CA和CPA考试科目和选择讨论

andrewlizz

CA总部确是在悉尼。
个人认为CA的学习要求及考试评分制度相对来说更能确保candidate的职业素养。
如果只是想在澳洲呆着的话，CA或CPA完全是个人选择（例如想更多休闲时间等）。
CA的考试确是只有四题，但没考之前，每个人的critical file应该都会包括所有要点及重点了吧。要准备critical file这一点是CA考试给考生们的一个资产。

原帖由 911110000 于 2012-7-21 20:20 发表
cpa 的fail rate 是不算 not sit 的，你考过CPA 应该知道吧。而且fail rate控制在30%左右 是硬性要求，和多少人参加考试 没太大关系吧

CA 第四章 考试的时候没有书上出的那么难吧，ACA 那部分和CPA要求差不多吧，只要求掌握 ...

mymcse

两个证书的学员 素质都不一样，如何比较，
打个简单比方
考cpa需要 雅思6分水平就可以了。
但是考ca 雅思水平至少要7分。听说读写都要硬啊。。

911110000

mymcse 发表于 2012-9-19 12:44
两个证书的学员 素质都不一样，如何比较，
打个简单比方
考cpa需要 雅思6分水平就可以了。

doesn't make any sense

some authors of CPA textbook (e.g CPA TAX) are  CA

911110000

mymcse 发表于 2012-9-19 12:44
两个证书的学员 素质都不一样，如何比较，
打个简单比方
考cpa需要 雅思6分水平就可以了。

考的是 会计，和考生的英文水平 有多大关系？ 鬼佬挂的肯定比中国人多吧，鬼佬英文不如中国人？

我公司一个鬼佬基本所有的CPA考试都考了2遍才过，一个印度人，除了ethic，其他貌似也是2遍过。能找到这样的中国人 不是太多吧。

说阅读，CA的阅读量没有CPA大。 TAX， CPA 基本1000页。CA CLP500-600页 （CA CPA的参考教材是一样的， CHP 还是啥出版社的那个MASTER GUIDE之类的） 而且重要的是，CA CLP的行距和字体都比CPA的要大。 CA MAA 不到500页总共（含答案，除去copyright 那页），CPA 远不止。

CA 的好处是教材比较精炼，容易follow，加上平时的project，逼的人一直都需要学CA。（2013年 focus session可以自选为online class了）CPA写的东一块西一块，容易lost。 CPA教材一年比一年厚，CA 却不断删减 内容（MAA的 SWOT，porter 5 全都删了） 同一个问题CPA写的比CA要细很多（不过有的东西真没必要写那么细）

就一个考试，没必要提升到考生素质上吧。CPA 入门容易点，确实什么样的都有，CA 门槛稍稍高点，但未必素质就高呀。

3IX37

shubaobao 发表于 2012-7-21 20:06
哎。每次谈到这个话题好像总是很有争议。
其实呢。我老板说了～ca还是cpa跟你是不是一个好的accountant真的 ...

I absolutely agree that both CPA and CA are highly regarded profession institutions. It is very hard to discuss which one is better, and where there is no obvious comparable.

I guess, at the end of day it really depends each individual practitioner and we all can find some bad apples in both groups.

In order to make a reasonable comparison, not for proving which one is better, but to understand the difference, I did some quick researches listed below.

History:
CPA was originally incorporated in 1952 as Australia Society of Accountants
CA was constituted by Royal Charter in 1928

Affiliate:
CPA:
    Society of Management Accountants of Canada (CMA Canada)
    Certified General Accountants Association of Canada (CGA-Canada)
    Hong Kong Institute of Certified Public Accountants (HKICPA)
    Malaysian Institute of Accountants (MIA)
    Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Singapore (ICPAS)
    Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA)
    Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA)
    The Institute of Certified Public Accountants in Ireland (CPA Ireland)
    Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI)

CA:
    American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA)
    Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA)
    Hong Kong Institute of Certified Public Accountants (HKICPA)
    Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales (ICAEW)
    Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland (ICAI)
    Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS)
    Institute of Public Auditors in Germany, Incorporated Association(IDW)
    Japan Institute of Certified Public Accountants (JICPA)
    New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA)
    South African Institute of Chartered Accountants (SAICA)
    The Malaysian Institute of Certified Public Accountants (MICPA)

Rumor:
Despite there was some discussions about merging both membership, no solid plan has been implemented. (Wikipedia)
I heard it was CA rejected CPA proposal.

