黑心老板，不信我扳不倒你（Fair Work真是吃白饭的）

12oz

原帖由 老驴 于 2011-2-27 22:37 发表
我准备的回复:

首先,我得告诉他,不是我而是他自己使事态升级.

第二,我不可能答应他.我和他达成协议是基于we would be happy with each other in the future的基础,他的态度和行为已经使得这一切变得不可能了.因此, ...

不错，继续关注，也请LZ继续update同时给别人也有个借鉴

sexmonk

精神上支持楼主

老驴

2011.03.04，FW打电话来了,居然还说找不到相应的Award标准

今天FW的另一工作人员打电话给我,说你不是准备接受你和前老板的协议.我说那是不公平的协议,我不能接受.

他说问题是现在找不到software developer应该适用哪个行业的award,虽然在http://paycheck.fwo.gov.au/PayCheckForm.aspx上找到一个Telecommunications Services Award 2010    MA000041,但是那只适用于电信行业,比如Telstra之类.你做的taxi项目,像是security行业,但是这个行业没有software developer类别.我说他们还搞gaming,sports呢,那到底属于哪个行业?

他说,而且你们都没有日常工作时长的记录,我还要调查才能决定.我说老板在邮件里抱怨我每周只干3天,就按每周3天,每天7.5小时计算,虽然我的工作时间按远远超过这个.不至于没有一个工资标准吧.

他说,那就只能适用澳洲最低工资标准,$15/小时.算一下,你可以得到$8k多,还是税前.而且你是employee还是contractor我们也搞不清楚,还要等我们调查,说不定又要1,2个月.你是不是考虑一下要不要接受那个协议.我说我考虑后再给你打电话,约好下周二打电话给他.


看来FW这帮家伙也不能仰仗,怎么看起来像是那老板一伙的,怎么就没有一个工资标准捏?钱多少倒是次要的,关键是怎么就能让这小子逍遥法外了.

搞IT编程的,除了modern award的,还有什么award标准?我现在的工作也是属于这类.

但是,就算是modern award,按FW的说法,也找不到其他的有software developer类别的行业啊.

我找到一个Information Technology Industry (Professional Employees) Award 2001,这个行不?
http://www.fwa.gov.au/index.cfm? ... splaytype=FullAward

[ 本帖最后由 老驴 于 2011-3-5 23:02 编辑 ]

martin_ym

问题的关键是FW没有确定相应的Award标准，那末你就坚持+坚持+坚持下面的标准

Telecommunications Services Award 2010    MA000041

他们换人纠结Telecommunications关键词，也是这个officer 否认上个替你找到答案的officer所致。

所以只要你坚持这个Award标准，提醒他 software developer 同 accountant一样，服务于任何行业，其中包括Telecommunications
否则就请他们反证你的标准。
没有反证，他们又拿不出具体的title.你就坚持已有的标准，促使case顺利进行。

[ 本帖最后由 martin_ym 于 2011-3-4 21:53 编辑 ]

GK1999

原帖由 martin_ym 于 2011-3-4 21:50 发表
问题的关键是FW没有确定相应的Award标准，那末你就坚持+坚持+坚持下面的标准

Telecommunications Services Award 2010    MA000041

他们换人纠结Telecommunications关键词，也是这个officer 否认上个替你找到答案的off ...

嗯，好主意。

feier97

还有这种老板，我看给9刀/小时的老板已经够黑的了。

老驴

原帖由 martin_ym 于 2011-3-4 21:50 发表
问题的关键是FW没有确定相应的Award标准，那末你就坚持+坚持+坚持下面的标准

Telecommunications Services Award 2010    MA000041

他们换人纠结Telecommunications关键词，也是这个officer 否认上个替你找到答案的off ...

谢谢!

Poweregg

原帖由 老驴 于 4/3/2011 19:35 发表
2000.03.04，FW打电话来了,居然还说找不到相应的Award标准

今天FW的另一工作人员打电话给我,说你不是准备接受你和前老板的协议.我说那是不公平的协议,我不能接受.

他说问题是现在找不到software developer应该适用哪 ...

