazing calculator了吧？

SHOWROOM的话还有机会， 用用SINGLE-GLAZED COMFORT PLUS或者ITO， OFFICE的话就基本没可能了。

tld128

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-6 16:47 发表
has anyone here heard Pixel building in Melbourne? http://www.pixelbuilding.com.au/
The greenest office building in Australia, achieved full scores of Green Star office V3 tool.

说真的，我个人感觉这栋建筑有点哗众取宠的样子，外墙的装饰有点没有道理，从里面往外看更是这样。希望能多些资料可以参考一下

当然这是一种尝试的开始。悉尼也有一栋建筑是以ESD出名的，不过不准拍照。在市中心

[ 本帖最后由 tld128 于 2010-8-6 22:42 编辑 ]

yn2000

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-6 16:40 发表
just heard an inside news.

my company has been successful in securing the ESD consultancy for Melbourne School of Design!
it's a chance to show green stuff to architect students of Melb Uni.

is any ...

不知这帮澳洲‘乌龟’们要弄多少年？

xyliu925

原帖由 yn2000 于 2010-8-6 23:07 发表


不知这帮澳洲‘乌龟’们要弄多少年？

?

tld128

我想意思是green star 这样的标准不知道要弄多少年才真正出来成为标准。

现在关于green star的评审标准业界还没最终确认吧？起码2星期前公司内部ESD开会，说这个还没确定，现在有没有改变我不清楚

tld128

SBF Tower / Atelier Hollein06Aug 2010By Sebastian J — Filed under: Offices , Atelier Hollein, China, Shenzhen


© Atelier Hollein

Atelier Hollein shared with us their latest project in Shenzhen, China. It’s a high-rise office building for which they received one of first prizes in the 4in1 Tower Competition in 2009. You can see more images and architect’s description after the break.

The office tower has a strategic position within the texture of the city. Adjacent to the Town Hall and its main North-South axis, and located on East-West oriented Shen Nan Avenue, it has the pole position in the central quarter in Shenzhen, where in midst the stock exchange building dominates.


© Atelier Hollein

The SFB Tower building contrasts to the new stock exchange, a building by Rem Kohlhaas which is currently under construction. In actual fact it contrasts to any high-rise in the vicinity because it is different. With its memorable design, based on an early sketch drawn by Hans Hollein in his time in Chicago, how skyscrapers should look in the future , it becomes a dominant statement within the high-rises, in an exposed corner position of the cluster,

The tower building in plan is a simple square of 45 m x 45 m, with 42 floors and an overall height of 200 m and it features a total floor area of 80.500 m² above ground.


© Atelier Hollein

A skirt building partially frames the tower in the base zone, where the entrance area, the public business hall and a high class restaurant are located.

The tower building itself rises on top as a highly sculptured building with vertical gardens integrated in the architecture such giving the tower a very distinct appearance talking of alternative workstyle and sustainability.

Vertically the tower is a layered structure featuring two different zones of 5 to 6 floors each which repeat alternating 3 and 4 times. One such zone has 6 identical floors with a square outer perimeter. But the other zone of 5 floors is highly complex in its outer appearance:


© Atelier Hollein

Each individual floor is seemingly different; deep setbacks and far outreaching cantilevers interchange along the imaginary façade line and are overgrown with plants. These sky garden-levels also have the advantage that their purposely versatile outer appearance is very flexible and can easily answer individual situations.

The main entrance lies in the north with a covered drive up. A ramp leads to the underground parking in the northwest of the access street in the west. East a two way exit ramp from the underground parking also connects up with the road system.


© Atelier Hollein

The entrance lobby with the adjoining business hall has luxurious dimensions with tall spaces and interesting volumetric situations. The materials used are elegant surfaces of stone and wood, glass and metals.

Architects: Atelier Hollein
Location: Shenzhen, China
Project Team: Christoph Monschein, Ulf Kotz
Client: Southern / Bosera Fund
Site Area: 80,000 m2 office area

tld128

旁边那栋反过来的十字形建筑是证劵交易大厅。

忘了从哪里下载的动画，前天晚上才播给老婆看了，好像是SOM设计的？

Devil_Star

原帖由 tld128 于 2010-8-7 07:39 发表
我想意思是green star 这样的标准不知道要弄多少年才真正出来成为标准。

现在关于green star的评审标准业界还没最终确认吧？起码2星期前公司内部ESD开会，说这个还没确定，现在有没有改变我不清楚 ...