Furthermore there was a rumor that the reason CPA is so popular is because US has CPA (AIC-CPA), which is ICAA's affiliate. A lot of people mistakes that CPA Australia is related to US AICPA.

Population:
Previously CA candidates needed to have one year CA working experience before they can enroll CA course, while CPA program never needs working experience to start its course. After many years , people start to see the population of CPA is vastly overgrowing CA's. CA then reacted by omitting its work experience requirement a long some other minor changes.  

Study approach:
Exam:
CPA majority multiple-choice, each choice contains average 5 points, which ensure absolute understanding being achieved. (we cant deny that guess-luck like a sword, which can cut either way)  

CA heavily rely on essay, focus on reasoning and how issues are approached.

Study:
CPA relies on each candidates themselves, very limited guidance is provided, (at lease at my day). Basically if you read the study package and did the quiz, your pass is nearly guaranteed.  

CA requires candidates to attend focus session (at lease used to, if it hasn't changed), encourages group debate, discuss and presentation, demands a lot of extensive reading and researching outside of your learning packages, and emphasizes on how issue should be approached and on questioning, knowing and action.


After all, there are both goods and bads in either institution. I guess it really depends on each individual's preference.



Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPA_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Chartered_Accountants_in_Australia

3IX37

3IX37 发表于 2012-9-19 22:11
I absolutely agree that both CPA and CA are highly regarded profession institutions. It is very ha ...

There have been some significant changes in CA.

In older days, if a candidate failed any single module, he or she had to start the whole program all over again. Imagine that one passed all modules, but failed the last EBA, he or she had to start from the square 1 again.

Without noticing it, the whole professional developing became a popularity contest. With the outburst of CPA population, CA had to changed its program format to suit the market.  After all, how many elites does the market need?

911110000

3IX37 发表于 2012-9-20 08:03
There have been some significant changes in CA.

In older days, if a candidate failed any single  ...

Thanks for your sharing

CPA also changed a lot in 2010, remove some "easy" units from CPA program.

mymcse

911110000 发表于 2012-9-19 19:52
考的是 会计，和考生的英文水平 有多大关系？ 鬼佬挂的肯定比中国人多吧，鬼佬英文不如中国人？

我公司 ...

不要激动么，你自己去看看考场学生整体素质和国际上的认可度， 不要专挑个别例子 毫无无意义。
CA 还就是老外很强，而且大多都是澳洲top 公司，别以为老外就比中国或者印度人蠢，人家精英比你强多了。

911110000

mymcse 发表于 2012-9-20 18:19
不要激动么，你自己去看看考场学生整体素质和国际上的认可度， 不要专挑个别例子 毫无无意义。
CA 还就是 ...

鬼佬那个例子是说CA CPA 和英文关系不大


CA 最大的劣势就是人数太少，近年不断改革 估计也是要多招人，face2face FS 已经不是必须的了，门槛也再降低。就澳洲来讲，CA 不可能一家独大，看看你CA AAA的教材U1，APES 这类的standard 都需要和CPA合作

CPA 不断改革是改革课程，目前已经缩减到8门课了，课本比较厚，CA cover的内容，CPA也都cover。也找CA当author，也是想提高自己的课本水准

澳洲是少有的既有CA 又有CPA的国家，对于只有CPA的国家（比如中国），估计CPAA 听说的人更多，跟非会计的人说ICAA 估计一头雾水。

就澳洲来说，估计还是CA吃香，seek上 基本认CPA的都认CA，极少数雇主只认CA。还没见过JOB ADS只认CPA的

911110000

mymcse 发表于 2012-9-20 18:19
不要激动么，你自己去看看考场学生整体素质和国际上的认可度， 不要专挑个别例子 毫无无意义。
CA 还就是 ...

