（持分求教）刚报了副业开出租，可是还没拿到证没收入，今年能报退税吗？

gnefoaix

有份主业，收入不够花，报了副业准备开出租。

培训费啥的已经花了1000多的，还没拿到证，所以也没上路没收入。

马上6月底了，不知道这部分支出是不是可以在今年(2012-2013)报主业的个人所得税。

如果不行，明年(2013-2014)出租有收入了，可以把支出抵出租收入的税吗？（费用发生在2013年6月以前）。

穷人啊，能省出一分是一分。

求指导

gnefoaix

求人指导一下

yzf686

不可以抵你主业的收入，因为跟你主业收入无关。
主业应该就是上班吧。如果已经申请了ABN，可以把这个支出放进今年的tax return里，不过是要放在business里，这样今天的business就是loss。这个loss是可以carry forward到下一年，抵以后的副业收入

gnefoaix

yzf686 发表于 2013-6-28 11:25
不可以抵你主业的收入，因为跟你主业收入无关。
主业应该就是上班吧。如果已经申请了ABN，可以把这个支出放 ...

谢谢回复。

还没申请ABN，不知道能不能明年申请退掉。

LENNY_DONG

gnefoaix 发表于 2013-6-28 11:28
谢谢回复。

还没申请ABN，不知道能不能明年申请退掉。

yes, but apply ABN ASAP

yzf686

gnefoaix 发表于 2013-6-28 11:28
谢谢回复。

还没申请ABN，不知道能不能明年申请退掉。

建议最好快点申请

gnefoaix

LENNY_DONG 发表于 2013-6-28 11:41
yes, but apply ABN ASAP

多谢回复。

今天已经是28号了，我现在申请ABN，应该到30号前下不来，那明年还能报LOST吗？

gnefoaix

yzf686 发表于 2013-6-28 11:45
建议最好快点申请

多谢回复。

今天已经是28号了，我现在申请ABN，应该到30号前下不来，那明年还能报LOST吗？

LENNY_DONG

gnefoaix 发表于 2013-6-28 11:45
多谢回复。

今天已经是28号了，我现在申请ABN，应该到30号前下不来，那明年还能报LOST吗？ ...

IT IS OK

BUT LOSS FOR THIS YEAR I THINK U ASK FOR

yzf686

ABN是可以back date的，你把开始日期放在你开始培训的时候就好

gnefoaix

LENNY_DONG 发表于 2013-6-28 11:48
IT IS OK

BUT LOSS FOR THIS YEAR I THINK U ASK FOR

今年如果在6月30号前ABN下不来（估计是下不来），LOST就报不到今年了，那也没办法。

只要明年能报，我也能很高兴了，因为我估计会至少再穷个好几年 :-)

下面的TX说的申请ABN时用Back date的办法可行吗？是报到今年还是报到明年？

yzf686

多谢多谢！
个人觉得ABN开始时间最好在所有支出之前，这样就算退一万步被ATO查到也不会落下口实。而且这个支出的定义有点灰色，你可以说是为了setup生意的支出，也可以说是为了运营生意的支出。如果是setup的支出，就需要在5年里分摊，而不是在一年全部claim。
所以，本来就灰色了，如果ABN开始日期在支出之后，被判为setup cost的可能性，个人认为更大。

lovefenger

jeff_lawsons

哥們， 你的 training fee 今年不能 deduct, 將來也不能 deduct, 原因如下:


1.        The business you proposed to commence was offering your services to the public for a fee. Therefore, until you have the assets to commence business, including taxi, license, and have opened your services to the public in return for a fee, you will not have commenced business.

2.        As you were neither producing assessable income nor carrying on a business by operating at the time the expenses were incurred you are unable to claim a deduction for the expense incurred under Section 8-1 of the ITAA 1997.

3.        The training fee is a capital expenditure because you need to hold a license in order to establish the business structure, and it requires the training to be done.

4.        Even though a deduction is denied under section 8-1, a deduction may be allowed under the provisions of section 40-880 of the ITAA 1997 (Blackhole expenditure) (12樓說的)

5.        However a deduction for your business capital expenditure is not available under section 40-880 due to the operation of subsection 35-10(2B) of the ITAA 1997. This provision states that you cannot deduct an amount under section 40-880 of the ITAA 1997 in an income year before the income year in which the business commences.

