打了3趟电话给ATO，都没弄清楚的GST问题！ 3个人3种答案，请教各位税务高手指教！

乘物以游心

原帖由 出来气人 于 2012-7-13 16:34 发表

肯定的回答：
１。如果是你们公司负责清关，那你的报价必须加上GST，因为你们公司是在做importer
２。如果你们公司不负责清关，你的客户自己清关，你只是提供一部分清关资料（COMMERCIAL INVOICE  ETC），那叫：EX WHARF，严格意义上说词批 ...

这个回答看起来很合理，能找到确实的条文证据吗？

乘物以游心

今天的分分早早的用完了，回头回血了马上来加分，回帖就有分哦！！

(paopaobing(32))

大球球

不用的，肯定是2。放心吧，我公司一个客户这么做很多年了。

lee2267

原帖由 出来气人 于 2012-7-13 16:34 发表

肯定的回答：
１。如果是你们公司负责清关，那你的报价必须加上GST，因为你们公司是在做importer
２。如果你们公司不负责清关，你的客户自己清关，你只是提供一部分清关资料（COMMERCIAL INVOICE  ETC），那叫：EX WHARF，严格意义上说词批 ...

Correct ...

lesli1109

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2012-7-13 16:08 发表


仔细看了一下GST ACT 1999的9-25。

总起是在 9-5：

9‑5  Taxable supplies
You make a taxable supply if:
                     (a)  you make the supply for *consideration; and
                     (b)  t ...

Definition of 'Export', refer to GSTR2002/6 (just search this number on ATO's website). This ruling is all about 'GST: exports of goods'.

Could't type Chinese in office.

Personnally I agree with 2.

[ 本帖最后由 lesli1109 于 2012-7-13 17:11 编辑 ]

a_bomb150

我估计楼主不会单出佣金发票，因为这样一来就要让自己的买家接触到supplier出具的文件了。

原帖由 出来气人 于 2012-7-13 16:34 发表

肯定的回答：
１。如果是你们公司负责清关，那你的报价必须加上GST，因为你们公司是在做importer
２。如果你们公司不负责清关，你的客户自己清关，你只是提供一部分清关资料（COMMERCIAL INVOICE  ETC），那叫：EX WHARF，严格意义上说词批 ...

大球球

看看这张东西，多少年了我这个客户ABC公司都是这样的，从来没有加GST给XYZ公司。
这个客户的生意里面 XYZ公司自己清关，和搂主的情况一样。

货物本身从美国，新加坡近来

[ 本帖最后由 大球球 于 2012-7-13 17:25 编辑 ]

乘物以游心

原帖由 a_bomb150 于 2012-7-13 17:12 发表
我估计楼主不会单出佣金发票，因为这样一来就要让自己的买家接触到supplier出具的文件了。

不出佣金发票的，直接走正常买卖流程。 Supplier的信息对于客户是完全透明的，完全没有问题。

我在前面提过，Business is far more than buying and selling。 客户要通过我买，我自然有充足的存在价值。

(paopaobing(32))

[ 本帖最后由 乘物以游心 于 2012-7-13 17:31 编辑 ]

乘物以游心

原帖由 大球球 于 2012-7-13 17:22 发表
看看这张东西，多少年了我这个客户ABC公司都是这样的，从来没有加GST给XYZ公司。
这个客户的生意里面 XYZ公司自己清关，和搂主的情况一样。

货物本身从美国，新加坡近来

谢谢球版！ 欢迎球版回归！ -- 最欢迎的版主。。。。。。

找到这里例子，给了我更多的信心，但是不知道能否找到更坚实的理论/条文依据呢？

(paopaobing(32))

乘物以游心

原帖由 lesli1109 于 2012-7-13 17:09 发表


Definition of 'Export', refer to GSTR2002/6 (just search this number on ATO's website). This ruling is all about 'GST: exports of goods'.

Could't type Chinese in office.

Personnally I agree with  ...