并不认同 CA就老外强，FS上一堆四大的，回答问题该错还是错，真不如亚裔正确率高

dongdou

911110000 发表于 2012-9-20 20:15
并不认同 CA就老外强，FS上一堆四大的，回答问题该错还是错，真不如亚裔正确率高 ...

问题回答的正不正确,真的不怎么重要,FS是个畅所欲言大家参与的地方,实在不需要纠结对错. 有些人给出的答案是错的,但是咱们可以学习他们发言的技巧和能力. 工作中这个恐怕更重要.

FS上到现在我最佩服local们在书也没看题也没做的情况下跟同桌人快速讨论以后出色地做出一个presentation的能力. 在表达,组织材料和即兴发言方面他们确实很不错. 相反第二语言背景的同学发言总给人感觉有胆怯,放不开,这样的状态在公司开会或者跟客户开会是很难让别人聆听信服的.

slau1

我學CA我自豪

3IX37

911110000 发表于 2012-9-20 20:12
鬼佬那个例子是说CA CPA 和英文关系不大

Absolutely agree. and the people heard of CPA is not because Australian CPA is better, but because US accountants are called CPA ( you know the influence from the Wall street), and ironically enough, the US CPA is an associate/affiliate of ICAA in Au. (they are sisters and brothers) and they are no relation to CPA Australia.

3IX37

dongdou 发表于 2012-9-20 21:20
问题回答的正不正确,真的不怎么重要,FS是个畅所欲言大家参与的地方,实在不需要纠结对错. 有些人给出的答 ...

You are right, the difference is how to approach an issue and solve it, is what focused in CA. That is why it is called as Focus Session. :)

3IX37

slau1 发表于 2012-9-20 21:30
我學CA我自豪

Be proud, and so should others. Trust me, it is not easy to live under the shadow of others all the time and being undermined.

3IX37

Recently someone posted a similar query on gradconnection, asking whether CPA Australia is recognised in US as he is looking for an opportunity to work there. It appears that CPA Australia is no longer recognised in US. the follow paragraphs are the research performed by ALex in Gradconnection:

"The Mutual Recognition Agreement between the U.S. International Qualifications Appraisal Board and CPA Australia has expired effective December 5, 2010 and is not being considered for renewal. Members of CPA Australia interested in becoming licensed as a CPA in the U.S. must complete the Uniform CPA Examination."

However the link supplied http://www.nasba.org/nasbaweb/NASBAWeb.nsf/wpeicp?openform&countryabbrev=cpaAus appears to have been taken down.

Based on http://www.nasba.org/international/mra/ which I accessed today, 20/9/11:

What is a Mutual Recognition Agreement?

The NASBA/AICPA International Qualifications Appraisal Board (IQAB) is the link between the U.S. accounting profession and that of other General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) signatory countries. Through a mutual recognition agreement (MRA),  qualified professional accountants from another country can practice in the United States without having to completely re-credential. Similar recognition is given to U.S. CPAs who wish to practice in that same country.

Current Agreements

IQAB has currently established MRAs with the following professional bodies:

Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia

Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants

Canada, Mexico, and United States Memorandum of Understanding

Chartered Accountants Ireland

Irish Institute of Chartered Accountants

Instituto Mexican de Contadores Publicos

New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants

......

reference:
http://www.gradconnection.com.au/forums/thread/accounting-industry/cpa-australia-recognised-by-american-cpa/?page=last

dongdou

3IX37 发表于 2012-9-21 08:35
You are right, the difference is how to approach an issue and solve it, is what focused in CA. Tha ...

给我的感觉您在Institute工作? 还是有做Focus Session leader?

3IX37

dongdou 发表于 2012-9-24 21:25
给我的感觉您在Institute工作? 还是有做Focus Session leader?