说容易容易， 说难也难。 最快的方法是立即实行EMISSION TRADING， 把碳给标价， 电费涨它5倍， 估计不出3年， 满街都是GREENSTAR和NABERS。

老猫晒太阳

Emission trading is a business all about money, not a environmental sensitive improvement.

joelucie

原帖由 tld128 于 2010-8-7 07:39 发表
我想意思是green star 这样的标准不知道要弄多少年才真正出来成为标准。

现在关于green star的评审标准业界还没最终确认吧？起码2星期前公司内部ESD开会，说这个还没确定，现在有没有改变我不清楚 ...

Green Star和国际上的LEED，BREEAM 还有其他的包括中国的三星绿标 都不是强制性标准，是market driven的。标准也是不断进步的，Cundall的网站上有http://www.cundall.com.au/portal/ratings.html不错，有这么多的认证建筑就可以说明评审标准业界认可的。gov的建筑是强制要求NABERS评级的，各州订的不一样。

joelucie

原帖由 老猫晒太阳 于 2010-8-7 12:36 发表

Emission trading is a business all about money, not a environmental sensitive improvement.

个人认为碳交易的实施对地球环境的影响不会很大。初衷也有待商榷，二氧化碳本身就不是坏东西。
但实施后民众的行为得以以节约，节能，环保为准则，是负责任的态度。我赞成碳交易的建立。
但问题多多，碳交易员就和会计师一样，一大批人负责民众和公司的秩序和自觉性是人类活动的效率浪费还是进步？提高就业养活一帮人倒是真的。
另外对发展中国家起步也不利。

joelucie

原帖由 tld128 于 2010-8-7 07:39 发表
我想意思是green star 这样的标准不知道要弄多少年才真正出来成为标准。

现在关于green star的评审标准业界还没最终确认吧？起码2星期前公司内部ESD开会，说这个还没确定，现在有没有改变我不清楚 ...

至少我们公司做的ESD都是算出payback time的，只要客户认可就行的。以后有碳交易，会缩小payback time的。也有做了几个礼拜说不做Green Star了。但感觉认可的开发商还是很多，我们esd team的活就没断过。

catparrot

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-7 13:27 发表

Green Star和国际上的LEED，BREEAM 还有其他的包括中国的三星绿标 都不是强制性标准，是market driven的。标准也是不断进步的，Cundall的网站上有http://www.cundall.com.au/portal/ratings.html不错，有这么多的认证建筑就 ...

cundall做的能耗我想当不敢恭维，里面错误及其之多，
有一次cop竟然用的是22度的wet bulb作为计算基础的，如果室内是RH50%,22oC wb差不多是30oC db

joelucie

原帖由 tld128 于 2010-8-6 22:41 发表


说真的，我个人感觉这栋建筑有点哗众取宠的样子，外墙的装饰有点没有道理，从里面往外看更是这样。希望能多些资料可以参考一下

当然这是一种尝试的开始。悉尼也有一栋建筑是以ESD出名的，不过不准拍照。在市中心 ...

有同感啊 那个花花绿绿的shading不是我们esd要求的，是studio 505建筑要求的。它的innovation credit的report 300多页－没有哪个green star submission的inno report有这么长过的

joelucie

原帖由 catparrot 于 2010-8-7 21:54 发表

cundall做的能耗我想当不敢恭维，里面错误及其之多，
有一次cop竟然用的是22度的wet bulb作为计算基础的，如果室内是RH50%,22oC wb差不多是30oC db