谢谢，我去找找这个条文看看。

大球球

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2012-7-13 17:28 发表


谢谢球版！ 欢迎球版回归！ -- 最欢迎的版主。。。。。。

找到这里例子，给了我更多的信心，但是不知道能否找到更坚实的理论/条文依据呢？

(paopaobing(32))

这个，我不是搞税务的，我觉得很多时候条文难，像楼上说的。到了一定程度，光靠条文难以判断
最典型的例子就是探亲父母能不能算澳洲税务人减点税的问题。有人做了，有人没做。很难说。

乘物以游心

原帖由 大球球 于 2012-7-13 17:40 发表

这个，我不是搞税务的，我觉得很多时候条文难，像楼上说的。到了一定程度，光靠条文难以判断
最典型的例子就是探亲父母能不能算澳洲税务人减点税的问题。有人做了，有人没做。很难说。

理解。 谢谢球版的例子！

乘物以游心

原帖由 lesli1109 于 2012-7-13 17:09 发表


Definition of 'Export', refer to GSTR2002/6 (just search this number on ATO's website). This ruling is all about 'GST: exports of goods'.

Could't type Chinese in office.

Personnally I agree with  ...

Lesli，我尽我的理解能力看了一下这个GSTR 2002/6，但是还是找不到非常贴切的解释，
这个条文也很长，洋洋洒洒上万字。。。。。
能否帮缩小以下范围啊？

出来气人

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2012-7-13 16:53 发表


这个回答看起来很合理，能找到确实的条文证据吗？

抱歉，条文我是在几年前课堂上接触过，现在忘了具体是哪一章节了，是在Customs Act.里面的。

但是我任职的公司每年进口15000个柜子，每种情况都有，In stock / Ex wharf / Indent....等，所以很清楚这一些列的操作和概念！像你们公司的这种交易也很多的。

所以，你们公司出具的应该是Commercial Invoice,上面的GST那一栏绝对是0。

乘物以游心

原帖由 出来气人 于 2012-7-13 19:00 发表


抱歉，条文我是在几年前课堂上接触过，现在忘了具体是哪一章节了，是在Customs Act.里面的。

但是我任职的公司每年进口15000个柜子，每种情况都有，In stock / Ex wharf / Indent....等，所以很清楚这一些列的操作和概念！像你们公司的这种交易也很多的。

所以，你们公司出具的应该是Commercial Invoice,上面的GST那一栏绝对是0。

谢谢回复！ 进一步坚定了我的信心了。

P.S.：15000多个柜子，多大的公司啊？！澳洲要数一数二了吧？  大家可以猜猜是哪个公司的。。。。。。

(paopaobing(32))

lesli1109

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2012-7-13 18:03 发表


Lesli，我尽我的理解能力看了一下这个GSTR 2002/6，但是还是找不到非常贴切的解释，
这个条文也很长，洋洋洒洒上万字。。。。。
能否帮缩小以下范围啊？

Item Topic These supplies are GST-free
1  Export of goods  A supply of goods, but only if the supplier exports them from Australia before, or within 60 days (or such further period as the Commissioner allows) after:
(a)  the day on which the supplier receives any of the consideration for the supply; or
(b)  if, on an earlier day, the supplier gives an invoice for the supply - the day on which the supplier gives the invoice.  

2  Export of goods - supplies paid for by instalments  A supply of goods for which the consideration is provided in instalments under a contract that requires the goods to be exported, but only if the supplier exports them from Australia before, or within 60 days (or such further period as the Commissioner allows) after:
(a)  the day on which the supplier receives any of the final instalment of the consideration for the supply; or
(b)  if, on an earlier day, the supplier gives an invoice for that final instalment - the day on which the supplier gives the invoice  

20. Under items 1 and 2, a supply of goods is GST-free where the supplier exports them from Australia and the export occurs within a specified time period. Item 1 applies to exports of goods generally. Item 2 applies where the consideration for the supply is provided in two or more instalments under a contract where it is an express or implied term that the goods are to be exported.

21. Both items require, not only that there is an export of goods, but that the supplier is the entity that exports them.

