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楼主:edith921

[北美] 特朗普签署行政命令禁止19岁以下人士进行性别转换 [复制链接]

发表于 2025-1-31 06:56 |显示全部楼层
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12oz 发表于 2025-1-30 20:21
对于Paul R. McHugh,刚刚看了简介,他后来变得非常保守。但不可否认的是,他在医学界很长时间,作为医学的 ...

医学问题是相信个人 还是相信医学共同体

个人的能力再突出也是不能与医学共同体相比的吧?
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发表于 2025-1-31 06:59 |显示全部楼层
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12oz 发表于 2025-1-30 20:39
一边说相信医学和医生,一边认为医生对孩子进行弊大于利的治疗,你自己不觉得矛盾吗?

请问接受了青春期 ...

【 技术和认知都在发展,已经说过,不是所有的专家都支持这种治疗,这没什么矛盾的。难道你真认为没有任何人接受这些药物治疗后后悔的?】

所以这是一个医学专业问题 为什么总统要用行政命令的方式禁止呢 毕竟总统是非医学专业人士

发表于 2025-1-31 07:02 |显示全部楼层
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clovedsm 发表于 2025-1-30 20:54
医学和医生也有局限。尤其是新疗法更需要谨慎。癌症 罕见病这种属于万不得已必须尝试。不然的话还是多考 ...

【医学和医生也有局限。尤其是新疗法更需要谨慎。癌症 罕见病这种属于万不得已必须尝试。不然的话还是多考虑一下的好。即使卖了许多年的药 也有各种轻重不同的副作用。何况是这些新开发的药物,长期效果尚未验证。天天吃panadol都有害导致要把包装变小。】

任何药物和疗法 都有副作用 都是医疗专业人员与病患之间权衡利弊的结果

panadol是有人滥用和过量服用 是非常安全的非处方药物 低至仨个月龄的幼儿都可以服用

发表于 2025-1-31 07:05 |显示全部楼层
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clovedsm 发表于 2025-1-30 20:54
医学和医生也有局限。尤其是新疗法更需要谨慎。癌症 罕见病这种属于万不得已必须尝试。不然的话还是多考 ...

【比方醛固酮阻断剂理论上可以阻断醛固酮过量对身体的影响,然而最近发现长期服用会导致机体产生醛固酮逃逸 目前尚没有办法解决。患者长期心血管病发生率依然高好几倍。
这些还不包括药物对心理上的影响,更加难以确定。】

所以绝对安全的疗法和药物过去 现在 未来都不会存在

但是不能因此不去应用 否则人类的健康会遭受更大的损失

你说对吗?

发表于 2025-1-31 07:14 |显示全部楼层
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Tuka00 发表于 2025-1-31 06:10
你和你的同伴在评论的时候可以从个人攻击的角度转向事实吗?比如你们也列一下普遍承认的科学报道和政府的 ...

【他的女儿要和一个生理男性也许是性癖predator共用一个卫生间,】

所以你默认转性别者是predator?

澳洲有这样的案例吗?

呵呵

发表于 2025-1-31 08:04 |显示全部楼层
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krel 发表于 2025-1-31 00:50
我就想知道作为一个父亲天天上街,收入哪里来,孩子谁照顾,这样人哪里来的脸皮告诉别人怎么做父亲 ...

确实,他为了忽悠粉丝,居然公开造谣抹黑一个残疾人,完全没有做人的底线。

其实不少保守的国人都是这样,宁可几年如一日在网上哭嚎“救救孩子”,也不愿意花10分钟了解一下相关的医学和法律常识,从来没有考虑过孩子如果得了性别焦虑症怎么办。孩子只是个幌子。
论坛发帖对事不对人,得罪之处请见谅!
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发表于 2025-1-31 08:23 |显示全部楼层
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Tuka00 发表于 2025-1-31 07:10
你和你的同伴在评论的时候可以从个人攻击的角度转向事实吗?比如你们也列一下普遍承认的科学报道和政府的 ...

