请考Taxation的同学看看这道题

mouse006

on 1 jan 2008, Cara Green, aged 24, commenced practice as a physiotherapist conducting her own business.

For the year ending 30 Jun 2008, she received $36000 from patients; however, she was still owned $5000 from patients. In order to finance the business she sold shares for $14000 that she had acquired in 1999 at a cost of $10000.

For the year ending 30 Jun 2008, she incurred general business expenses of $8000 of which $6000 had been paid. Inclued in the $6000 that had been paid was $2000 that related to office rental for the period 1 Jan 2008 to 31 Dec 2008.

Her taxable income for the year ending 30 Jun 2008 is:

A $30000
B $31000
C $32000
D $33008.


我选了C,觉得只有6000 paid 可以低扣,但答案是A, 8000全部低扣了.不明白?

[ 本帖最后由 mouse006 于 2009-5-5 20:25 编辑 ]

Artcore

Ｄ）　Rental expenses need to be pro rata to 30 June 2008

summer2205

这道 题我也较糊涂，2000的rental 应该已包含在已付的6000元内。不知为何答案还要再加2000？

你倒很有钻研精神哦，比起你来，我真有点惭愧呀。

这个好像不是会计问题，而是语言理解问题。

[ 本帖最后由 summer2205 于 2009-5-5 20:28 编辑 ]

mouse006

原帖由 summer2205 于 2009-5-5 20:25 发表
这道 题我也较糊涂，2000的rental 应该已包含在已付的6000元内。不知为何答案还要再加2000？

你倒很有钻研精神哦，比起你来，我真有点惭愧呀。

临阵抹枪啊

冬菇茶

原帖由 Artcore 于 2009-5-5 19:27 发表
Ｄ）　Rental expenses need to be pro rata to 30 June 2008

agree.

it's prepaid as at 1 Jan 08 for $2000, so as at 30 Jun 08, only $1,000 is still as prepaid.

Per TD 93/118, prepaid amount less than $1,000 (excluding input tax credit) is excluded from the prepayment rules.

Also, it didn't mentioned that accural basis is used. so if accounts receivables is considered as income, accounts payable should be deductible.

我觉得题目的DEDUCTION 是考两点:一个是PREPAID RENT 可以DEDUCT, 一个是整个8,000 BUSINESS EXPENSE 可以DEDUCT.

[ 本帖最后由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-5 20:54 编辑 ]

冬菇茶

原帖由 summer2205 于 2009-5-5 20:25 发表
这道 题我也较糊涂，2000的rental 应该已包含在已付的6000元内。不知为何答案还要再加2000？

你倒很有钻研精神哦，比起你来，我真有点惭愧呀。

这个好像不是会计问题，而是语言理解问题。

我觉得问题想问的是$8,000 里面的$2,000 + $6000.....

[ 本帖最后由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-5 20:33 编辑 ]

summer2205

回复很快呀，后天就考试了，复习得怎样？

哎，真后悔报tax，那么多rule，这几天看书看都有呕吐的感觉。

summer2205

misunderstood? which one please?

Inclued in the $6000 that had been paid was $2000....

不是说6000中的2000是付过的吗？

[ 本帖最后由 summer2205 于 2009-5-5 20:36 编辑 ]

爱吃糖的小猪

我觉得是语言理解问题.

qisiwole

原帖由 mouse006 于 2009-5-5 19:21 发表
on 1 jan 2008, Cara Green, aged 24, commenced practice as a physiotherapist conducting her own business.

For the year ending 30 Jun 2008, she received $36000 from patients; however, she was still  ...

small business can get deduction if the prepayment for the period less than 12 monthes

from ato

How to treat prepaid expenses

Generally, the prepayment rules mean that you must apportion deductions for certain prepaid expenses of $1,000 or more over the income years that the goods or services are provided.

However, if you are a small business and you satisfy the 12-month rule, you can choose to deduct those prepaid expenses immediately.