22. The requirement that the supplier is the entity that exports the goods is satisfied where either:

(a)  the supplier contracts at the supplier's own expense with an international carrier for the transportation of the goods to a destination outside Australia; or
(b)  the supplier is responsible for delivering the goods to the operator of a ship or aircraft who, or that, has been engaged by another party to transport those goods to a destination outside Australia; or
(c)  the requirements of subsection 38-185(3) are met (see paragraphs 67 to 81).
23. A supplier, therefore, exports goods where the goods are sent from Australia to another country pursuant to a contract of sale with terms such as DDP,5 CIF,6 or CPT.7 This is because under these terms, the supplier is responsible for contracting with a carrier to transport the goods to a named overseas destination.

24. A supplier also exports goods where the goods are sent from Australia to another country pursuant to a contract of sale with, for example, FOB8 terms. This is because under these terms, the supplier is responsible for delivering the goods on board a ship that has been engaged to carry them to an overseas destination.

这些段落中对于Export是有一些要求的，比如除了要有货物的export,supplier还必须是export的主体。。。。有的时候虽然货物是从澳洲公司A卖往海外，但是不代表A就一定是exporter.

神马浮云

发哥,有点意思. 神马飘过.

[ 本帖最后由 神马浮云 于 2012-7-13 21:58 编辑 ]

乘物以游心

原帖由 lesli1109 于 2012-7-13 21:38 发表

这些段落中对于Export是有一些要求的，比如除了要有货物的export,supplier还必须是export的主体。。。。有的时候虽然货物是从澳洲公司A卖往海外，但是不代表A就一定是exporter.

谢谢你查的资料，但是按这个定义的话，这种销售形式肯定就不能套 Export Sales了。

有没有其它更贴切的Terms呢？

michael.jyu

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2012-7-13 16:44 发表


这里只是讨论GST。

这些货款进出都是正常手续的，改进报表进报表，Company Tax、Income Tax啥的，该交的一样都不少的，没有什么隐瞒的。

没有什么不能往下说的，您千万别想多了。。。。。。

(paopaobing(32))

那就根据发哥的情况,只讨论GST.



温故一下三年前GSTworkshop的东西(workshopwas conducted by Dr Peter J. Klomp from Federation Chambers).


GST Act 1999 Division 13—Taxable importations
13-5 What are taxable importations?
(1) You make a taxable importation if:
(a) goods are imported; and
(b) you enter the goods for home consumption (within the meaning of the Customs Act 1901).
However, the importation is not a taxable importation to theextent that it is a *non-taxable importation.
Note: There is no registration requirement for taxableimportations, and the importer need not be carrying on an enterprise.
(3) However, an importation of *money is not an importationof goods into Australia.
从发哥你的情况是,你在上海把货就卖给下家了(你不符合export的情况, 你在澳大利亚海关根本没有出口的记录),是你的下家在进口goods到澳大利亚来.

GSTR 2003/15
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=GST/GSTR200315/NAT/ATO/00001
Taxable importations under Division 13
28. You make a taxable importation if you enter for homeconsumption (within the meaning of the Customs Act) goods imported intoAustralia.
29. Goods are typically imported into Australia when theyare brought to Australia to be unloadedhere.
'Imported' in this context has its ordinarymeaning.
28和29条你的情况不符,你没有向澳大利亚进口东西,你没有把货卸下港口.而是你的下家在做的进口,清关手续.


30. Imported goods are entered for home consumption, withinthe meaning of the Customs Act, by an 'owner', as defined in thatAct,
entering imported goods for home consumption.
The imported goods are entered by lodging an import entry in the name ofthe 'owner'.

31. If you, as 'owner', lodge an import entry in your name,you enter imported goods for home consumption within the meaning of the CustomsAct and you are liable to pay GST on that importation if the importation is ataxable importation.

32. Typically, the 'owner' that enters imported goods is thelegal owner of the goods, or the importer, exporter, consignee, or other personwith an interest in, or control of, the goods. While the 'owner' can lodge theentry for home consumption itself, it is more likely that a licensed customsbroker is engaged to prepare the entry on behalf of the 'owner'.
In either case, the entry is made in the nameof the 'owner' and, if it is a taxable importation, it is the owner that makesthe taxable importation and is liable for GST.
The customs broker does not make the taxable importation and is notliable for the GST on the taxable importation.

