说说我和三菱保修的故事，顺便希望大家提供信息

radonradon

前任也是首任车主住在Fraser Island？还有可能联系上他人吗？查了下这个岛，最宽的地方才22公里，这个数字很尴尬，三菱声称住在离海岸线20公里之内的，车主就需要对车子做proper care and maintenance以确保perforation corrosion warranty. 如果前任车主肯帮忙，且有证据表明自己拥车时都做到了proper care and maintenance那可能就好办一些。

Fraser Island is one of the world's most unusual islands. Not only is it the largest sand island in the world – 123 kilometres (76 miles) long and 22 kilometres (14 miles) wide – but it's the only place on Earth where tall rainforests grow on sand dunes at elevations of more than 200 metres (656 feet).

radonradon

关于“gearbox shaft是被三菱维修时损坏的”这一点有没有什么证据支撑没？

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-15 23:36
前任也是首任车主住在Fraser Island？还有可能联系上他人吗？查了下这个岛，最宽的地方才22公里，这个数字 ...

这个基本上不可能啊。三菱就是抵赖啊。他说我找错了诉讼对象。

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-15 23:19
这个基本上不可能啊。三菱就是抵赖啊。他说我找错了诉讼对象。

……

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-15 23:42
关于“gearbox shaft是被三菱维修时损坏的”这一点有没有什么证据支撑没？

三菱的借口是因为拆零件时生锈才断裂的。另外，三菱和Dealer不是一起，我原来的理解，我不管dealer和你什么关系，你自己的销售商，为什么自己不管好。
现在三菱把所有的责任都推的干干净净，什么和他都没有关系。用户的车生锈，是因为保养不当。他们自己的车生锈，是表面生锈，所有的车都一样。完全无底线而言，缺少一个应有的跨国企业的担当。

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-15 23:23
三菱的借口是因为拆零件时生锈才断裂的。另外，三菱和Dealer不是一起，我原来的理解，我不管dealer和你什 ...

这个地方是百思不得其解，可能是你这车的这个gear shaft刚好有材料缺陷而致使疲劳强度过低，或者装配时有问题比如misalignment导致有个弯曲预应力，加上前任车主可能的确疏于养护而生锈过重或者缺少lubrication，甚或可能遭受过某种外力（比如海滩上浪的时候有车陷住，前任车主硬拖、猛拖，导致overloading），最后断了。这个东西还是挺粗的，完全锈透而一拆卸就断掉好像几率也比较低。言而总之太复杂了，我看网上有人用电子显微镜观察断掉的截面的纹路进行分析：

The failure of a high-speed pinion gear shaft was investigated. The pinion gear was an integral part of a system used to compress the natural gas. It was a high-speed gear mounted on two roller bearings. An abnormal wear pattern was observed on the shaft surface, beneath the inner race of the bearing. The material from shaft was observed to be dislodged and stuck to the surface of the inner race. This transfer of material imparted an imbalance to the assembly, and abnormal sounds and fumes were observed two days before failure. The macrofeatures of the fracture surface resemble these of fatigue but electron microscopy showed brittle and mostly intergranular fracture. Fatigue features such as striations were not found on the fracture surfaces. Fatigue samples made from the same material and heat-treated to the same hardness were tested under uniaxial fatigue and the fracture features were compared with the original crack surface. The microfeatures of fracture surfaces were almost identical. The root cause of failure was determined to be fatigue, and cracks on the pinion shaft in the region beneath the inner bearing race lead to the transfer of material.

这是网上找的Falcon XE的断掉的gear shaft。他这个几乎没有什么锈蚀，但是仍然断了：

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-16 00:51
这个地方是百思不得其解，可能是你这车的这个gear shaft刚好有材料缺陷而致使疲劳强度过低，或者装配时有 ...