这种有“鸿鹄之志”的,阿富汗满街都是,只要放消息说要征集志愿者去美国干这个,分分钟凑出一百万个“鸿鹄之志”。

跨性别者按照自认的性别使用卫生间已经在澳洲实行了很多年,按照澳洲0.9%的跨性别者比例,如果你女儿超过10岁,这些年已经跟生理男性的跨性别者一起上了不知多少次厕所了,貌似你也没什么意见。

相反,如果按你的意思,强制那些目前使用男厕所的生理女性跨性别者使用女厕所,结果就是你女儿跟一些外表看起来完全是个大叔的人一起上厕所,你认为你女儿会觉得更安全?

更滑稽的是,在这种情况下,你所谓的predator甚至都不用假扮成女性就可以进女厕所,自称生理女性就可以了,难道你女儿还能扒下他的裤子检查?

论坛发帖对事不对人,得罪之处请见谅!

发表于 2025-1-31 08:55 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox 发表于 2025-1-31 08:14
【他的女儿要和一个生理男性也许是性癖predator共用一个卫生间,】

所以你默认转性别者是predator?

你无论在生理上,心理上,医学上,你和同性恋没什么不同, 你认同这句话不。

发表于 2025-1-31 09:20 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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taijiquan 发表于 2025-1-31 08:55
你无论在生理上,心理上,医学上,你和同性恋没什么不同, 你认同这句话不。  ...


同理也适用于你 对吗?

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发表于 2025-1-31 09:23 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox 发表于 2025-1-31 10:20
同理也适用于你 对吗?

这一句话是你自己在之前的帖子自己说的,,你自己认同,我们都不认同。

发表于 2025-1-31 09:24 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox 发表于 2025-1-31 10:20
同理也适用于你 对吗?

这一句话是你自己在之前的帖子自己说的,,你自己认同,我们都不认同。
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发表于 2025-1-31 09:24 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 taijiquan 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 taijiquan 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
hgaox 发表于 2025-1-31 10:20
同理也适用于你 对吗?

这一句话是你自己在之前的帖子自己说的,,你自己认同,我们都不认同。

发表于 2025-1-31 09:27 |显示全部楼层
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首先,非常感谢你分享Cass报告,大概读了一下,学习了很多东西。

但是,很明显,你自己是没有仔细读过的,因为你说的跟Cass报告表达的完全是两码事,严重曲解了报告的内容。

Cass报告没有任何地方提到反对未成年人性别转化,相反多次强调要扩展和加强相关服务,比如把儿童和青少年服务机构的服务对象从17岁以下扩大到0-25岁。Cass报告还强调了反对转化(掰直)疗法,心理干预的目的不是改变人们对自己的看法,而是与他们合作,探索他们的担忧和经历,帮助缓解他们的痛苦,给他们提供情感支持。

Cass报告也没有说要禁止青春期阻断剂,而是说在过去五到十年里,寻求帮助的未成年人迅速增加,且主要为生理女性,而以前的临床治疗方法是基于生理男性的,所以需要更多证据证明其有效性。青春期阻断剂已经被暂停提供给新患者,英国正在进行一项临床试验,如果结果证明青春期阻断剂确实对患者有益,那么就会恢复使用。同时,Cass报告也提到了荷尔蒙治疗,强调需要谨慎使用,但16岁就可以使用,无需等到18岁。

Cass报告从头到尾都在谈如何更好地为未成年性别焦虑症患者服务,让他们得到更有效的治疗,这才是治病救人的应有态度。跟特朗普这种一刀切、污名化医生、否认治疗必要性的政策从根本上是对立的。

https://cass.independent-review. ... /final-report-faqs/

Has the Review recommended that no one should transition before the age of 25 and that Gillick competence should be overturned?

No.  The Review has not commented on the use of masculinising/feminising hormones on people over the age of 18. This is outside of the scope of the Review. The Review has not stated that Gillick competence should be overturned.

The Review has recommended that:

“NHS England should ensure that each Regional Centre has a follow through service for 17-25-year-olds; either by extending the range of the regional children and young people’s service or through linked services, to ensure continuity of care and support at a potentially vulnerable stage in their journey. This will also allow clinical, and research follow-up data to be collected.”

This recommendation only relates to people referred into the children and young people’s service before the age of 17 to enable their care to be continued within the follow-through service up to the age of 25.


