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[信息讨论] 关于share 的capital gain tax [复制链接]

发表于 2008-6-4 17:34 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 trust2004 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 trust2004 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
SHARE如果GAIN了是要交税的,那如果为了避免交税,可不可以在6。30号把账面上亏损的股票先卖掉,然后再买回来。这个理论上是可以操作的。但据说在美国,如果是同一只股票,是要过一个月才能再买入的,
不知道有没有人这样操作过 FOR AVOID TAX PURPOSE。
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退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-6-4 17:39 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 黑山老妖 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 黑山老妖 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Yes, you can do that. A lot ppl do that.

退役斑竹

发表于 2008-6-4 18:52 |显示全部楼层

回复 1# 的帖子

此文章由 Artcore 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Artcore 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
应该可以的.

或者把挣钱的股票在6.30后抛掉.

退役斑竹

发表于 2008-6-5 23:23 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Devil_Star 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Devil_Star 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
什么事情都有两面, 当你想7月捡回来的时候, 大家都这么想, 本来没股票的还想捡便宜呢,可能会搞到7月开始回升了~

发表于 2008-6-6 11:10 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 kitty_cat 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 kitty_cat 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
I saw an article in which the tax commissioner said that you can't claim capital loss if you sell the share at the end of financial year and buy them back straight away. That will be regarded as tax avoidance which is illegal. But guess people still so do as long as you will not be audited?

发表于 2008-6-6 11:56 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 trust2004 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 trust2004 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
:o 原来是ILLEGAL的。但我问了好几个ACCCOUNTANT,都说可以这么操作的。
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退役斑竹

发表于 2008-6-6 11:59 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 一炷香 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 一炷香 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
that's it... just like a lot people are claiming tram/train ticket as deduction. it is explicitly legislated to be undeductible but people are still doing that. and you don't get trouble if you don't get audited.
不要叫我宅男,请叫我老舍先生

发表于 2008-6-6 12:01 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 大飞熊 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 大飞熊 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
原帖由 trust2004 于 2008-6-6 10:56 发表
:o 原来是ILLEGAL的。但我问了好几个ACCCOUNTANT,都说可以这么操作的。


很多华人做tax ACCCOUNTANT都是一知半解的。

楼上说的对,现在好像不能卖了马上买回这么简单了。不过ATO对这样的规矩订得很模糊

等我啥时候有空了,去参加征文写写Capital tax的问题。(当然只是我理解的一小部分)

[ 本帖最后由 大飞熊 于 2008-6-6 11:02 编辑 ]

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发表于 2008-6-6 12:04 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 trust2004 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 trust2004 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
大飞熊,你一定要写。我给你加分。

发表于 2008-6-6 12:16 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 trust2004 于 2008-6-6 11:04 发表
大飞熊,你一定要写。我给你加分。


要不先加点给点动力?
走别人的路,让别人走投无路

退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-6-6 12:18 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 黑山老妖 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 黑山老妖 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
原帖由 kitty_cat 于 6/6/2008 10:10 发表
I saw an article in which the tax commissioner said that you can't claim capital loss if you sell the share at the end of financial year and buy them back straight away. That will be regarded as tax a ...


Well, that's open to interpretation.
You can always argue that it's a trade decision rather than a tax consideration.
e.g. if you can prove that your trading system signalled the sale and buy of those shares...
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发表于 2008-6-6 12:23 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 黑山老妖 于 2008-6-6 11:18 发表


Well, that's open to interpretation.
You can always argue that it's a trade decision rather than a tax consideration.
e.g. if you can prove that your trading system signalled the sale and buy of ...

If you are interested in the ato ruling on the wash sale, you can have a read on this tax ruling TR2008/1:Income tax: application of Part IVA of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 to 'wash sale' arrangements


http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/vie ... ;PiT=99991231235958

退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-6-6 12:33 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 黑山老妖 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 黑山老妖 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
原帖由 qisiwole 于 6/6/2008 11:23 发表

If you are interested in the ato ruling on the wash sale, you can have a read on this tax ruling TR2008/1:Income tax: application of Part IVA of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 to 'wash sale' arr ...

Example 6: period of time between disposal and acquisition

61. David, a plumber by trade, has a keen interest in the share market and maintains an online trading account. David holds a diversified portfolio in a number of large publicly listed companies, but on occasion David likes to gamble on certain speculative stocks that attract his attention. His investment activities do not constitute the carrying on of a business.

62. One such speculative stock is the listed, widely traded and highly volatile technology based stock IT Ltd (IT). Following a recent rally, IT goes into 'free fall' in September 2006. Over the last weekend of September 2006, David reviews his portfolio, researches the company's financial position, the views held by commentators, and follows the discussion in various share market chat rooms. Following his research, David decides that he should sell his stake in IT, which has a reduced cost base of $2.88, in order to minimise further losses.