谢谢兄弟，不知道您是学那个专业，专业知识渊博，令在下佩服。
三菱的邮件我贴在下面了,这个是在我上法院诉讼之前的回复。在没有任何证据的情况下就说是在含盐的环境中操作。dealer弄断的是和减速箱链接的换挡轴，和换挡线连的。三菱和dealer 也有问题，为什么在拆除之前不知道可以弄断呢？

Please be advised that Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited (MMAL) rely on authorised dealers to diagnose and repair Mitsubishi vehicles under the Terms and Conditions of the warranty on our behalf as they have firsthand knowledge of the vehicle and have access to the MMAL Technical Support team for advice if required.

The vehicle was presented to xx dealer Mitsubishi with heavy rust on most underbody components from operating in salty environments. Gear selector lever and range switch on the side of the transmission have been affected by rust and the selector shaft broke when trying to remove the securing nut. Rear air conditioning has been damaged and bypassed.

The MMAL Regional Service Manager for WA has inspected your vehicle and agrees with the assessment made by the dealer that the damage is not the result of a manufacturing defect and therefore, repairs will not be covered under warranty.

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-16 00:09
谢谢兄弟，不知道您是学那个专业，专业知识渊博，令在下佩服。
三菱的邮件我贴在下面了,这个是在我上法院 ...

其实打官司就跟打牌一样，要猜对方手里可能有什么牌——知己知彼，然后看自己还能打出什么牌来绝处逢生。最后一把牌压住了对方，你就赢了。我现在想到的最有力的可能就是前任车主能否站出来支援一把，如果能，再制定反击策略。

radonradon

的确有一些陈述对你不是太有利，打官司讲求的是证据，不是推理——哪怕再合理的推理。就现在的法律法规来说，这个perforation corrosion warranty的确很扯，你如果住海边，除非你天天洗车并用鼓风机迅速风干， 确保车里车外零件表面上的PH值都是7，然后每次都录下视频并一直保留。不然法官估计也懵逼，购车合同里都明示了，车主有义务做proper care and maintenance，法官也不好下手。太难了。

但是对于三菱或dealer，他所能依仗的也就是这个perforation corrosion warranty，毕竟装配缺陷可能他们也不知道，材料缺陷可能得去做检验，如果是外力致损他们又没证据，怎么办？法律上他只好拿环境说事儿。

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-16 01:25
的确有一些陈述对你不是太有利，打官司讲求的是证据，不是推理——哪怕再合理的推理。就现在的法律法规来说 ...

是啊，我询问他们关于使用环境的空气盐度以及湿度的具体指标。他们也没回。他们提供的就是
The Explanation of Warranty states what is not covered under warranty being, “Environmental damage such as stone chipping, hail damage, bird or insect droppings, airborne fall out, chemicals etc. is not covered”.
The Warranty is subject to the proper care and maintenance of the Vehicle as recommended in the Vehicle
Owner’s Manual which provides for:
“Sea Water Spray in Coastal Conditions
Sea water contains salt, which generally accelerates corrosion of both ferrous and non-ferrous materials. Wind borne spray from the sea can distribute salt for a distance of up to 20 km from the shore line with prevailing onshore winds, although the effect is generally worse within 2 km of the shore. Salt Spray covers roads, and may be passed to your vehicle including the underside (not forgetting the engine bay and engine bay components). See section entitled “Engine Compartment” for recommended cleaning practices.
Ensure you request your authorised Mitsubishi Motors dealer to conduct the scheduled Preventative Maintenance corrosion inspection if you live within 20km of the sea. “
The previous owner used and operated the Vehicle for 4x4 beach tours on Fraser Island QLD where it is likely the environmental damage has been caused.
Warranty is also subject to the Vehicle being serviced according to the service schedule. The Vehicle has not been serviced as per the service schedule and no proof of it being serviced in accordance with the service schedule has been provided.
他们他妈的前面说:
5) The Defendant denies paragraph 5 of the Claim and says that:
a) The Vehicle has not been regularly serviced by Mitsubishi as per the service guide;
b) The Vehicle had been serviced by an authorised dealer on one occasion for the 30,000 km service and says that:
i) This service was prior to the Claimant taking ownership of the Vehicle;
ii) The Defendant is unaware of any issues being present during that 30,000 km service.
c) The Defendant denies the issue was not evaluated, the issue was identified (selector cable) and shown to the Claimant who was at the time advised and shown the significant rust issues.

