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楼主:bluecanthus

[地区选择] 清真寺扩建事件 已顺利解决 感谢大家的团结一致 [复制链接]

发表于 2013-11-11 16:06 |显示全部楼层
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卡落琳0000 发表于 2013-11-11 15:56
如果反对有效 清真寺会建在哪里

如果市議會反對,會給出具體理由,申請者可以看看那些條件不滿足,改變他們的計劃,再申請。也可以認為市議會決定錯誤,進行申訴,甚至與市議會打官司。

任何地方都有可能,有物業就可以申請建。另一個帖說auburn市長要在strathsfield那邊開發,strathfield議會不批。他威脅說會把物業改為清真寺。

據說那裡本來就有清真寺了,現在是申請擴建。

Auburn那個現在正在擴建。

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发表于 2013-11-11 16:13 |显示全部楼层
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歧视帽子不要随便给人戴. 如果这个建筑的建造样样都合乎规程, 对别人没有生活环境的影响, 然而人们还要反对它, 因为它是清真寺, 这才是歧视. 现在建筑本身超出规范, 又对周围环境有长远的影响, 这种反对能叫歧视吗?

实话就是, 如果它都符合开发规定, 对环境没有影响, 我不会去反对它. 如果不合规定, 影响了社区, 无论它是寺庙还是高楼还是工厂, 我都会去反对它, 这不叫歧视. 这是很简单的道理.

发表于 2013-11-11 16:17 |显示全部楼层
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不喜歡,所以堅決反對,我就住南區。

发表于 2013-11-11 16:28 |显示全部楼层
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有什么好吵的. 穆斯林兄弟有权利申请, 批不批准是council的事情. 华人同胞当然也有反对的权利, 听不听的进去也是council的事情.  

发表于 2013-11-11 16:49 |显示全部楼层
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中间人 发表于 2013-11-11 13:03
大家嘴上说不歧视,绞尽脑汁的想些理由就为了掩盖你们的真实想法:清真寺建好了吸引中东人,而中东人来了房 ...

有见地
头像被屏蔽

禁止发言

发表于 2013-11-11 16:49 |显示全部楼层
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beanxyz 发表于 2013-11-11 14:43
握爪,有机会晚上出来交流交流,你给议员打电话打通过吗,我打了几个都没人接,估计还是发邮件有效吧 ...


我觉得还是发邮件。因为打电话或者网上反对都没有EMAIL 或者POST 信件来的直接,因为EMAIL 每天每人都能看到。楼主的EMAIL 方法已经贴出来了,CC 到所有议员,这个效果是最好的。
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发表于 2013-11-11 16:51 |显示全部楼层
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抢地盘啊

发表于 2013-11-11 16:51 |显示全部楼层
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kpang 发表于 2013-11-11 14:44
人,可分高低贵贱嘛? 可以分三六九等?

人,居住的地区可以被你当作另外看待的理由嘛?

仔细想想别人说话的原意,不要轻易给人带‘种族歧视‘的帽子,当封人贴,说别人‘种族歧视‘时,要想想自己是不是也有‘歧视‘及‘不让人自由‘之嫌

你激动了,你说的与我的话毫不相干,我回复中说的话,只是那么多msl聚在的那种居民区的小地方,及1-2小时pray 一次会影响到周围居住的人,难道我说的不对吗?难道你敢保证没有任何影响?

发表于 2013-11-11 16:52 |显示全部楼层
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刚有鞋穿的人 发表于 2013-11-11 13:31
那是,eastwood不人多?那么多买菜的,不吵?照样哭着喊着要住么

太形象了

发表于 2013-11-11 16:57 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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sydfuzhou 发表于 2013-11-11 13:26
在提完意见后,COUNCIL会设一个开会时间投票。这个会很关键。每个人都可以去。我会去参加。在会上,会让 ...

听证会的经验之谈啊!支持你!

发表于 2013-11-11 16:58 |显示全部楼层
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盐商格格 发表于 2013-11-11 16:13
歧视帽子不要随便给人戴. 如果这个建筑的建造样样都合乎规程, 对别人没有生活环境的影响, 然而人们还要反对 ...

