tender签好后builder可以随意涨价吗？

zengyiyu110

最近很头疼，在西南买了块500多平的地准备建房，房子开建之前Masterton Homes突然要加价8万8，想咨询一下各位合不合理。

建房的tender是2021年4月签署的，签的价钱是50多万，付了2万多deposit。直到2023年3月DA才批下来，DA批后又花两个月选了几次内饰和外墙什么的，合同就60多万了，CC申请了两三个月也太慢了。
这个月7月CC下来之后，Masterton一个邮件发过来说因为材料涨价，需要base pirce increase，我算了一下，涨幅大概有18%，为什么不早说，开建之前说这不就是流氓吗，给我两个礼拜答复。这样算起来要70多万，和重新找builder没有任何区别，那2021年签的合同有什么用，这么一直拖延builder难道一点责任都没有吗，如果走法律程序胜诉的可能性大吗。

HolyHH

看合同怎么写的。其他都是bullshit。

zengyiyu110

The contract price may vary under this contract. The reasons for variations to the contract price include:
Additional Special Conditions SC2 Contract Price and SC7 Variation Processing Charge;
Clause 5 planning and building approvals;
Clause 6 a survey being required;
Clause 14 a consultant being engaged to report on the site conditions;
Clause 15 an increase in a tax, charge or levy after this contract is signed;
Clause 18 variations to the building works;
Clause 20 an adjustment for prime cost items and provisional sum items.
The contract price does not include items set out in Schedule 3 and does not include the costs that the owner will have to pay to a third party for, conveying services to the site or connecting or installing services for use at the site.
Note: The builder cannot demand or receive any of the contract price (including the deposit) until warranty insurance is in force and the owner is provided with the certificate of insurance.

zengyiyu110

HolyHH 发表于 2023-7-18 09:09
看合同怎么写的。其他都是bullshit。

The contract price may vary under this contract. The reasons for variations to the contract price include:
Additional Special Conditions SC2 Contract Price and SC7 Variation Processing Charge;
Clause 5 planning and building approvals;
Clause 6 a survey being required;
Clause 14 a consultant being engaged to report on the site conditions;
Clause 15 an increase in a tax, charge or levy after this contract is signed;
Clause 18 variations to the building works;
Clause 20 an adjustment for prime cost items and provisional sum items.
The contract price does not include items set out in Schedule 3 and does not include the costs that the owner will have to pay to a third party for, conveying services to the site or connecting or installing services for use at the site.
Note: The builder cannot demand or receive any of the contract price (including the deposit) until warranty insurance is in force and the owner is provided with the certificate of insurance.

xq052b

我们最近也准备盖房

几个大builder都告诉我们，价格最多锁6个月

因为DA原因无法开工，是不cover的

所以我们决定宁可牺牲房子尺寸也要走cdc

weekends

是的，tender只是报价，不是合同
这里面有各种因素，合理的加价是比如当时未知的，后来最后阶段确定的需要额外费用，比较节能未达标、结构需要额外钢结构等等。灰色的理由，比如他的margin 不够了。比较无耻的包括先把顾客套住，再宰。
曾经被加过不少site cost ，个人觉得还算合理，虽然不爽。

zengyiyu110

xq052b 发表于 2023-7-18 09:17
我们最近也准备盖房

几个大builder都告诉我们，价格最多锁6个月

我们的合同是合同过期后每个月涨$950。
Apart from the preparation of plans there are a number ofother formal matters that will need to be attended to within the 90 day period to enable the signing of your Building Agreement:
1, Sign your completed plans ready for lodgementto the appropriate statutory approving
Authority.
2. Return your completed Energy Assessment Checklist and Schedule of External Finishes.
3. Provide evidencethat you are or will be the registered owner of the land.
4. Obtain a letter from your financier confirming approval of funds for the construction of your new
home. Alternatively, if your intention is to fund the construction by cash, then evidence will be
required for your capacity to pay.
5. Make payment of the 5% deposit at time of signing your Building Agreement.
Should the above not be completed within the 90 day period (Calendar days) of this New Home Proposal then a charge of $950 per month will be applied for any extension period required to cover the increase in building material and labour costs.

zengyiyu110

weekends 发表于 2023-7-18 09:17
是的，tender只是报价，不是合同
这里面有各种因素，合理的加价是比如当时未知的，后来最后阶段确定的需要 ...

以下这是他们给的理由。。。。
The building industry has experienced unprecedented monthly price increases from our suppliers and trades, as the cost of raw materials and labour soars. These external factors are outside of our control and are the result of global supply chain pressures as well as significant challenges within the local building industry.

In the past year, the Master Builders Association reported that “building material costs are now increasing at their fastest rate since 1980”, with the major increases coming from Reinforcing steel, Timber, Steel beams, Metal roofing/guttering, Brick, Concrete and Insulation.

While Masterton have worked very hard to prevent these increases from affecting the price of your build, we are no longer able to absorb these costs. As a responsible builder, we must be able to pay for our trades, our suppliers, our staff, as well as complete your build, and be here to warrant your home for the next 6 years’.