You must apportion the deduction over the income years that the goods or services are provided if:

the prepaid expense does not meet the 12-month rule, or
you choose not to claim an immediate deduction.
There are some prepaid expenses that the prepayment rules do not apply to. You do not have to apportion them and you can deduct them immediately, even if:

the expense does not meet the 12-month rule, or
you are not a small business.

[ 本帖最后由 qisiwole 于 2009-5-5 20:42 编辑 ]

summer2205

原帖由 qisiwole 于 2009-5-5 20:38 发表



can get deduction if the prepayment for the period less than 12 monthes

是可以deduct,这没有异议。

但是我的理解是这已经包括在已付的6000元内，而这一年也只能deduct 6000元。所以得出的答案与标准答案不一致。

qisiwole

原帖由 summer2205 于 2009-5-5 20:44 发表


是可以deduct,这没有异议。

但是我的理解是这已经包括在已付的6000元内，而这一年也只能deduct 6000元。所以得出的答案与标准答案不一致。

For the year ending 30 Jun 2008, she incurred general business expenses of $8000 of which $6000 had been paid. Inclued in the $6000 that had been paid was $2000 that related to office rental for the period 1 Jan 2008 to 31 Dec 2008.

so 6000 paid and 2000 not paid. even not paid, this 2000 is still deductible

冬菇茶

不好意思, 偶第一眼看就觉得是6,000 + 2,000 = 8,000

再看, 人家问的是8,000 里面, 2,000 PAYABLE, 6,000 里面的2,000 是1月1号的PREPAYMENT.

esor

猜一下
是不是 36,000-8,000+2,000（capital gain/2）=30,000

老杏

原帖由 summer2205 于 2009-5-5 20:33 发表
misunderstood? which one please?

Inclued in the $6000 that had been paid was $2000....

不是说6000中的2000是付过的吗？

这句的意思是在已经付过的6000里面，有2000是用来交房租的.

mouse006

原帖由 esor 于 2009-5-5 21:24 发表
猜一下
是不是 36,000-8,000+2,000（capital gain/2）=30,000

是这么算的,可为啥抵8000呢?

冬菇茶

如果把accounts receivable 当做TAXABLE INCOME, 为什么不把accounts payable 当作 tax deduction 呢?

[ 本帖最后由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-5 22:49 编辑 ]

maccat

似乎这里account receivable $5000完全被忽视了。。。

mouse006

原帖由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-5 22:15 发表
如果把accounts receivable 当做TAXABLE INCOME, 为什么不把accounts payable 当作 tax deduction 呢?

答案试同他为cash basis,not accrual basis的small business,所以我糊涂啊

esor

原帖由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-5 22:15 发表
如果把accounts receivable 当做TAXABLE INCOME, 为什么不把accounts payable 当作 tax deduction 呢?

同意。

糊里糊涂

1. 因为是small business ,所以此题,我更倾向于选择CASH BASIS.  所以还未收到的5000不算入assessable income.

2. 在CASH　BASIS 上, 收入是入帐了才算, 但是deduction are claimed in the year the expenses are incurred. 这里INCURRED 的含义如下.  
             If expenditure has been incurred (but not actually paid),
              a deduction is only allowable to the extend that the expenditure is probably referable to the income year.
             所以俺认为,8000中的7000 是为了产生当税务年度的INCOME 发生的. 所以可以DEDUCT.  

3. Prepayment of rent. ($1000), 在small business entity里,是可以在发生此费用的那一年deduct 的.  
   (因为此费用不是因避税而故意产生的, 所以你可以选择将2000块全部deduct 或是pro rata, 我想做题人倾向于全部deduct)

所以他的taxable income 是(36000-8000)+2000=30000.

个人看法,不对的地方请给予纠正.TKS

[ 本帖最后由 糊里糊涂 于 2009-5-6 14:39 编辑 ]

冬菇茶

偶不认为这道题和small business 有关, 虽然题目的收入不算很多.