同意,’歧视‘不是尚方宝剑,不是谁拿着谁就代表正义,幼稚

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发表于 2013-11-11 16:59 |显示全部楼层
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aaas 发表于 2013-11-11 15:52
太形象了

LZ的意思是他讨厌种族歧视和中东人

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发表于 2013-11-11 17:08 |显示全部楼层
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我建议啊,如果清真寺还是要建的话,大家就申请建个全中文小学,再建个孔夫子庙,再建个菩萨庙,还有什么啊,反正就给他来一个百花齐放。

发表于 2013-11-11 17:12 |显示全部楼层
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卡落琳0000 发表于 2013-11-11 15:56
如果反对有效 清真寺会建在哪里

一个很好的哲学问题,。不建这儿,也会建在那儿

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卡落琳0000 + 3 感谢分享

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发表于 2013-11-11 17:14 |显示全部楼层
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eguan88 发表于 2013-11-11 15:59
LZ的意思是他讨厌种族歧视和中东人


哈哈哈。这不就是台湾吴宗宪最著名的那个经典段子吗?吴宗宪说:

我平生最恨两种人,一种是有种族歧视的人,还有一种就是黑人。

此有故彼有,此生故彼生,此無故彼無,此灭故彼灭。

发表于 2013-11-11 17:20 |显示全部楼层
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中间人 发表于 2013-11-11 13:03
大家嘴上说不歧视,绞尽脑汁的想些理由就为了掩盖你们的真实想法:清真寺建好了吸引中东人,而中东人来了房 ...

不要轻易给人带‘种族歧视‘的帽子,这不是尚方宝剑,不是你拿着你就代表正义,幼稚!

房价跌不是歧视的结果,况且房价就一定跌吗?别耍小聪明

扩大的建筑,30米高的塔等等,都会带来大量的人流及噪音,这是不折不扣地改变了周围居民的生活习惯,没有比change life style更大的变化了.

Penhurst是一个安静的地方,不想家门口有大量的人流及噪音,难道不能反对吗?难道反对就是歧视吗?难道发帖反对就要被封帖警告吗?

如果我的邻居要改建个房,我反对,试问还有谁说我歧视,又有谁又是封帖又是警告的?难道加个msl,就上纲上线了?这只能暴露有些人内心的小,且并不懂什么叫‘种族歧视。 一个歧视自己及自己种族 的人,不配和别人谈什么‘种族歧视‘!

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参与人数 1积分 +2 收起 理由
joed + 2 他典型扣帽子思维,扣一顶“歧视”的帽子,.

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发表于 2013-11-11 17:25 |显示全部楼层
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htan564 发表于 2013-11-11 16:28
有什么好吵的. 穆斯林兄弟有权利申请, 批不批准是council的事情. 华人同胞当然也有反对的权利, 听不听的进 ...

够中肯

发表于 2013-11-11 17:26 |显示全部楼层
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aaas 发表于 2013-11-11 17:12
一个很好的哲学问题,。不建这儿,也会建在那儿

这个说法不成立的。澳洲的法律系统是第一次被拒了,以后越来越容易拒,因为有先例。反之第一次批了,其它地方也越来越容易批。你们这个假设在澳洲是相反的。

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sydfuzhou + 2 我很赞同

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发表于 2013-11-11 17:37 |显示全部楼层
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该批的总会是批的,最后顶多是把格局改改,想根本赶走是不可能的,赶到别的地方照样盖。好办法就是在旁边开家按摩院,和穆斯林对着干。只是有点不明白,周围也不是阿拉的高密区,为啥去那里盖一个呀?不过有一点可以肯定,一旦盖完了,基本就是星星之火可以燎原啦,子子孙孙无穷尽也。

发表于 2013-11-11 19:41 |显示全部楼层
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在中国时没机会出声,到了这儿有机会了就一定要大声说出来。在居民区盖这么一个东西,又和周围格格不入,对当地居民没有任何好处,只有不便,为什么不能大声说出来?即使不要影响房价,我也要反对。鬼佬连要申请盖的房子不漂亮都可以是理由,自己觉得有不舒服的地方就是可以说出来。

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澳子 + 4 支持!

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发表于 2013-11-11 19:45 |显示全部楼层
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杰克 发表于 2013-11-11 16:20
不要轻易给人带‘种族歧视‘的帽子,这不是尚方宝剑,不是你拿着你就代表正义,幼稚!

房价跌不是歧视的 ...