What we are looking for is a reasonable way to move forward to build your home, and the amount we require to do so is an increase of $97,000.

weekends

楼主，只要是tender，不是合同。按照我的理解，你没有办法的，如果觉得他家还可以，就只能争取少加点，觉得不靠谱就唯有换一家。
涨价不需要理由，况且现在确实啥都涨价，搞不好还倒闭。

oed

21年到23年涨8万8，感觉不多

Siva

涨价的幅度还算合理

xq052b

zengyiyu110 发表于 2023-7-18 09:19
我们的合同是合同过期后每个月涨$950。
Apart from the preparation of plans there are a number ofothe ...

这就不懂了，你问过律师吗？

凭直觉，他们不可能按照两年前的价格盖的，宁可赔点损失费给你

而且你的DA为啥要那么长时间啊？是不是房子特别大啊

zonoliu

合同没锁价格（你也锁不了）那就随便人家欺负你。
其实现在跟21年比材料涨幅已经不算啥了，只是builder也想吃肉他说啥就是啥

jimboj

建议去Facebook里面有一个团叫做Building with Masterton看看。 价格调整这个问题最近有不少人在讨论, 看他们说是Masterton一点事先消息都不透露，让客户以为收了每个月$950/$1450过期罚款就足以“固定”签约价格，直到Validation时才突然被告知加价，看来楼主也是这种情况。

zengyiyu110

xq052b 发表于 2023-7-18 09:32
这就不懂了，你问过律师吗？

凭直觉，他们不可能按照两年前的价格盖的，宁可赔点损失费给你

不大，project home能有多复杂。完全是因为他们恶意拖延，如果不是恶意就是效率太低。

zengyiyu110

jimboj 发表于 2023-7-18 09:35
建议去Facebook里面有一个团叫做Building with Masterton看看。 价格调整这个问题最近有不少人在讨论, 看他 ...

谢谢 去找组织

jimboj

zengyiyu110 发表于 2023-7-18 09:36
不大，project home能有多复杂。完全是因为他们恶意拖延，如果不是恶意就是效率太低。 ...

楼主你是买地建房，土地注册有没有影响到时间？

zengyiyu110

jimboj 发表于 2023-7-18 09:40
楼主你是买地建房，土地注册有没有影响到时间？

土地22年8月注册的，23年3月份DA才批。

大头爸爸

等你开始造之后还有很多Variation呢，要加钱的地方多了

jimboj

我们是推倒重建，2021年初合同签约。当时的情况是签约后我们有六个月的时间走完过程，如果过期就要交每个月$950的罚款直到开工为止。主要的好处是交了罚款，也就保住了原本的合同价格。

我们是旧房推倒重建，为了省时间Masterton建议走CDC。我们也是运气好，在疫情封锁六个月的时间内做好了CDC，拆房，租屋的麻烦事，其中CDC花了三个月的时间。

xq052b

jimboj 发表于 2023-7-18 09:52
我们是推倒重建，2021年初合同签约。当时的情况是签约后我们有六个月的时间走完过程，如果过期就要交每个月 ...

所以你是先交的deposit，再走的CDC吗？

我们开始觉得CDC比较难，各种限制

看了群里各种控诉DA延期的故事以后，决定走CDC了

天上不会掉馅饼

合同写的清清楚楚，没有固定价格。顺便说一下，固定价格的那些建筑商大部分都倒闭了。

jimboj

看来Masterton在疫情期间一直都没有对于过期合同加过价，顾客只要每个月交点罚款就可保障签约价。现在是非加不可，材料人工通货膨胀等等，必须向顾客要钱了。其实换一个方向来看，建筑商要求顾客加钱来完成房子，这总比关门倒闭好。

leaf2019

合同价格只要过了fix的期限都是涨，赶紧盖完房子算数，越拖越贵

jimboj

xq052b 发表于 2023-7-18 10:00
所以你是先交的deposit，再走的CDC吗？

我们开始觉得CDC比较难，各种限制

是的，交了5％ deposit。我们也就是普通长方形差不多700m2的一块平地，用CDC是因为没有什么特别的限制，不想多花时间被卡在council。

zengyiyu110

jimboj 发表于 2023-7-18 10:03
看来Masterton在疫情期间一直都没有对于过期合同加过价，顾客只要每个月交点罚款就可保障签约价。现在是非 ...

道理都对，他但凡要提前一年告诉我，我就不会选这个选那了，我们期间加了块十万块的内饰，当时他们一个字都没提涨价的事情。

marco_lw

基本无解吧，客观上是否成本上涨，合同里坑都给你挖好了，况且你这只是个tender 。

天上不会掉馅饼

zengyiyu110 发表于 2023-7-18 10:21
道理都对，他但凡要提前一年告诉我，我就不会选这个选那了，我们期间加了块十万块的内饰，当时他们一个字 ...

因为都在合同里面了。

Diamelia

我的builder是簽合同後6個月內開工才能固定價格，超過6個月還沒開工就要重新算價格。好像這個做法挺普遍的。
開工以後就不會漲了。

xq052b

jimboj 发表于 2023-7-18 10:10
是的，交了5％ deposit。我们也就是普通长方形差不多700m2的一块平地，用CDC是因为没有什么特别的限制， ...

那你推倒旧屋需要申请银行的consent吗？是在CDC批准后申请的吗？

我们是准备推倒投资房盖duplex，所以希望盖的越大越好，CDC对尺寸的限制多一点