I m just being professional. :)

紫衣

在什么阶段需要什么资质，真是各取所需。

lee2267

目前firm里 流行的做法：考完cpa 。考 super 的 certificate。。然后考 ca 。1年1们。。
这么做是为了 以最省钱的的方法 有效的 累积  cpd hrs。。。1们cpa/ca的课程 过了就 80 hrs啊 。。。
去参加 什么课程一天就要600-800了。。

banbancooll

目前看来CA的要求是比CPA严格一些，但两者的差距已经在缩减了，任何一种考试都是越来越难了。

banbancooll

mymcse 发表于 2012-9-19 12:44
两个证书的学员 素质都不一样，如何比较，
打个简单比方
考cpa需要 雅思6分水平就可以了。

完全在误导。考CA\CPA 的entry要求除了一个要有mentor，一个没有mentor以外还有什么区别。大家都是正规澳洲认可的大学毕业的，课上所学内容也都是机构credit的。有什么素质区别。按照这个说法，国内cicpa的电大的，函授的，自考的毕业生也可以考，也不需要工作经验。那这证书考出来的不是更Shit的，事实是这样么？

rosesong

我的manager是CA，他已经不止一次的提醒我千万不要考CPA，搞得我郁闷。

zfzf77556688

讨论了半天，还是没介绍清楚到底职业上的发展上，CA和CPA的区别哟。请有经验的人能否回答一下以下简单问题

1. 你是CA还是CPA(包括在读）?
a. CA     b. CPA

2. 如果在澳洲小公司发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

3. 如果在澳洲中型公司发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

4. 如果在澳洲大公司发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

5. 如果在澳洲本地上市公司发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

6. 如果在澳洲的跨国公司比如500强发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

7. 如果在澳洲小firm发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

8. 如果在澳洲大firm (比如big 4)发展，
a. CA稍微好一点  b. 差不多   c. CA好很多

9. 你的答案是更多的根据感觉还是根据事例，
a. 感觉  b. 事例   

多谢大家，希望你们的回答能给这个discussion 一个最准确的终极答案。
为了方便，答案可以象这样： bcb caa cba,共九题：）


（本人新移民，正在考虑选哪一个，困惑中。。。）

3IX37

zfzf77556688 发表于 2012-10-4 18:17
讨论了半天，还是没介绍清楚到底职业上的发展上，CA和CPA的区别哟。请有经验的人能否回答一下以下简单问题
...

Based on the way how you approach things, you will be fine either way.

rookie

弱弱地问一下大家～报考CPA需要考雅思4个7吗？

vincecheng

考CA。最近一次去面試見合伙人。人家見了我有CPA不考，轉去考CA，很高興。爭取了不少分數。 CA 和CPA在中介眼裏一個樣，但是懂行的人就知道他們的不同之處。

flyingf4u

我是CA，但是我要说，如果不去FIRM发展，CPA够了。不建议读CA。
但是如果你想去英国加拿大等国作会计，好像只认CA吧.

wellye

zfzf77556688 发表于 2012-10-4 19:17
讨论了半天，还是没介绍清楚到底职业上的发展上，CA和CPA的区别哟。请有经验的人能否回答一下以下简单问题
...

除了第8个问题是CA外，其他都是差不多，我没混过firm， 小公司大公司都混过，除非你做高层否则CPA足够了，但我们公司的做到fin mngr以上的都是CA。
firm跳过来的同事都说除非不想在firm混，否则还是考CA吧，我指的都是big 4的。有个很奇怪的现象，我们公司众多会计中，有一直在industry混得有big 4空降的，但没有一个小firm跳过来的，这是为什么？

Yingking

wanghui1015 发表于 2012-7-21 21:00
CA和CPA的TAX我都考过，CA花CPA双倍的时间。学CPA只周末看书做题，学CA天天都在看。
CPA的教材讲的比较细 ...

考过的人自己知道。
拿着cpa书翻翻，只能说自己倒霉干嘛考ca。最后一章有几页我反复刊了十遍。还是大概明白。我读研average82，非创业大学。
比较一下难度吧。
最后tax差四分没拿merit。555。。fin mgt 拿了merit。现在攻克audit中。明天考了。