原因: 题目没有点明是small business, it's just a business, but not even mention partnership or company. small business is a test when you calculate your taxable income and determine whether you are eligible for consession or simplified tax system.

the question is asking "her taxable income for the year ended 30 June 2008", ie Cara Green is a sole trader provideding personal service income.  如果偶的理解正确的话, Cara 的收入计算只可以用 cash basis.

thus, assessable income = 36,000 + capital gain of $2,000 (calculated as ($14,000 - 10,000)/2 = $2,000 using 50/50 discount method)

allowable deduction = 6,000

taxable income = 38,000-6,000=32,000.

[ 本帖最后由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-6 14:36 编辑 ]

糊里糊涂

原帖由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-6 14:25 发表
偶不认为这道题和small business 有关, 虽然题目的收入不算很多.

原因: 题目没有点明是small business, it's just a business, but not even mention partnership or company. small business is a test when you ...

第一: 她有carry on business,
第二: 她的annual turnover 是少于2M.

所以她是有满足SBE test 的
选择 SBE 是为了减少纳税人的税务压力, 所以我认为可以APPLY SBE Concession.

maudweekend

从2005/06年起，STS taxpayer可以选择继续用STS accounting method，也可以选择从以下里面选一个对这个business更合适的。
1. traditional cash accounting method recognises income when received and deductible expenses when incurred(Taxation Ruling TR97/7)
2. accrual accounting
如果Cara不选择继续用STS accounting，另两个都recognise expenses when incurred.
但是如果我们选accrual accounting的话，我们就要把$5000也要算进去这样她的收入就变高了，要多交税。因此我们选择traditional cash accounting method.收入以收到的钱算，支出按发生的算

maudweekend

这个在书本的6.3页 Simplified Tax System第三段有说

冬菇茶

i think i agree with you on the SBE, but i don't think it's the question point. So if we all agree that she's a SBE, what kind of concession she can get now?

a general reminder that in the CPA exam, the question should be answered within 3 minutes.....

糊里糊涂

原帖由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-6 14:50 发表
i think i agree with you on the SBE, but i don't think it's the question point. So if we all agree that she's a SBE, what kind of concession she can get now?

a general reminder that in the CPA exam ...

SBE的 prepayment是有concession 的! 为了那1000块的房租拉, 而且如果是现实情况,搞不好可以apply  那个 25%的tax offset 的.

我觉得这题的考点也就是那个prepayment 啦. 个人认为.

冬菇茶

but the question is only asking for Cara's taxable income............at the moment, getthing through the exam is all we need.....which candidate really cares about the reality.

[ 本帖最后由 冬菇茶 于 2009-5-6 15:05 编辑 ]

糊里糊涂

再次说下:

Assessable income 是毫无疑问的使用 cash basis. 所以只有36000 + 2000= 38000


问题的关键是在于你如何得出allowable deduction.

产生的费用有 8000. 以支付6000, 再这6000里面,有2000是付的房租, 而这2000房租中有1000是prepayment.  另外还有2000已发生但还没支付.

根据cash basis来算, 可以deduct的支出是要发生在此税务年度, 所以8000中有7000是为了产生此年度的income而发生的费用, 所以不管有没有支付,7000都是allowable deduction.  (注已支付5000, 欠2000)

剩下的那已经支付的1000块预付房租, 根据SBE,是allowable deduction.

综上所叙, 她的allowable deduction 就是$8000.

所以他的taxable income 是30000.

[ 本帖最后由 糊里糊涂 于 2009-5-6 15:24 编辑 ]

janine

commenced practice as a physiotherapist ，就是提示你他用CASH BASIS. 书上说MEDICIAL PRACTICE 等用CASH BASIS 比较合适。

同意糊里糊涂 的。这道题考的就是CASH BASIS + ALLOWABLE DEDUCTION.