这句话怎么理解，前任车主包养了车，到我这里就不算保修依据了吗 ？三菱不知道30000公里保养是有什么问题。三菱不知道，你授权的dealer做保养，三菱自己不知道有什么问题。  这个也是三菱绝的理由，简直有点扯。你授权的dealer，按照你定的价格做了保养，一部分利润到你那里去了。出了问题，你就说你不知道dealer干了啥，和你没关系。真是烂到家了

xiangbalao

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-15 22:32
三菱承认之前的dealer申报的保样，但是不承认他们做了保样。
如果要注意些什么，三菱的系统里面难道能没 ...

严重怀疑楼主住在海里？我每天接触不下30辆三菱triton、pajero、outlander、ps政府fleet车辆，还真没遇到过你说的demo都有生锈。三菱的demo和新车2017年后出场的全部都有节点封蜡处理，10年你想看到底盘生锈只有可能你带着车去海边浪了，连普通河里折腾都不存在、你是不是住海滩上...别说三菱你看丰田保修里都写了海水侵蚀锈蚀不保，只要driving on the beach就void warranty了

xiangbalao

防锈处理市面上做的最好的是vw，第二就是三菱，第三是丰田，都是整车底盘侵泡封蜡处理，不走盐碱地是不肯能十年内锈蚀的。vw的蜡点更疯狂点、两层、你可以看看你买的新vw下面的屎黄就是第二次上蜡

sunpower03

xiangbalao 发表于 2020-10-16 01:47
严重怀疑楼主住在海里？我每天接触不下30辆三菱triton、pajero、outlander、ps政府fleet车辆，还真没遇到 ...

我真的怀疑你是不是真的仔细看了底盘。三菱自己都承认有生锈，机加工件没有防腐处理。但是他们也就只认表面，你知道如果钢材不做防腐处理，一旦生锈，锈蚀就会加速，不会停留的表面的。如下的邮件，他们承认了没做防腐，但不承认锈蚀后会腐蚀加重，真他妈鬼扯。
什么叫extremely aggresive enviorment?具体的指标是空气湿度和含盐度分别多少？
Dear xxx

Please be advised the rust you experienced on your vehicle is not the surface rust you believe you have inspected on the below vehicle and as advised by  Regional Manager xxx, these are untreated machine parts they are solid heavy components, and surface rust will go no further unless you operated them in an extremely aggressive environment and is quite common for all brands, not just Mitsubishi.

xiangbalao

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-16 02:00
我真的怀疑你是不是真的仔细看了底盘。三菱自己都承认有生锈，机加工件没有防腐处理。但是他们也就只认表 ...

...算了安慰下，你这个case真的没见过帮顶了，说句实话东南亚的气候环境是湿地盐碱最大的区域，那里丰田干不过三菱主要就是防锈的问题

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-16 00:37
是啊，我询问他们关于使用环境的空气盐度以及湿度的具体指标。他们也没回。他们提供的就是
The Explanati ...

那么这又有疑问：
你是如何知道问题在30000公里时就存在的？那时还是前任车主。
30000公里的保养都做了什么保养项目？
做的时候dealer真的没有给前任车主出具repair recommendation(s)吗？你是如何确知的？

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-16 08:01
那么这又有疑问：
你是如何知道问题在30000公里时就存在的？那时还是前任车主。
30000公里的保养都做了什 ...

