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楼主:robert_jj

[移民入籍] 求助父母移民后的养老金问题 [复制链接]

发表于 2012-2-22 11:34 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Janice2188 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Janice2188 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
谢谢楼上各位的分享:)很有用
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发表于 2012-2-22 14:59 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 hy117 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 hy117 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
这个问题在一年前就在政府网站上看到过,有这么个感觉,
1. 对年龄有要求,男67,女63,每年有变化;
2.对居住期有要求,要累积10年以上,每年离境不得超过三个月,其中要有5年连续居住,对这连续怎么计算,一直有不同的解释,有极端的说法是一天也不能少,现在有人领这个pension,但是很少有人来通下消息。
3.住房,包括中国境内,如果拥有自住的、非豪宅,一般对领pension没有影响;
4.澳洲政策对缴纳个税没有要求,这是它的优势,有些国家有规定要交几年。
hy117

发表于 2012-2-22 15:47 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 hy117 于 2012-2-22 15:59 发表
这个问题在一年前就在政府网站上看到过,有这么个感觉,
1. 对年龄有要求,男67,女63,每年有变化;
2.对居住期有要求,要累积10年以上,每年离境不得超过三个月,其中要有5年连续居住,对这连续怎么计算,一直有不同的解释,有极端的说法是 ...

你提到的是申请养老金的基本要求,而上面提到的收入和资产核查是计算养老金数额。
好吧,再把养老金申请的基本要求,也搬上来吧,年龄要求是按照出生年月,计算退休年龄,具体有个表http://www.centrelink.gov.au/int ... ts/age_eligible.htm
Residence requirements
To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim.

To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:

an Australian citizen, or
the holder of a permanent resident visa, or
a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as "protected" before 26 February 2004.


To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements, unless:

you are claiming under an international social security agreement, or
you are a refugee or former refugee, or
you were getting Partner Allowance, Widow Allowance or Widow B Pension immediately before turning Age Pension age, or
you are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents and you had 2 years residency immediately before claiming Age Pension.
Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.

这10年内不能拿,是指PR首个10年内不能拿和住不住澳洲没有实质联系,这就是为什么143等父母投资移民类,需要经济担保10年内不拿政府福利。当然难民类和丧偶的除外.
Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.

10年期限是指PR,也就是PR加第一个RRV,就已经是10年了,也就是连续的十年,和是不是在澳洲呆十年是两回事,PR身份十年内是不能拿养老金的,或者就是PR5年,5年后在境外没有马上会来,而符合RRV签证要求,在国外呆的那段PR过期的时间是不算的,从RRV批下来后入境那天算另一个5年,5年一般都是连续的,除非就是现在刚出台的改一年,或者你第一个PR5不符合RRV5年,只给最低档3个月,那就只能自己呆在澳洲凑5年,因为你在海外持有效PR和RRV也是澳洲永居公民,福利部门在申请养老金上暂时我没看到有限制呆澳洲时限,只要你续的了RRV你就满足的了这个,居民身份,至于领取养老金期间可以离境多久,按福利局的解释是13周。13周以后养老金将逐步减少到离境时间超过26周。
如果按照你的第二点,要连续5年居住,早就入籍了。不过到底PR后是不是要居住澳洲一段时间后才可以申请,我要去问过福利部门,不过老人首个十年PR不能拿养老金这个要注意,不过大多数移民的时候,就有移民局要求经济担保10年,而担保人的资料一般是福利部门和移民局共享的,一旦发现,不单单钱要还,也许连PR也会影响。所以要注意这点。
Age Pension
You can generally get Age Pension for the total period of absence however, after 13 weeks your rate may change. It may change again if you remain outside Australia for more than 26 weeks. If you are travelling to New Zealand your rate may be affected by the Social Security Agreement between Australia and New Zeal

当然你后面提到的中国房子,海外财产,那是你自觉,就像养老金你想拿双份都不一定抓到你。同样的到底,海外资产算不算ATO的事,然后才轮到福利部门。最后一点我理解不了,对个税缴纳上,澳洲的个税额度一直排在发达国家前列,个税复杂程度也一直遥遥领先。“这个没有要求”本人不知从何解释......

