保险公司买的income protection，还可以抵税？

雷拜客

保险公司买的income protection，还可以抵税？
LIFE/TPD能同样抵税吗？
不是super里买的

雷拜客

mark

chenzy0513

是可以，那又怎么样？一直都可以

雷拜客

chenzy0513 发表于 2020-11-15 11:15
是可以，那又怎么样？一直都可以

那感觉如果要买的话，不是比super里买划算一点？

寻找

雷拜客 发表于 2020-11-15 11:20
那感觉如果要买的话，不是比super里买划算一点？

可以抵税吗？这个还真不知道，求科普？谢谢

SRMO

在super外买，可以抵税，但贵不少，自己可以算一下，记得问保险broker拿折扣。super买，便宜，而且super里扣钱，不影响你的现金流

angel8791

同问，希望有专业人士能够帮忙解答一下，谢谢！

雷拜客

SRMO 发表于 2020-11-15 12:02
在super外买，可以抵税，但贵不少，自己可以算一下，记得问保险broker拿折扣。super买，便宜，而且super里 ...

谢谢

我准备super内外都买一点，super内买的，限制太多，害怕真有什么事情，拿不到钱。

保险的broker，一般去哪里找比较合适呢？

SRMO

雷拜客 发表于 2020-11-15 12:29
谢谢

我准备super内外都买一点，super内买的，限制太多，害怕真有什么事情，拿不到钱。

income protection不同公司的不能叠加的，只按最高的赔。 TPD和life 是可以加一起。

FPC-S

看到有人鼓励super里买保险, 科普一下吧, 别光盯着那点税, 最后你不一定赚.

首先, income protection的保费是tax deductible, 不管是个人名下还是super里, 想在super里买的IP的还是省省吧, 想知道为什么, 去google一下super的condition of release.

人寿在super里也是tax deductible的, 但在个人名下不是. 不过要注意的是你在养老金里买的是哪种人寿, 千万不要买成养老金公司的group policy. 这里面细节比较多, 有问具体例子再说吧.

人寿放在养老金里面不是不可以, 因为毕竟理赔的时候你已经挂了, 继承人是肯定满足你的condition of release的, 可是, 养老金里的人寿赔付对于某些特定的继承人来说是要交税的, 那些单纯图小钱的朋友可以想一下是你每年几百块的税多呢还是理赔的时候你的后代交上几十万的税划算.

至于说TPD在养老金里买的, 我就问一句话, 你是穷的付不起保费了吗? 如果不是, 你让别人在养老金里买TPD居心何在? 且不说养老金里只能买any occupation的TPD, 问题是你真有个残疾卧床什么的, 然后你又不到preservation age, 请问你躺在床上看着养老金里的钱叹气是种什么心态? 你这保险买了和没买有区别吗?

和人寿类似, 就算你满足某项condition of release, 能拿钱出来, 可是养老金里TPD的赔付在有些情况下是要交最高20%几的税的(具体的不是22%就是24%, 我懒得去查了), 还是刚才那句话, 你每年省那点税钱划算吗?

某些有职业属性的朋友说我可以在super外面再买个own occupation的, 这样出现不能从事自己职业的伤残就不用担心养老金里的钱拿不出来了. 我只能说有些情况下是对的. 不过伤残的事件你是控制不了的. 我只说一点, 保险公司在理赔TPD的时候, 是先审核any occupation再看own occupation, 白话就是如果你倒霉, 伤残比较厉害, 不小心满足了any occupation的条件, 那么, 不好意思, 所有的赔偿赔进SUPER, 你一个需要钱来康复和生活的人只好望钱兴叹了.

最后呢, 吐槽两句现在的监管. 目前在网上能搜到的人寿保险(包含人寿, TPD, 重大疾病和IP)都是有问题的, 而保险公司已经没有销售人员了, 对于普通保险购买者来说, 尤其是年轻人, 是很容易被网上搜到的保险误导的. 所以请大家注意, 目前澳洲最主要的人寿保险公司都是无法在线上销售保险的, 都必须走Financial planning的流程, 有SOA才行, 这是监管的重大失败.

雷拜客

FPC-S 发表于 2020-11-15 21:45
看到有人鼓励super里买保险, 科普一下吧, 别光盯着那点税, 最后你不一定赚.

首先, income protection的保 ...

非常感谢。不过看了你写的，感觉还是有好多看不懂啊，甚至都不敢买了

bigmark

FPC-S 发表于 2020-11-15 21:45
看到有人鼓励super里买保险, 科普一下吧, 别光盯着那点税, 最后你不一定赚.

首先, income protection的保 ...