请问这位朋友什么background， 我有朋友在cundall做mechanical的。如果谈到COP一般是指chiller的COP，听你说的我怀疑是air－cooled chiller的COP，其是以ambient WB参考的（ARI test condition）应该与室内设计参数不搭嘎的，请这位朋友参考。如你能告诉我他们给的COP，model no或chiller的计算能耗，我可以判断。

catparrot

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-7 22:41 发表


请问这位朋友什么background， 我有朋友在cundall做mechanical的。如果谈到COP一般是指chiller的COP，听你说的我怀疑是air－cooled chiller的COP，其是以ambient WB参考的（ARI test condition）应该与室内设计参数不搭嘎的，请 ...

vrf heat recovery, daikin,cop不是一般只指chiller,chiller就是水冷系统，风冷就是一般的fcu,ai to air heat recovery很经常用于一些不是很大的项目，大的项目一般chiller组比较多，chiller好控制一些，风冷的dx一般不如chiller那么容易控制。

heat recovery的数据必须从manufacture那里得到, 不可能进行模拟， manufactue会提供数据，当然还要保密什么的，就是不让我们告诉别人。
cundall我看过他的一个项目整个cop为什么是错的呢. cop就是powe output/power input, power input在不同的情况下是不同的，比如22度，23度，所以cop是变化的，这些power input需要daikin的数据提供， cundall的一个项目找数据是用的50% RH， 22的湿球。

The terms COP (coefficient of performance) and EER (energy efficiency ratio）以前一个冷，一个热， 现在好像都不分了啊，统称cop,或eer/

catparrot

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-7 22:41 发表


请问这位朋友什么background， 我有朋友在cundall做mechanical的。如果谈到COP一般是指chiller的COP，听你说的我怀疑是air－cooled chiller的COP，其是以ambient WB参考的（ARI test condition）应该与室内设计参数不搭嘎的，请 ...

不是ambient啊，是室内的啊， 室内22wb.所以才夸张啊

老猫晒太阳

(paopaobing(3))   楼好歪。

catparrot

原帖由 joelucie 于 2010-8-7 22:41 发表


请问这位朋友什么background， 我有朋友在cundall做mechanical的。如果谈到COP一般是指chiller的COP，听你说的我怀疑是air－cooled chiller的COP，其是以ambient WB参考的（ARI test condition）应该与室内设计参数不搭嘎的，请 ...

说道这个air to water,三菱上周到我们公司展示一个澳洲第一个air to water heat recovery的空调机。不过实际可能要到明年才能真正投入市场。
歪楼了， 不说了

joelucie

原帖由 catparrot 于 2010-8-7 23:39 发表


说道这个air to water,三菱上周到我们公司展示一个澳洲第一个air to water heat recovery的空调机。不过实际可能要到明年才能真正投入市场。
歪楼了， 不说了 ...

？？？听名字不新啊 不过要具体看了，我估计是air to hot water空气源热泵热水器，中国南方产品很早06年就有用了
还有这位朋友前面谈的概念混乱，似是而非，部分正确，应该不是mechanical background，可以单独补课。

这楼从谈建筑到ESD再到mechanial的，不过都是建筑行业的事啊～～
回到谈建筑，个人观点啊建筑师应多功能性创新，艺术形式服从功能。从了解人的生活方式，功能的拓展需求设计。公用建筑师需多了解系统及节能的趋势。看前面讨论什么大师的什么艺术流派本人实在不了（缺乏艺术细胞）。看了些特艺术性的建筑就反而喜欢那工厂化的空调都exposed的。

[ 本帖最后由 joelucie 于 2010-8-8 01:12 编辑 ]

joelucie

还有最近和一个Archicentre的快50岁的老师交流，他说澳洲有很多建好的bad designed house, unit. 他例举了他丈人的住房，丈人从昆州来墨尔本买地建房，朝西有景，不听女婿的劝，living room朝西建大玻璃幕墙还double glazing的， 夏天living room热的没人待，太阳radiation进来double glazing的散热又慢些， 室内又没有通风处理，实在是花钱不讨好。

这老师本身是home assessor，丈人前阵子说你给评评个星级啊，老师说不用算了，经验就过不了4星！ 5星以上评级是现有的新房强制标准，需要5星以上的energy report在维州才能拿到building permit。明年五月一号后标准将提高到6星。

如有building designer或developer需要做energy report的 我可以帮忙！