我不确定，30000公里的问题我不确定。30000公里的保养
见附件

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-16 11:45
我不确定，30000公里的问题我不确定。30000公里的保养
见附件

……是想问你的车在30000公里时的保养都“做过”哪些项目啊

大饼

那根轴不是封在箱体里的怎么会被腐蚀？
dealer有物证和照片证据吗？

radonradon

Weird for something to be so heavily rusted if it wasn't run through salt water and not cleaned after causing so much rust for it to snap off... honestly the claimant's side of things doesn't seem to fully add up, plus a lot of spelling and grammar errors for a legal document... do they have a proper lawyer going through the documents prior to submission? Cause no lawyer vs overpaid mitsi lawyer i can tell you the outcome before it goes to court.

Hope you have some qualified engineering evidence to support their allegations. Do you have legal counsel  or  mounting this unrepresented?

节选两个鬼子的观点，供楼主参考吧。

radonradon

「Reading between lines of Mitsubishi's response in the document- selector cable seized, in process of trying to replace they have damaged the selector shaft that goes into transmission (has a number of points that could be susceptible to being very hard to disassemble if excessively corroded).
$1000 seems about right once you take into account dropping transmission sump and valve body, replacement of damaged shaft etc, and new oil.
Replacing entire transmission with secondhand unit appears to be due to excessive rust which i can only assume is all the bolts etc rusting away.
」
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-17 05:44
节选两个鬼子的观点，供楼主参考吧。

谢谢，发在那个论坛了啊，能否看看？谢谢

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-17 23:13
「Reading between lines of Mitsubishi's response in the document- selector cable seized, in process  ...

$1000 seems about right once you take into account dropping transmission sump and valve body, replacement of damaged shaft etc, and new oil.

如果$1000换个轴我早就弄了，省的废话了。dealer拧断了换挡轴，然后继续要5000 要继续换个2收减速箱啊。
换新的要$17,000

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-17 05:44
节选两个鬼子的观点，供楼主参考吧。

我这个诉讼写的很仓促，如果请律师，我相信下来估计不知道要花多少钱。
但是我相信澳洲法律是将证据的，而不是将拼写和语法。

我本身英语是第二语言，没什么值得我羞耻的。

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-17 23:02
谢谢，发在那个论坛了啊，能否看看？谢谢

嗯……回复的可能都有点悲观，别看了吧。

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-17 05:44
节选两个鬼子的观点，供楼主参考吧。

关于后面的，我已经问过了
他们的就说没有指标
是20公里以内，就每天冲车，路上有盐，对车形成腐蚀。
实际上，这个和地盘没关系了，车门里面的导轨都已经生锈的没了。
我贴照片上来

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-18 00:15
嗯……回复的可能都有点悲观，别看了吧。

没关系啊
无所谓了
多谢啊///

sunpower03

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-18 00:19
关于后面的，我已经问过了
他们的就说没有指标
是20公里以内，就每天冲车，路上有盐，对车形成腐蚀。

这个和冲有什么关系？再说路上的盐分如带到车门里面啊。
其实本身就是车的质量问题。

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-17 23:29
这个和冲有什么关系？再说路上的盐分如带到车门里面啊。
其实本身就是车的质量问题。 ...

如果确信三菱推脱责任，若是我的话我会先找个律师咨询一下，把情况沟通一下，然后问对方要不要接这个case。一般正式接case才开始收费，也不是贵出天际的那种贵。

sunpower03

radonradon 发表于 2020-10-18 00:39
如果确信三菱推脱责任，若是我的话我会先找个律师咨询一下，把情况沟通一下，然后问对方要不要接这个case ...

是吗，如果真的这样，我愿意，就这个问题，和三菱杠一杠。
当然最好是no win no fee 的那种。
另外三菱推脱责任，说的20公里内经常冲洗。我想知道他们有没有规定车门必须定期打开冲洗内部呢？

radonradon

sunpower03 发表于 2020-10-17 23:44
是吗，如果真的这样，我愿意，就这个问题，和三菱杠一杠。
当然最好是no win no fee 的那种。
另外三菱推 ...

找几个律师试试，一接触就拽的二五八万似的那种直接略过。律师也分领域，比如有的主攻打employment方面的，有的主打工伤方面的，另外律师也不个个都是见钱下菜碟，只要能说动他，一切皆有可能。