感觉在super里保险好像没什么用处？

Chounoki

bigmark 发表于 2020-11-16 06:44
感觉在super里保险好像没什么用处？

怎么会没用，在 Super 公司上班的人全指着这个来发工资呢

txyz

FPC-S 发表于 2020-11-15 21:45
看到有人鼓励super里买保险, 科普一下吧, 别光盯着那点税, 最后你不一定赚.

首先, income protection的保 ...

看下来，所有市面上普通人能看到的保险都不值得买了。

szmao

到底要不要买，在哪里买？

f221644

可以看看这个http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1596502&mobile=yes

kiama

https://www.aia.com.au/en/adviser/business-growth-hub/adviser-news/archive/2019/Income-Protection-inside-or-outside-superannuation.html

kiama

SUPERANNUATION-OWNED INCOME PROTECTION
Most superannuation funds offer insurance for their members. There are many benefits of this ownership structure however clients must also be aware of the potential pitfalls. The points below are the potential advantages and disadvantages to consider when it comes to owning income protection through superannuation.

Advantages

Premiums can be funded from employer contributions, member contributions or by using their existing superannuation fund balance, which may assist clients in managing their cashflow and affordability of premiums.
Clients can benefit from income tax savings by claiming a tax deduction for personal contributions or by contributing via a salary sacrifice arrangement using pre-tax salary which may provide cost savings on premiums.
Premiums may be cheaper, particularly for group insurance policies that may also provide individuals with automatic acceptance up to a set level of cover with no medicals required.
The trustee of the superannuation fund will generally withhold PAYG tax on benefit payments before the monthly benefit is paid to the client.

Disadvantages

In addition to meeting the insurance policy definition of incapacity, the client must also meet the temporary incapacity condition of release under superannuation law before the trustee can pay the income protection benefit to the client (i.e. client must cease employment due to illness or injury to meet eligibility requirements).
Payments may be delayed as benefits must generally be paid by the insurer to the trustee first.
Premiums can erode retirement savings if clients don’t make extra contributions to negate premium cost.
Contributions made to fund premiums count towards the contribution caps.
Restricted to indemnity policies where the benefit amount is usually limited to what income the client earned 12-24 months before becoming temporarily incapacitated.
Ancillary benefits such as critical illness benefits cannot be provided as benefits through superannuation are limited to a non-commutable income stream in substitution for the income the client was receiving before incapacity.
Additional fees may be payable when funding premiums by way of rollover from another complying superannuation fund.
Income protection benefits may cease if the life insured becomes permanently disabled and the trustee determines that the client no longer meets the definition of temporary incapacity.
INCOME PROTECTION OUTSIDE OF SUPERANNUATION
Owning income protection outside of superannuation can provide clients with more product features and flexibility when compared with owning insurance inside superannuation. Below are some of the main advantages and disadvantages when it comes to having a personally owned income protection policy.   

Advantages

Premiums are generally tax deductible for the client if they are both the life insured and the policy owner.
Can provide protection even if the life insured is not employed at the time of incapacity.
Ability to choose between indemnity value or agreed value cover – under agreed value cover a claim payment is generally based on the client’s income at the time of application (even if their income has since reduced).
Policies are customisable and available under different ownership structures (e.g. may be used for business purposes, such as covering business expenses in the event of illness or injury).
Policies can provide more comprehensive coverage, including ancillary benefits such trauma, rehabilitation expenses, relocation benefits and carer costs.
May be able to exchange ongoing payments for a lump sum benefit.

Disadvantages

If the income protection policy provides for benefits of an income and capital nature, the ATO’s view is that only that part of the premium attributable to the income benefit is deductible [1].
Pre-existing medical conditions and lifestyle factors such as smoking may impact the cost of premiums (whereas group insurance inside superannuation may have automatic acceptance).
As premiums are generally paid personally from after-tax income [2], a waiting period that meets a client’s needs may not be affordable, particularly if no sick pay is available
As PAYG tax is generally not withheld from benefit payments, clients must remember to declare the whole amount received on their annual tax return.
TIP
When it comes to helping clients compare life and TPD insurance cover, it’s important to look at both the value of the cover and how much it will cost.

AIA has a helpful tool called “Comparison of insurance premiums funded inside vs outside of super” which compares the value of $1,000 worth of premium and how much it will cost a client when paying with:

Pre-tax dollars (i.e. by way of salary sacrifice or personal deductible contributions) inside superannuation, versus
Paying for premiums personally with after-tax dollars.

This tool can be used as a visual guide to help clients compare the gross cost of premiums at each individual marginal tax rate.