安慰，FT很多人很shit，就会抹稀泥
然后case了了，多催催他们，那群拿了我们的税光抹稀泥的混球

ladygagaga

楼主表怕，老板一般是色厉内荏，想当初我前boss不也是气势汹汹最后没电了嘛，还写了亲笔信附上支票祝福我Happy呢
Fw是会尽量帮助员工的----在不费他们的脑细胞前提下，肯定是比天朝的有关部门强的。关于award model 楼主也可以问问 indursty relationship

老驴

更新在顶楼

doubleseven

这都什么事啊，按理说FW作为一个第三方，应该是很积极参与的啊

XIE

There web developer wage : depending on if you have degree or not. With degree, $21 or 24 per hour, casual rates: 123 % ie $29.76 plus super.  this is first year wage. If you do not have degree, arount $20 and casual loading is 123%.then, plus super. Keep all your time card. 然后倒着算你的钱。go to fair work web, there is web or programmer designer minimum wage. Fair work DO know the minimum wage. At least in Qld in April and May 2011. NSW and Vic should have better Fair work system than Qld.
Ask them and pest them until they found out the wage. That's why they are been paid for. that's their job! Help them to get the job done.
It is your boss owning your wage, not you. Fair work employee could get paid because you have case and becuase you need help. otherwise they would all be fired. It's your rights to request them to help you out. Those Fair work should not sit there and scratch their asses and do nothing.

bingzang

太骗人了....

ivorsyd

原帖由 老驴 于 2011-3-4 19:35 发表
2011.03.04，FW打电话来了,居然还说找不到相应的Award标准

今天FW的另一工作人员打电话给我,说你不是准备接受你和前老板的协议.我说那是不公平的协议,我不能接受.

他说问题是现在找不到software developer应该适用哪 ...

modern award确实很多行业不包括，FW除非找到100%match
不然最大机会就是按最低工资15的，这个我打电话问过。。。。。
good luck楼主

小肉兔

小肉兔

我的经验分享下吧，有类似的经历，也是找到下一份工作后，原雇主就找了个借口，最后两个星期的工资就不给我了；可是我走的时候他还非常礼貌，谢谢我的帮助（因为我在的时候帮他做了不少事情）但是他没有走的时候给我钱，说要我花一两天培训新人，培训完再把钱给我。我觉得这样也好，因为之前关系都挺好的，所以就答应了。谁想后来他没有招到新人（想是因为他给的工资太低），我再去催，他就不给我钱了，说我突然跳槽“给公司造成极大的损失” 因为走的时候只给了一星期notice。。。其实我们之间从来没有任何written contract规定走的时候要多早notice。。。

这家公司是我当初刚毕业找的工作，华人的移民中介，工资吓人的低，移民更是骗人多多，我做了不到三个月走了。他非常过分的，从来没有给我报税，也没有帮我交super；他做移民代理，也是没有牌照（这个是criminal offence），给我的工资自然也是低于最低标准，我也从来没有take过任何holiday；遇上national holiday我是不上班的，但是那一天的钱也拿不到，所以我当初还挺讨厌遇上holiday的。。。这些他偷税啦，违规做代理的事情我到现在都没有去举报，就是不想一下子把人打死，我还是心肠软软的人，也许是太心软了。。。。。。当初我去找他拿钱，他不给我，还威胁说要派警察来抓我。。。

在去年六月我去向fairwork投诉，经过近一年的investigate，也就是发信/打电话要求雇主配合取证，他采取“完全不理会"的政策，所以当fairwork最后的结论出来，要他赔偿我的工资/holiday，他还是不理会，过了due day也没有任何反应。最后fairwork的建议是，让我付79澳元（好像是这个数字）让我把他告上small claim court。我最近挺忙的，所以还没有做，不过想过两个月闲下来，应该会这么做的。

主要也是一口气下不去。他本来给的工资就低，但是要是他愿意按照约定给工资，我就不会这样，但是主要是这个人心太坏，所以让我很生气。

我想告诉楼主的是，fairwork并不是一个legal enforcement organization ，并没有执法权，所以即使他们得出结论你是对的，对方如果不理会，也没有办法，所以要向我一样，take him to the court 才是有力的办法（希望是，我自己都还没有尝试）。我虽然和原雇主没有任何written contract说明我们的雇佣关系，但是我有同事可以替我证明，而且也有工资凭证（他每两周给我一次pay check）所以我们是de fecto employment relationship，所以这样也可以的。LZ加油，这样过分的老板就是要让他得到教训。至于fairwork是吃软饭的，I cant agree with you any more！（因为他们效率又慢，你一定要去跟人家follow up才有动静，但是也不怪人家，人家不收钱的嘛；关键他们又没有执法权力，所以最后还是要上法庭。。。）