Clarification:

Currently, young people are discharged from the young people’s service at the age of 17, often to an adult gender clinic. Some of these young people have been receiving direct care from the NHS gender service (GIDS as was) and others have not yet reached the top of the waiting list and have “aged out” of the young people’s service before being seen.

The Review understands that this is a particularly vulnerable time for young people. A follow-through service continuing up to age 25, would remove the need for transition (that is, transfer) to adult services and support continuity of care and continued access to a broader multi-disciplinary team. This would be consistent with other service areas supporting young people that are selectively moving to a ‘0-25 years’ service to improve continuity of care.

The follow-through service would also benefit those seeking support from adult gender services, as these young people would not be added to the waiting list for adult services and, in the longer-term, as more gender services are established, capacity of adult provision across the country would be increased.

People aged 18 and over, who had not been referred to the NHS children and young people’s gender service, would still be referred directly to adult clinics.

Is the Review recommending that puberty blockers should be banned?
No. Puberty blocker medications are used to address a number of different conditions. The Review has considered the evidence in relation to safety and efficacy (clinical benefit) of the medications for use in young people with gender incongruence/gender dysphoria.

The Review found that not enough is known about the longer-term impacts of puberty blockers for children and young people with gender incongruence to know whether they are safe or not, nor which children might benefit from their use.

Ahead of publication of the final report NHS England took the decision to stop the routine use of puberty blockers for gender incongruence/gender dysphoria in children.  NHS England and National Institute for Health and Care Research (NIHR) are establishing a clinical trial to ensure the effects of puberty blockers can be safely monitored. Within this trial, puberty blockers will be available for children with gender incongruence/dysphoria where there is clinical agreement that the individual may benefit from taking them.


Clarification:

Puberty blockers have been used to suppress puberty in children and young people who start puberty much too early (precocious puberty). They have undergone extensive testing for use in precocious puberty (a very different indication from use in gender dysphoria) and have met strict safety requirements to be approved for this condition. This is because the puberty blockers are suppressing hormone levels that are abnormally high for the age of the child.

This is different to stopping the normal surge of hormones that occur in puberty. Pubertal hormones are needed for psychological, psychosexual and brain development, and there is not yet enough information on the risks of stopping the influence of pubertal hormones at this critical life stage.

When deciding if certain treatments should be routinely available through the NHS it is not enough to demonstrate that a medication doesn’t cause harm, it needs to be demonstrated that it will deliver clinical benefit in a defined group of patients.

Over the past few years, the most common age that young people have been receiving puberty blockers in England has been 15 when most young people are already well advanced in their puberty. The new services will be looking at the best approaches to support young people through this period when they are still making decisions about longer-term options.

What is the Review’s position on conversion therapy?
Whilst the Review’s terms of reference do not include consideration of the proposed legislation to ban conversion practices, it believes that no LGBTQ+ group should be subjected to conversion practice. It also maintains the position that children and young people with gender dysphoria may have a range of complex psychosocial challenges and/or mental health problems impacting on their gender-related distress. Exploration of these issues is essential to provide diagnosis, clinical support and appropriate intervention.

The intent of psychological intervention is not to change the person’s perception of who they are but to work with them to explore their concerns and experiences and help alleviate their distress, regardless of whether they pursue a medical pathway or not. It is harmful to equate this approach to conversion therapy as it may prevent young people from getting the emotional support they deserve and make clinicians fearful of providing this group of children and young people the same care as is afforded to other children and young people.

No formal science-based training in psychotherapy, psychology or psychiatry teaches or advocates conversion therapy. If an individual were to carry out such practices they would be acting outside of professional guidance, and this would be a matter for the relevant regulator.

Overview of Recommendations
The recommendations set out a different approach to healthcare, more closely aligned with usual NHS clinical practice that considers the young person holistically and not solely in terms of their gender-related distress. The central aim of assessment should be to help young people to thrive and achieve their life goals.