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-22 16:50 编辑 ]

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发表于 2012-2-22 17:35 |显示全部楼层
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这样啊

发表于 2012-2-22 20:06 |显示全部楼层

回复 jimple 33# 帖子

此文章由 hy117 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 hy117 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
我在这里说的是有点跑题了,是想和大家讨论一下有关话题。
第四点,没有写全,我想说是指澳洲申请这种pension与缴纳个税没有直接联系。
'Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.'
关于这条,我的理解是与居住十年有直接关系,因为上面说or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years,应该是指居住期吧,pr身份没有时断是续的说法,哪怕没有在第一个五年住满2年,仍旧一直具有pr身份。
hy117

发表于 2012-2-23 11:56 |显示全部楼层

回复 hy117 35# 帖子

此文章由 jimple 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 jimple 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
原帖由 hy117 于 2012-2-22 21:06 发表
我在这里说的是有点跑题了,是想和大家讨论一下有关话题。
第四点,没有写全,我想说是指澳洲申请这种pension与缴纳个税没有直接联系。
'Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Austr ...

其实我已经和你说了,这个问题和我探讨没用,直接打个电话给福利局不就行了,既然你不肯打,那我帮你打好了,不过他们接电话很慢的,已经等了20分钟都没人接,而且还是direct line for senior        13 2300        Age Pension, Pensioner Concession Cards, Bereavement assistance, Widow B Pension, Wife Pension, and Commonwealth Seniors Health Card enquiries.
但愿接吧,不接只好看看偶什么时候有空直接过去打听一下。

Update:已经快半小时了还没人接,就这服务质量,而且这是senior部门的line,一般都是老人打的,估计年纪大的,也够耐心等的,反正就连着,直到有人接好了,我先去忙些别的,有结果再回复大家。

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 13:04 编辑 ]
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发表于 2012-2-23 13:03 |显示全部楼层
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刚刚通完电话,等了差不多30分钟,不过福利局的爷爷说话还是蛮可以的,被我多绕绕也没怨言,毕竟年纪大的人还是比我有耐心啊...(好了,我不墨迹了,咱谈正经的),
这个拿hy117的话当例子:
第一:我想说是指澳洲申请这种pension与缴纳个税没有直接联系。
错误,福利局的爷爷跟我说养老金是TAXABLE INCOME, 所以需要交税,我还绕了一下,如果海外收入呢?爷爷说具体要问ATO。看样子是我之前问多了有些不开心了。

第二:也就是我问的最具体的一条
'Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.'
“关于这条,我的理解是与居住十年有直接关系,因为上面说or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years,应该是指居住期吧,pr身份没有时断是续的说法,哪怕没有在第一个五年住满2年,仍旧一直具有pr身份。”

这个理解也是错误的,福利局的爷爷一开始被我问懵了,什么海外,什么境内,然后搬出RESIDENCY 的含义,晕,和移民局上的不就一样的嘛。干脆点,我就问;“如果PR处境换了RRV,移民局通过审核,符合的,可以算吗?”爷爷说:“那么问题的,只要移民局记录里面是10年PR就符合,心里想:”搞定。境内境外没有关系。“


所以综合上述。10年居民身份要求,或者累计10年其中一个5年连续,是指身份,不是时间。

大家注意了,只要移民局没问题,福利局也没问题的。
简单的说5年两年可以签RRV,你的PR在境内境外都是连续的5年,只要符合这个要求,
如果不符合,移民局不签5年,或者签你一年(新的条款),或者3个月,再或者你在国外或者出境前做了不该做的(犯法的事)取消你的签证,那你就回不来了。

记得RRV现在最安全是在澳洲境内签,除非是符合5年2年条件的.(具体参照本人RRV一帖),符合要求是没有时断时续的说法,一直在境内更没必要讨论(这不废话)。
我的意思当然是指境内境外经常跑不符合要求的嘛.符合要求还有什么好讨论的。

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发表于 2012-2-23 14:17 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 玻璃种满绿 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 玻璃种满绿 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
10年PR就符合。  太 好了。

发表于 2012-2-23 14:43 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 玻璃种满绿 于 2012-2-23 15:17 发表
10年PR就符合。  太 好了。

具体的申请养老金前,请详细咨询福利局,福利法案每年也有变化,也希望大家办完之后多来更新,造福大家。

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发表于 2012-2-23 16:17 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 14:03 发表
刚刚通完电话,等了差不多30分钟,不过福利局的爷爷说话还是蛮可以的,被我多绕绕也没怨言,毕竟年纪大的人还是比我有耐心啊...(好了,我不墨迹了,咱谈正经的),
这个拿hy117的话当例子:
第一:我想说是指澳洲申请这种pension与缴纳个 ...