说的真好
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发表于 2013-11-11 19:53 |显示全部楼层
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sydfuzhou 发表于 2013-11-11 19:41
在中国时没机会出声,到了这儿有机会了就一定要大声说出来。在居民区盖这么一个东西,又和周围格格不入,对 ...

偶很赞同。

发表于 2013-11-11 19:55 |显示全部楼层
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bluecanthus 发表于 2013-11-11 19:45
说的真好

好有什么用,还不是被删贴,禁言

不过,也让我知道了语言的力量,有人欢喜,有人害怕,不过无论欢喜还是害怕,压制任何一方都是一种歧视,不明白这个道理也就不明白歧视的真正含义

发表于 2013-11-11 19:56 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 Hector 于 2013-11-11 19:58 编辑

趁现在房价还高,
快逃吧

发表于 2013-11-11 20:13 |显示全部楼层
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杰克 发表于 2013-11-11 18:55
好有什么用,还不是被删贴,禁言

不过,也让我知道了语言的力量,有人欢喜,有人害怕,不过无论欢喜还是 ...

你原来哪个帖子

发表于 2013-11-11 20:28 |显示全部楼层
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bluecanthus 发表于 2013-11-11 20:13
你原来哪个帖子

就是本帖,67#
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发表于 2013-11-11 20:31 |显示全部楼层
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盐商格格 发表于 2013-11-11 10:01
班主, 我借帖问一下, 我那个帖子里也明确说了, 只说事件, 不谈宗教种族, 怎么也被删了, 心里想不明白. ...

我的也给删了,也没过激言论啊

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cissy03 + 2 你是唯恐天下不乱

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发表于 2013-11-11 20:39 |显示全部楼层
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LEOZHU 发表于 2013-11-11 11:42
这个还用作调查吗?中国人的心理就是这样的。我上面说过了,即使这个清真寺,一切都满足要求,反对的人也 ...

cannot agree more

发表于 2013-11-11 20:46 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 moonstar 于 2013-11-12 12:57 编辑

我终稿出来了. formatting 请忽略,copy and paste时会有些出错。 版主,咱写都是根据council的development plan 要求来的,不涉及政治,种族,blah blah.

我看那个DA申请细节的时候发现这份申请里申请人真的是睁着眼睛说瞎话的,真的需要我们自己站出来说自己的观点。





Dear Mayor and Councillors,

Re: Development Application (DA2013/0315) for alterations and additions to existing Mosque – Group and first floor additions including new domed roof s and new 30m high minaret at 445 Forest Rd, Penshurst

We are a group of residents within the Hurstville Council area concerned with the said Development Application (DA2013/0315) and hereby object to this Development Application.  In particular our concerns relate to the noise problem, traffic congestion, insufficient parking spaces, landscape change, loss of amenity and resultant detrimental impacts on the surrounding area and local residents.  We have launched an on-line petition (available at https://www.change.org/en-AU/pet ... rest-road-penshurst) and received over 350 online signatures over a four-day period.  

A.        Reasons for our objection
We outlined below the main concerns we have regarding the proposed Development Plan and reasons for our objection:

Impact on traffic and parking

The most concerning of all is the traffic congestion and parking problems this extended Mosque and its associated activities may bring about.

Even before the proposed extension, the Mosque and Imam residence (together the “Building”) already occupies the whole site and therefore car parking previously has not been provided on site. Now this Development Application proposed an addition of 189 square metres floor space and a second floor, a new 30-metre high minaret, and new domed roofs. This is a major change to size and appearance of the existing building and residence on site. Whilst the applicant claimed in the DA application that the extension won’t  increase patronage, we have serious reservation and doubt about this statement.  With this substantial increase in size, and the new features of 30 metre high minaret and domed roofs, we do believe this extended and significantly altered building will inevitably attract a much larger group of prayers, and this site could become a site for major events and holidays. Due to the fact that the proposed development plan fails to meet the traffic and parking space requirements as prescribed under the Hurstville Council’s Development Control Plan, we are concerned that the applicant might have understated the number of potential visitors, expected traffic, and volume and frequency of visits, with a view to obtaining development approval in spite of the proposed plan’s non-compliance with the Council’s Development Control Plan. As the current building  has already failed to provide any onsite parking space, this major extension and change to the building, and the additional crowd it attracts into the Council could exacerbate the shortage of parking spaces in connection with the operation of this Mosque.