  • Services must operate to the same standards as other services seeing children and young people with complex presentations and/or additional risk factors.
  • Capacity should be expanded through a distributed service model, based in paediatric services and with stronger links between secondary and specialist services.
  • Children/young people referred to NHS gender services must receive a holistic assessment of their needs to inform an individualised care plan. This should include screening for neurodevelopmental conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and a mental health assessment.
  • Standard evidence based psychological and psychopharmacological treatment approaches should be used to support the management of the associated distress from gender incongruence and cooccurring conditions, including support for parents/carers and siblings as appropriate.
  • Services should establish a separate pathway for pre-pubertal children and their families, ensuring that they are prioritised for early discussion about how parents can best support their child in a balanced and non-judgemental way. When families/carers are making decisions about social transition of pre-pubertal children, services should ensure that they can be seen as early as possible by a clinical professional with relevant experience.
  • NHS England should ensure that each Regional Centre has a follow-through service for 17–25-year-olds; either by extending the range of the regional children and young people’s service or through linked services, to ensure continuity of care and support at a potentially vulnerable stage in their journey.  This will also allow clinical and research follow up data to be collected.
  • There needs to be provision for people considering detransition, recognising that they may not wish to re-engage with the services whose care they were previously under.
  • A full programme of research should be established to look at the characteristics, interventions and outcomes of every young person presenting to the NHS gender services.
  • The puberty blocker trial previously announced by NHS England should be part of a programme of research which also evaluates outcomes of psychosocial interventions and masculinising/ feminising hormones.
  • The option to provide masculinising/feminising hormones from age 16 is available, but the Review recommends extreme caution. There should be a clear clinical rationale for providing hormones at this stage rather than waiting until an individual reaches 18.  Every case considered for medical treatment should be discussed at a national Multi- Disciplinary Team (MDT).
  • Implications of private healthcare on any future requests to the NHS for treatment, monitoring and/or involvement in research, and the dispensing responsibilities of pharmacists of private prescriptions needs to be clearly communicated.

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论坛发帖对事不对人,得罪之处请见谅!

发表于 2025-1-31 10:09 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 krel 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 krel 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
hgaox 发表于 2025-1-31 08:14
【他的女儿要和一个生理男性也许是性癖predator共用一个卫生间,】

所以你默认转性别者是predator?


这种predator以及男子参与女子体育的说法,恰恰支持了男变女一定要手术,还要趁早。

发表于 2025-1-31 12:01 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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taijiquan 发表于 2025-1-31 09:23
这一句话是你自己在之前的帖子自己说的,,你自己认同,我们都不认同。 ...

但是临床证据表明同性性取向与异性性取向在生理 心理都是一样的

发表于 2025-1-31 12:02 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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krel 发表于 2025-1-31 10:09
这种predator以及男子参与女子体育的说法,恰恰支持了男变女一定要手术,还要趁早。 ...

说法还是事实?
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发表于 2025-2-1 08:51 |显示全部楼层
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Tuka00 发表于 2025-1-31 07:10
你和你的同伴在评论的时候可以从个人攻击的角度转向事实吗?比如你们也列一下普遍承认的科学报道和政府的 ...

“Cass report客观上终止了政府拨款”?如果拨款被终止,现有的患者还能继续使用青春期阻断剂?还会组织官方的临床试验?还会把青少年服务机构的服务范围从17岁以下扩大到0-25岁?还会建议诊所对16岁以上患者谨慎使用荷尔蒙不用等到18岁?事实就是,政府拨款不但没有被终止,反而大概率增加了。另外,欧洲确实有几个国家减少了对未成年性别焦虑症患者的药物治疗,但人家那是基于一线医生多年的临床实践而不是粗暴的行政命令。更重要的是,那几个都是极度“纵容”跨性别者的国家,比如丹麦从小学开始就有彻底详细的性教育课程,15岁孩子就可以不经父母同意使用荷尔蒙,瑞典去年把无需诊断性别焦虑症即可变更法定性别的最低年龄从 18 岁降低到 16 岁。这这种社会环境下,性别焦虑症孩子的心理压力和被bully的可能远小于其他国家,当然可以减少药物的使用。但是,你觉得澳洲要跟他们学吗?

没有人“支持大范围地推行儿童变性治疗”,性别焦虑症是一种会导致30%自杀率60%自残率的严重疾病,该不该治、怎么治、什么时候治应该听医生的,如果哪天医学界发现一种不用药物和手术就能治愈性别焦虑症的方式,我举双手赞成。
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