63. On 2 October 2006, David sells his entire holding in IT, being 30,000 shares at a price of $1.50 per share. CGT Event A1 happens upon the sale of the shares and David incurs a capital loss of $41,400. On 2 and 3 October David actively investigates potential companies to invest the proceeds he received from the sale of IT. During the course of those investigations he notices that the sentiment of certain investors towards IT has changed, that there has been a relative increase in the volume of IT shares traded and that the IT share price is climbing again. David continues to monitor IT whilst trying to decide what company he should invest the surplus funds. As he is unable to decide on a suitable investment, and IT's price has continued to climb, David decides to purchase shares in IT. On 5 October 2006 David purchases 27,000 shares at the prevailing market rate of $1.67 per share. On the 6 April 2007 David sells some other shares and makes a capital gain of $35,000. The $41,400 capital loss is applied against this capital gain, giving David a net capital loss of $6,400 for the 2006-2007 income year.

64. The scheme, for the purposes of subsection 177A(1), includes all the steps leading to (including the objective research undertaken by David) the entering into, and the implementation of the sale and the subsequent purchase of IT shares; the making of the $41,400 capital loss and the application of the capital loss against the $35,000 capital gain so that it was reduced to zero resulting in a net capital loss of $6,400 to David for the year ended 30 June 2007.

65. The objective circumstances of the scheme, in particular the offsetting nature of the transactions which occurred within 3 days of each other, may indicate that it is unreasonable to expect that David would have incurred the capital loss of $41,400 had the scheme not been carried out and, thus, that a tax benefit within the meaning of paragraph 177C(1)(ba) has been obtained, being the $41,400 capital loss. As the scheme had no material effect or outcome on David's economic exposure to the asset it is reasonable to conclude that nothing would have happened if the scheme had not been entered into or carried out. Alternatively, the length of time between the sale and purchase, which coincides with changes in the market performance of IT, may suggest that the sale and purchase are not part of the same scheme, and that David would have disposed of the IT shares, regardless of the scheme. If this is the case, David may not have obtained a tax benefit.

66. Section 177D provides that Part IVA applies to a scheme in connection with which the taxpayer has obtained a tax benefit if, after having regard to the eight specified factors, it would be concluded that a person who entered into or carried out the scheme, or any part of it, did so for the purpose of enabling the taxpayer to obtain the tax benefit. Having regard to the eight specified factors:

    ·
          The manner in which the scheme was entered into or carried out (subparagraph 177D(b)(i)), in particular the short period of time between the disposal and acquisition, may objectively be taken to indicate that David sold the shares without any intention of ceasing to hold an economic exposure to IT. However, the fact that the disposal and acquisition are explicable by reference to market changes, for instance the improvement in share price and demand for the stock may also be regarded as consistent with the way in which taxpayers usually hold and realise investments. The coincidence with market changes may lead a reasonable person to infer that the sale and purchase of the IT shares within a short time was the result of independent investment decisions to sell and buy for commercial reasons. Overall, this factor points away from the conclusion as to dominant purpose.

    ·
          There is no discrepancy between the form and substance of the scheme (subparagraph 177D(b)(ii)). In form, David has changed his beneficial ownership of the shares. The fact that David was at risk of (having regard to the widely held, actively traded and volatile nature of IT shares), and suffered, an adverse economic outcome from the change in the market value of the IT shares is consistent with David in substance disposing of his IT holding. The risk is material having regard to the market conditions of the time.

    ·
          The timing (subparagraph 177D(b)(iii)) of the scheme, in particular of the purchase, being referable to a change in investor sentiment and market activity tends against the dominant purpose of obtaining a tax benefit. The loss was incurred prior to the capital gain against which it was applied. However, there is nothing in the facts and circumstances to suggest that this gain was predictable or expected.

    ·
          The tax results achieved (but for Part IVA) (subparagraph 177D(b)(iv)) is the incurrence of the $41,400 capital loss that entirely reduced the tax David would otherwise have had to pay on the $35,000 capital gain he derived later in the year. This was the only material benefit obtained, as the sale proceeds he received were used to purchase shares in IT on 5 October 2006. There has been no material change in David's financial position as a result of the scheme (subparagraph 177D(b)(v)). Other than the increase in his financial resources from not having to pay tax on the capital gain David acquired materially the same value of shares as he disposed of, just a smaller number.

    ·
          There has been no change in the financial position of any parties associated with David (subparagraph 177D(b)(vi)), but this is because no such parties were involved in the scheme. David missed out on the increase in the market value of the IT shares whilst not holding them (subparagraph 177D(b)(vii)). Furthermore, David had to pay more to acquire each IT share than he received on disposal and, thus, could only purchase a smaller number of IT shares. Thus, David has suffered an economic loss in comparison to the counterfactual. If the counterfactual had occurred David would have continued to hold 30,000 IT shares, rather than 27,000 IT shares under the scheme. This loss of $5,100 is material when compared with the tax saving obtained. The only connection between David and the stockbroker arises from commercial or professional relationships (subparagraph 177D(b)(viii)). Thus, these factors are neutral, or tend against the conclusion as to the dominant purpose.

67. Upon weighing the eight matters it would be concluded that the dominant purpose of David in entering into and carrying out the scheme was not to obtain a tax benefit in the form of a capital loss. In particular the manner in which the sale and purchase were entered into, the form and substance of the scheme, the timing and other consequences of the scheme support this conclusion. Accordingly, Part IVA does not apply.
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