6.        Hence you cannot claim the training fee in this year and in future years. The lossess are effectively wasted.

hyue68

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-28 13:24
哥們， 你的 training fee 今年不能 deduct, 將來也不能 deduct,   原因如下:

我赞同

gnefoaix

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-28 13:24
哥們， 你的 training fee 今年不能 deduct, 將來也不能 deduct,   原因如下:

很专业啊，我这样理解对不对（我完全门外汉，英语也不好，硬着头皮看的啊）

1. 因为Business还没开始，没赚钱，所以支出不能算在deduction里，并且培训支出，一直就被认为是开展business所需的条件，所以不能deduction (8-1)

2. 想把培训费用作为Setup business成本作为Deduction (40-880)，也是行不通的，因为35-10(2B)，就是说只能在本年deduct本年的cost，而不是跨年。

就是说如果training和开展business是在同一个财政年进行的，可以deduction，我这种情况属于Bad Luck。

ATO这样定义这样很不公平啊，人家为了退税，还要选择开始开展Business的时期。比如我只有到4月份才开始有空学车，为了退税，我需要一定等到7月份，才能开始做。

另外，除了Training fee外，还有一些其他支出，比如去培训的汽油，照相，申请费，这些都不能计算成为成本，郁闷啊。

今天分分没了，后面一定加上。

jeff_lawsons

gnefoaix 发表于 2013-6-28 15:08
很专业啊，我这样理解对不对（我完全门外汉，英语也不好，硬着头皮看的啊）

1. 因为Business还没开始， ...

Your understanding is correct.

Although not deductible, these undeductible business set-up expenses can actually form the cost base of your taxi license.
When you sell the taxi license in the future, you will pay less capital gains tax.

gnefoaix

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-28 15:33
Your understanding is correct.

Although not deductible, these undeductible business set-up expens ...

TX，谢谢你的回复啊。

可能前面我没说清楚，我是拿的Taxi Driver License，不是Taxi Plate License。所以不可能Sell License.

Taxi行业，Taxi Owner, Taxi Operator和Taxi Driver分得很清楚的。我属于最底层Taxi Driver

Owner才拥有Taxi，一个Taxi (Plate) License大概要40W，Owner可以坐着收钱。

Operator负责所有的Taxi管理工作，车险，修理，对新driver的培训等等。一周交给Owner 600左右。

Driver就是我们劳苦大众咯，一个Shift (12 hours)交给Operator 100-200多不等（看是哪天），这种是没有车的任何所有权的，只是开车赚辛苦钱。这种情况下，Taxi Driver License的费用还不能deduction，就太郁闷了。

jeff_lawsons

gnefoaix 发表于 2013-6-28 15:40
TX，谢谢你的回复啊。

可能前面我没说清楚，我是拿的Taxi Driver License，不是Taxi Plate License。所 ...

So you do not own a taxi licence, you operate under the taxi licence of the taxi owner. Then it depdens on your relationship with the taxi owner, you may not carry a business, your relationship with the owner may be just "employer and employee".


Questions for you:

1.  Will you receive annual or other holidays, sick leave, long service leave or payments in lieu from the provider?
2.  Are you free to operate the taxi when and where you choose?
3.  Are you leasing the taxi for a fixed amount per week ?


It looks like you can only claim the training expenses under "work related self-education". Becuase the training fee is for you to open up a new income-earning activity (Taxi driver) hence it is not deductible to you.

However, the taxi owner may be able to claim the training expenses if he is operating a business.

gnefoaix

Taxi Driver本身被作为一个business来看的，在申请ABN时，都能体现。

收入也要交GST（因为收了乘客的钱中包括了GST），一个季度要报一次GST的。

Answers

1.  Will you receive annual or other holidays, sick leave, long service leave or payments in lieu from the provider?
如果是Full time, he/she is entitled for annual/sick leave, Part time（一年少于xxx个Shift）就没有

2.  Are you free to operate the taxi when and where you choose?
Yes, I can choose any operator at my choice.

3.  Are you leasing the taxi for a fixed amount per week ?
这个非常灵活，基本就是和Operator商量好，下次开什么时候就行了，但是要记Log。
收入中交100-200给Operator，剩下的全自己留着，自己报income的GST。

jeff_lawsons

As long as you do not operate the taxi as an employee, and if you operate the taxi on a commercial basis a few days per week with a view to a profit, displaying the repetition, regularity and commercial manner characteristic of the taxi industry, then you are considered to be carrying on a business.

However, the training fee is a self education expenses. Because the training fee is for you to open up a new income-earning activity (whether in business or in your  employment as a Taxi driver) hence it is not deductible to you.

gnefoaix

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-28 16:26
As long as you do not operate the taxi as an employee, and if you operate the taxi on a commercial b ...

多谢啊TX

GreenTreePython

开taxi一般都报很少税的 ，所以也没什么好退的了。