We noticed in the DA application document that it was mentioned parking spaces in the nearby shopping centre and near the council would be part of the solution of the parking problem. With the long distance between these offsite parkings and the building concerned, we feel this is an unfounded argument, but a sign that the proposed building extension fails to provide any solution to its lack of onsite parking space, and have to propose some impractical solution to the problem.
It is also worth noting Forest Rd is one of the main and busiest roads in this Council. Traffic and parking in the neighbourhood area is already under strain. Several major residential buildings under construction around this area are expected to increase traffic and the need for additional parking spaces around this area. The extension of this building will push traffic and parking in the area beyond its limits, causing severe issues for local residents and all through traffic.
Last but not the least, the frequency of visits for daily prays (up to five times a day), and the number of major holidays and events throughout the year could make these traffic and parking issues a persistent and repeated problem for the neighbourhood and local residents.

Noise problem

As mentioned above, we do believe the extended and changed Building will bring in a much larger number of visitors regularly on a daily basis. This includes concerns about noise from the constant daily use of the Building. In particular there are concerns about that prays up to five times a day and the much larger group of prayers coming into the neighbourhood following this Building extension. We are also concerned that loud speaker would be placed on top of the 30-m high minaret and cause additional noise issues.  

Loss of amenity and impact on nearby community facility and services


Due to noise, traffic and parking issues from the frequent visits by prayers, as outlined above, this could also significantly affect the accessibility and services of the next-door Pole Depot Neighbourhood Centre, which is an important community facility providing a diverse range of social support services to over 500 people living in the St George region and surrounding areas each week.  There are also a few schools, childcares, before school and after school care centres nearby. A large number of parents and children may need to regularly travel through this area, and use the parking spaces and other community facility available nearby.  

We expect the regular visits by a much larger number of visitors, especially during holidays and major events, would pose traffic control, parking management and safety problems to these community facility and schools, and would require extra resources and efforts on managing these traffic, parking and safety issues.  This would put further strain on the already stretched public services within the Council.   

Impact on the environment


This Building, particularly with its size, height, domed roofs and the 30-metre minaret, won’t be consistent with the landscape in the surrounding area, and will affect the living environment of the neighbourhood.  In fact it could be visually overbearing to people in this neighbourhood.

Over development and loss of privacy

Even before the extension, the space of the Building already doesn’t allow it to provide onsite parking.  The extension would further reduce the open space available at this side. With the expansion of floor space, an additional floor, and a 30-m high Minaret as proposed in the DA application and the large number of visitors coming in and out of this building on a daily basis, the extended Building will result in significant loss of privacy, daylight and sunlight to neighbouring properties.


B. Request for rejection of this Development Plan


If as claimed in the Development Plan that this extended Building was not supposed to serve additional patronage, the current Building has been serving the existing prayers for a fair period of time and we don’t see why such a major extension and change to appearance would be required to maintain its services.  We do believe this major extension and change to its appearance would attract many more people into the area and cause various issues to the neighbourhood and local residents.

Considering the various issues and material detrimental impacts this proposed Development Plan may have on the neighbourhood and local residents, as local residents, we together urge the Council to reject this development plan.

C. Request for extension of consultation period, public consultation and public hearing

In conjunction with this objection, we also urge the Council to extend the period for the public to submit objection or other opinion, provide more information to the broader community for their input, and hold a public hearing with regard to this Development Application.

We believe this is a development of significant interest to the community in Hurstville Council. We, however, understand that the Council has only notified a very small group of residents of this Development Application, and failed to engage and consult with the broader community in Hurstville.  We only became aware of this Development Application a few days ago through conversation with some other residents in this area. Given the public interest involved and the various detrimental impacts this Development Plan may have on the community (as outlined above), we urge the Council to extend the period and coverage of consultation, and hold a public hearing on this matter.
                                    *           *         *        *
We, being local residents in this Council, expect the Council and the Councillors to take into consideration the opinion and concerns of local residents, and consider this Development Application accordingly.

Yours sincerely,
Over 370 concerned residents in Hurstville Council

Encl:
List of over 370 online signatures

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发表于 2013-11-11 20:58 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 wcsydney2000 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 wcsydney2000 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
在council 网站投反对票,

http://www.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/Submission-on-DA.html

然后填下面的,
https://www.change.org/en-AU/pet ... rest-road-penshurst

只差146名了,赶快啊,家里有老人一起住的,应该都可以的填的。


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