在上海,发哥的买家以FOB价把货买下,然后进口入澳大利亚,在进入澳洲是发哥你跟货物已经早就没有任何关系.你的买家是货物的主人,程序上是,文件上也是.下面ruling的agents的东东和你也没有关系.


33. The definition of 'owner' in the Customs Act alsoincludes an agent.
If an agent entersgoods for home consumption under an authority granted by the principal, it isthe principal, not the agent, that makes the taxable importation.
The principal is liable to pay the GST on ataxable importation made through an agent.

34. This is consistent with the general law of agency.
The acts of an agent are the acts of theprincipal, and the principal is bound to the legal effects of the transaction.

35. Where an agent enters goods on behalf of a principal,the name of the agent appears on the entry form (unless the agent engages acustomsbroker
and the goods are entered in the name of the principal).
As the entity that appears as 'owner' on theentry form is ordinarily the entity that makes the taxable importation and isliable to pay the GST, it is important to be able to demonstrate the existenceof an agency relationship where goods are entered in the name of an agent.
Verifying the existence of an agencyrelationship is important for both liability and input tax credit purposes.
(Entitlements to input tax credits arediscussed at paragraphs 46 to 70 below).

36. An agency relationship is created by the express orimplied intention of the parties.
Evidence of the agency relationship would normally exist in the form ofwritten instructions and clear authority granted to the agent.
We would also expect that there would be anarrangement for reimbursement of the agent by the principal for GST outlaid bythe agent or for the
principal to putthe agent in funds before the entry is made (unless a non-resident makes acreditable importation through a resident agent, see paragraphs 65 to 70below).

37. If an agent engages a customs broker to complete thecustoms formalities, the customs broker may be able to enter the goods in thename of the principal.
If this is thecase, it is clear that liability for GST on the taxable importation rests withthe principal, not the agent.

38. In summary, the entity that makes the taxableimportation, including an entity that makes a taxable importation through anagent, is liable to pay the GST on that taxable importation.
An agent may pay the GST on behalf of itsprincipal, but it is not liable to pay the GST.

39. However, general law agency principles are overridden inone special circumstance.
If the entitythat makes a taxable importation is a non-resident and that non-resident makesthe taxable importation through a resident agent, the resident agent is liableto pay the GST on the taxable importation, not the non-residentprincipal.

40. A non-resident entity makes a taxable importation
through
an Australian resident agent where thenon-resident appoints the agent to make the entry and the resident agent isentered as 'owner' on the customs entry.
As noted in paragraph 33, an agent may be the 'owner' for customs entrypurposes.

41. In these circumstances, a resident agent may alsoinclude a licensed customs broker where the broker is appointed to enter thegoods as an 'owner', in the capacity of an agent.
This is to be contrasted with the commonsituation where a customs broker merely facilitates the entry on behalf of an'owner', but the broker is not shown as 'owner' on the entry.

Taxable importations under Division 114
42. Taxable importations are also made in certaincircumstances when goods are not entered for home consumption.
These taxable importations occur when acircumstance listed in the table to subsection 114-5(1) occurs.
This table is set out at Appendix A to thisRuling.


注:1. 以上的讨论假设importation value is over its GST threshold, 2. 再次声明, 根据发哥提供的信息,只讨论GST based on individual transaction.

[ 本帖最后由 michael.jyu 于 2012-7-13 22:52 编辑 ]

heroine_n6600

you better to talk to them in person,

乘物以游心

原帖由 michael.jyu 于 2012-7-13 22:09 发表


那就根据发哥的情况,只讨论GST.



温故一下三年前GSTworkshop的东西(workshopwas conducted by Dr Peter J. Klomp from Federation Chambers).


GST Act 1999 Division 13—Taxable importations
13-5 What are ...