这件事情这么久了，我本来都很懒的追究了，看了楼主这篇文章后重新想起来。我想我们就是应该怎样都坚持到底，就是要给黑心的老板一个教训！LZ 加油。。。

老驴

谢谢支持！

老驴

谢谢支持！

大成若缺

这样的BOSS就该被毙了

jerryclark

Full Time的Software Developer应该适用Professional Employees Award 2010。参见Section 3.3

3.3
Information technology and telecommunications services stream
information technology industry means:
(a)
the design and manufacture of computers and computer peripherals;
(b)
the design and manufacture of telecommunications equipment;
(c)
the design and manufacture of computer software;
(d)
computer system installation, repair and maintenance;
(e)
computer consultancy services;
(f)
computer programming;
(g)
system analysis services;
(h)
the design, development and maintenance of on-line internet architecture and the facilitation of on-line content management; or
(i)
activities which are incidental, ancillary or complementary to the activities set out in this definition.
Experienced information technology employee means a professional information technology employee with the undermentioned qualifications in any particular employment the adequate discharge of any portion of the duties of which employment requires:
(a)
that they have graduated with a University degree, with a science or information technology major (three, four or five year course) and had four years’ experience on professional information technology duties since graduating; or
(b)
that they, not having so graduated, have sufficient qualifications and experience to be eligible for admission as a member of the Australian Computer Society plus a further four years’ experience on professional information technology duties.
Graduate information technology employee means a person who:
(a)
holds a university degree with a science or information technology major (three, four or five year course) accredited by the Australian Computer Society at professional level; or
(b)
has sufficient qualifications and experience to be eligible for admission as a member of the Australian Computer Society.
Professional information technology employee means an adult person qualified to carry out professional information technology duties as above defined. The term Professional information technology employee will embrace and include Graduate
information technology employee and Experienced information technology employee as defined.
professional information technology duties means duties carried out by a person in any particular employment the adequate discharge of any portion of which duties requires a person to:
(a)
hold a university degree with a science or information technology major (three, four or five year course) accredited by the Australian Computer Society at professional level; or
(b)
have sufficient qualifications and experience to be eligible for admission as a member of the Australian Computer Society.
telecommunications service means a service for carrying communications by means of guided or unguided electromagnetic energy or both
telecommunications services industry means:
(a)
the supply and/or installation and/or maintenance of telecommunications services; or
(b)
the supply and/or installation and/or maintenance of value added telecommunications services; or
(c)
incidental, ancillary or complementary to the supply and/or installation and/or maintenance of telecommunications services; or
(d)
the installation and/or maintenance of telecommunications equipment and line.

donnafan72

支持一下

jerryclark

链接找来了

http://www.fwa.gov.au/index.cfm? ... splaytype=fullAward

米老鼠

支持！！

老驴

原帖由 jerryclark 于 2011-6-19 18:00 发表
链接找来了

http://www.fwa.gov.au/index.cfm? ... splaytype=fullAward

雪中送炭，真是太感谢了！我还真没找到这个。

jerryclark

我查了section 11，适用于full time, part time 和 casual

11. Types of employment

11.1 Contract of employment

Employment may be full-time, part-time or casual.

11.2 Full-time employment

Any person not specifically engaged as being a part-time or casual employee is for all purposes of this award a full-time employee unless otherwise specified.

11.3 Part-time employment

(a) An employee may be engaged for a specified number of ordinary hours each week being less than those hours prescribed in clause 18—Ordinary hours of work and rostering.

(b) Such an employee will be paid pro rata the appropriate annual rate for the classification prescribed in clause 15—Minimum wages and will receive other conditions under this award at the same pro rata rate.

(c) Any employee engaged on a full-time basis will not be converted to a part-time basis as set out in this clause without the employee’s written agreement.

11.4 Casual employment

(a) An employee may be engaged as a casual and must be paid an hourly rate calculated by converting the appropriate annual rate for the classification prescribed in clause 15 to an hourly rate and adding a loading of 25%.

(b) Such loading is paid to compensate such casual employees for lack of continuity in employment, paid leave, termination and other employment benefits of a full-time or part-time employee.

jerryclark

原帖由 老驴 于 2011-6-19 18:04 发表

雪中送炭，真是太感谢了！我还真没找到这个。

可能我运气比较好，上次碰到一个懂行的Fairwork的Staff告诉我的。

老驴

谢谢热心的jerryclark！！！！！

vivien2009

楼主加油啊，

shuan322

同情楼主遭遇，自己也有类似的官司在打。

我前老板更过分，好几个月不发工资，他老婆花近3万买beetles还跟我们讲是贷款买的.....立刻就心凉了。

pinkdreamer

哈哈，这些破手段啊，怎么这么不新鲜，所有的黑心老板都是一个师傅教出来的吗？
1。 千万千万别给你的ABN啊，你有没有ABN无关的。没合同他凭什么说你是Contractor。
2。事情已经走到这步了，何必和他私了。如果按照Award你可以拿10k，他offer你12K立即付，你还可以考虑答应。比Award还少就坚决不答应。
3。 薪水拿到手，跟他要supper和替你交税的证明。