SPLIT POLICIES
Split polices are an alternative option for clients who want the best of both ownership structures. Having a split policy can provide clients with the benefits of owning insurance through superannuation whilst also providing them with enhanced cover and ancillary benefits outside of superannuation. Two policies are issued where one is owned within superannuation by the trustee of the superannuation fund on behalf of the client and the second policy is personally owned by the client who is the life insured. Both polices must remain active and if one policy lapses or is cancelled, the linked policy will also be cancelled.

When it comes to weighing up the option of having a split policy, the same pros and cons of having insurance inside versus outside superannuation apply. For example, clients can tailor what cover is inside and outside of superannuation and not compromise their level of cover. This is because a linked policy outside of superannuation gives clients access to enhanced cover and optional benefits that are not available inside superannuation.

However, there are some extra factors that clients should consider when it comes to split policies, such as:

The client cannot choose which policy they are paid under upon claim time. If an income protection claim is made, it will firstly be assessed under the superannuation policy.
The insured monthly benefit amount under both income protection policies must be the same at all times.
The total benefit payable under both policies cannot exceed the total insured monthly benefit under the superannuation income protection plan.
If the insured monthly benefit is reduced under either the superannuation policy or the linked benefit under the ordinary policy, the same reduction may apply to the other policy

kiama

SUMMARY
Making the right choice when purchasing income protection insurance will depend on the different requirements of each client. For example, clients who have sufficient cash flow may be better suited to having income protection outside superannuation whereas clients with uncertain cash flows, such as small business owners or young families with tight finances, might be better off insuring their incomes inside superannuation - noting that clients’ situations and needs may change over time.

As this is a complex area for clients to navigate alone, it is important for advisers to explain to their clients the advantages and disadvantages of insurance policy ownership and the benefit of regularly reviewing their insurance needs.

FPC-S

雷拜客 发表于 2020-11-16 00:32
非常感谢。不过看了你写的，感觉还是有好多看不懂啊，甚至都不敢买了

保险已经属于比较简单的了, 不懂的慢慢问或者学习吧.

至于买保险, 先考虑有没有需求, 再说懂不懂你买得什么.

FPC-S

bigmark 发表于 2020-11-16 06:44
感觉在super里保险好像没什么用处？

对于现金流比较充裕的家庭本来就没什么用.

不过对于需要保险, 然后个人或者家庭现金流又紧的人来说只不过提供了一种选择, 毕竟有没有和值不值是2个问题.

FPC-S

f221644 发表于 2020-11-16 08:57
可以看看这个http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1596502&mobile=yes

你发的这个帖子讨论的是医疗保险, 和人寿保险是两个概念.

医疗保险在属性上属于general insurance, 是不需要advice的.

FPC-S

kiama 发表于 2020-11-16 09:24
https://www.aia.com.au/en/adviser/business-growth-hub/adviser-news/archive/2019/Income-Protection-in ...

这篇文章发表于19年2月, 今年4月30以后IP有比较重大的改变, 不过文章的大部分还是有效的.

雷拜客

FPC-S 发表于 2020-11-16 16:04
这篇文章发表于19年2月, 今年4月30以后IP有比较重大的改变, 不过文章的大部分还是有效的. ...

谢谢解答

f221644

FPC-S 发表于 2020-11-16 15:01
你发的这个帖子讨论的是医疗保险, 和人寿保险是两个概念.

医疗保险在属性上属于general insurance, 是不 ...

后面也有些人寿保险，重疾

FPC-S

f221644 发表于 2020-11-16 16:22
后面也有些人寿保险，重疾

嗯, 不错, 挺详细的. 我就提两点建议.

1. 单纯的人寿并不能使理赔免于受益人的债权人索赔. 资产保护人寿只是第一步, 你还要加上一个testamentary trust.
2. 人寿保额的上限和你的收入有关, 我自己最高做过1200万的人寿, 每个年龄段在underwriting里面都有相对应的最高倍数.

ewanka

FPC-S 发表于 2020-11-16 16:50
嗯, 不错, 挺详细的. 我就提两点建议.

1. 单纯的人寿并不能使理赔免于受益人的债权人索赔. 资产保护人寿 ...

学习了

junction

super里的保险不能当deduction

linzexu

记得几年前税法说：如果是单列income protection保险金的话可以扣税，如果和其他混一起，就不能抵税。个人理解仅供参考，使用前请查证，不负法律责任。

雷拜客

linzexu 发表于 2020-11-17 07:24
记得几年前税法说：如果是单列income protection保险金的话可以扣税，如果和其他混一起，就不能抵税。个人 ...

有说TPD和life可以扣税吗？