I think you have made the poor man confused.....

In general, social security payments from Centrelink are only available to people who reside in Australia and are either Australian citizens or holders of permanent visas.

It's on Centrelink's website. Loud and Clear. I've confirmed with Centrelink a couple years back, unless policy changed since. Temporary departs AU for less than 14 weeks still OK, but anything longer than that means you lose the residency for payments.(You will not lose your permanent residence).

What is Australian Residence?--To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia and are either Australian citizens or holders of permanent visas.

[ 本帖最后由 PokerFace 于 2012-2-23 17:31 编辑 ]

发表于 2012-2-23 16:39 |显示全部楼层

回复 PokerFace 40# 帖子

此文章由 jimple 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 jimple 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
原帖由 PokerFace 于 2012-2-23 17:17 发表


I think you have made the poor man confused.....

In general, social security payments from Centrelink are only available to people who reside in Australia and are either Australian citizens or hold ...

我们说的是申请,而你说的是什么情况下,福利会被取消,我也问了,从离境13周开始,你的rates会被影响(reduced payments),但在26周后会被停,停止前(26周)回来,扣除的那部分还给你.
In general, social security payments from Centrelink are only available to people who reside in Australia and are either Australian citizens or holders of permanent visas.
这句话一点没错,而是你搞错了,申请的时候必须是在澳洲,申请之前,只需要符合移民局要求连续10年PR,这就是我上面回复的,而你提到的是通过养老金审核后,拿养老金和其它福利一样,离境时间不得超过26周,我觉得很清楚,一个是申请要求,http://www.centrelink.gov.au/int ... s/age_residence.htm,首个PR十年不能拿养老金,其它PR因该是我记得是2年(错了不要踩我,福利局网页已经看的我腻了,我又不拿的),
一个是审批通过以后,继续拿福利的要求。必须是境内申请,单次离境不超过26周,超过停掉,你回澳还可以再重新申请。
有什么问题,还可以继续问,但希望仔细看贴,如果是我写的不清楚,不好意思。
有机会我会把福利局有关法案搬上来就更清楚了,不过最近有点忙。http://www.centrelink.gov.au/int ... als/legislation.htm

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发表于 2012-2-23 16:45 |显示全部楼层
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发表于 2012-2-23 18:20 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 17:39 发表

我们说的是申请,而你说的是什么情况下,福利会被取消,我也问了,从离境13周开始,你的rates会被影响(reduced payments),但在26周后会被停,停止前(26周)回来,扣除的那部分还给你.
In general, social security payments from Cent ...


辛苦了,谢谢奉献!

发表于 2012-2-23 19:26 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 PokerFace 于 2012-2-23 17:17 发表


I think you have made the poor man confused.....

In general, social security payments from Centrelink are only available to people who reside in Australia and are either Australian citizens or hold ...

这个是去lodge,也就是申请,也就是我说的
Residence requirements
To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim.

To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:

an Australian citizen, or
the holder of a permanent resident visa, or
a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as "protected" before 26 February 2004.
拜托看东西要看全部,不要只看你需要的部分,人家福利局写的很清楚,to lodge, 也就是去申请,申请人必须是PR或者公民,而且必须境内(living in Australia),
但如果不符合申请之前10年PR或者累计10年,其中连续5年,不能拿养老金。(To be paid......)
To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements, unless:

you are claiming under an international social security agreement, or
you are a refugee or former refugee, or
you were getting Partner Allowance, Widow Allowance or Widow B Pension immediately before turning Age Pension age, or
you are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents and you had 2 years residency immediately before claiming Age Pension.
Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.
我之前是探讨的to be paid, 即使是PR身份,年龄,资产,收入都符合,但是申请前PR不满10年,就不可以拿,这个就是电话里福利局爷爷提醒我的,不然我这个AOS(经济担保金就没了),但一旦10年期限一过,只要你还是PR或者公民,在境内随时可以申请,