谢谢回复！

周五这么晚了，实在没心思看了，明天早上一定好好拜读！

削菠萝去啦！！！

(paopaobing(32))

lee2267

终于可以国语了。。37#给的invoice是对的。。。
做进出口的有几个要考虑的。。不光是gst。。。还有那个政府的啥 rebate 就有好几种。。eg: marketing Rebate每年就有好大一笔数字。。但是政府拿 rebate的条条框框也很多。。
gst方面的 +与不+ 不关是要看gst act 同是要看  corp law。。首先你对你公司的定义是啥？
赚 提成的 agent？ --貌似楼主已经回答不是。赚 提成的 agent 必须是 要 issue gst的。。
如果不是 赚 提成的 agent。那你公司的利润来源是那种类型？
1#说： 直接转手。。。这个里面大有文章的哇。。
正如28#说： 如果是你们公司负责清关，那你的报价必须加上GST，因为你们公司是在做importer
                    如果你们公司不负责清关，你的客户自己清关，你只是提供一部分清关资料（COMMERCIAL INVOICE  ETC），那叫：EX WHARF，严格意义上说词批货物不是你们公司进口的。。。如果是这个类型，货物进出口完全没有影响公司的利润。钱从左口袋进右口袋出。那你们公司利润来源就不是进出口。所以货物就不需要gst。。但是如果按照这个情况的话。。那你们公司的利润来源? 是不是professional service provider？如果是professional service provider 那你们就该单独issue invoice给你们客户（invoice with gst）for professional service charge。。

[ 本帖最后由 lee2267 于 2012-7-13 23:17 编辑 ]

xinxin119

原帖由 taxbreak 于 2012-7-13 13:40 发表


To put it simply because the transaction happened entirely offshore GST does not apply. Have a look at sec 9-25 of the 99GST act if anyone's interested.

我还是找不到gst definition 里的export 和 ordinary meaning 里的export 有什么不同

shangpin

答案是: 1

xinxin119

原帖由 lee2267 于 2012-7-13 23:13 发表
终于可以国语了。。37#给的invoice是对的。。。
做进出口的有几个要考虑的。。不光是gst。。。还有那个政府的啥 rebate 就有好几种。。eg: marketing Rebate每年就有好大一笔数字。。但是政府拿 rebate的条条框框也 ...

我觉得是国内厂家有限制，不允许卖给某某之外的企业。也许就夹个中间人转卖了。个人猜测。

annabanana

如果在上海接货。 那么你属于出口不需要加Gst。   那家公司是什么公司跟你没关系。 货到中国要交中国的关税跟增值税，跟Ato没关系

jeff_lawsons

不需要Charge GST， s9-25(1)
Supplies of goods wholly within Australia
             (1)  A supply of goods is connected withAustralia if the goods are delivered, or made available, in Australiato the *recipient of thesupply.

因为不是你运货清关，所以你没有满足connect with australia, 所以不需要charge GST.

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/vie ... 00031/NAT/ATO/00001

看Para 49， ATO ruling confirm了如果recipient 自己清关运货的话不connect with Australia, 楼主可以放心。 如果数目巨大，可以申请private ruling.

乘物以游心

原帖由 呼啸灯笼椒 于 2012-7-14 15:10 发表
另外我觉得lz的目的可能是增加自己公司的销售额

LS几个同学都说了他们公司也是这么操作的,
既然能够成为一个普遍的操作方式，自然有充足的理由，
而且有很多不同的理由，不做的人，凭空想象是想不到的，
但是这并不是今天要讨论的问题。

(paopaobing(32))

乘物以游心

原帖由 出来气人 于 2012-7-13 19:00 发表


抱歉，条文我是在几年前课堂上接触过，现在忘了具体是哪一章节了，是在Customs Act.里面的。

但是我任职的公司每年进口15000个柜子，每种情况都有，In stock / Ex wharf / Indent....等，所以很清楚这一些列的操作和概念！像你们公司的这种交易也很多的。

所以，你们公司出具的应该是Commercial Invoice,上面的GST那一栏绝对是0。

能解释一下 In stock / Ex wharf / Indent 这几种方式，都是怎么操作的吗？

乘物以游心

原帖由 神马浮云 于 2012-7-13 21:55 发表
发哥,有点意思. 神马飘过.

这是哪位“魔”道中人的马甲啊？！

(paopaobing(32))