所以综合一下,免得又绕圈,to lodge, 申请, 只要是PR或者公民。境内递交申请。也就是福利局说的To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:an Australian citizen, or
the holder of a permanent resident visa......
To be paid,要拿到养老金,就不单单是澳洲PR或者公民,而是必须10年PR或者公民,10年PR,不是境内时间10年,而是移民局认可的10年PR身份。一般10年只要,5年呆2年。
希望这样清楚了。
再以youth allowance为例,这个期限是104weeks.To be paid Youth Allowance, you also need to have been in Australia as an Australian resident for at least 104 weeks. However, there are some exceptions.
http://www.centrelink.gov.au/int ... ts/ya_residence.htm
有空再找relative sections in act, 现在不行,不好意思。

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 20:41 编辑 ]

发表于 2012-2-23 20:40 |显示全部楼层
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我也跟centrelink打电话咨询过,得到的答复是,要想拿到养老金,就必须是PR 并且以PR身份在澳洲居住10年以上(其中一段连续五年)。 如果期间你离开澳洲超过三个月,这个十年就往后顺延超出的部分。
自己想想也对,不然澳洲政府不是太傻了,给你一个PR,你就在这里呆个4年,不给澳洲做贡献,等你老了,还得养你,有这好事??让你起码在这住10年,消费10年,也才算是贡献了。

发表于 2012-2-23 21:08 |显示全部楼层

回复 jimple 44# 帖子

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我认为:

To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim。
To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10-year qualifying Australian residence requirements。The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years.

这两句话里的“Australian resident”的概念是一样的。To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:
an Australian citizen, or
the holder of a permanent resident visa, or
a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as "protected" before 26 February 2004.  是在澳洲境内以PR身份居住。

我们不同的论点在:是不是得有10年在澳洲境内(PR)。PR是肯定必须的啦。

见网页:http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/sa/sen ... ges/AgePension.aspx

Residence Requirements
To qualify for Age Pension you must be an Australian resident (that is, living in Australia on a permanent basis) and in Australia on the day the claim is lodged, and must also satisfy one of the following:

be an Australian resident for a total of at least 10 years, with at least five of these years in one period; or
。。。。。。
Special rules apply to residence in countries with which Australia has an International Social Security Agreement. Residence in these countries may count towards the minimum 10-year residence requirement.

如果像你所说,to be paid的时候只要PR10年,跟在不在境内10年没有关系。那他们这个special rule的逻辑是什么?希望你能找出ACT来,造福万民啊。

[ 本帖最后由 令狐一刀 于 2012-2-23 22:50 编辑 ]
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发表于 2012-2-23 21:14 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 令狐一刀 于 2012-2-23 21:40 发表
我也跟centrelink打电话咨询过,得到的答复是,要想拿到养老金,就必须是PR 并且以PR身份在澳洲居住10年以上(其中一段连续五年)。 如果期间你离开澳洲超过三个月,这个十年就往后顺延超出的部分。
自己想想也对,不然澳洲政府不是太傻了,给你一个PR,你就在这里呆个4年,不给澳洲做贡献,等你老了,还得养你,有这好事??让你起码在这住10年,消费10年,也才算是贡献了。


感谢共享。但,有些不明白。
请问,
1,文中提到的---- 如果期间你离开澳洲超过三个月,这个十年就往后顺延超出的部分。
是说,如果不想顺延,每年不得离开澳洲超过三个月。
还是这个十年中,累计不得离开澳洲超过三个月?
2,文中提到的----以PR身份在澳洲居住10年以上(其中一段连续五年)。
是说,以PR身份在澳洲居住10年以上,其中有连续五年的时间不得离开过澳洲
还是说,有连续五年的时间,每年出境时间不超过三个月,就等同为连续五年的时间没有离开过澳洲了。

不好意思,有点绕。

[ 本帖最后由 ToT 于 2012-2-23 22:20 编辑 ]
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禁止发言

发表于 2012-2-23 21:21 |显示全部楼层
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kao la ji  !

发表于 2012-2-23 21:46 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 ToT 于 2012-2-23 22:14 发表


感谢共享。但,有些不明白。
请问,
1,文中提到的---- 如果期间你离开澳洲超过三个月,这个十年就往后顺延超出的部分。
是说,如果不想顺延,每年不得离开澳洲超过三个月。
还是这个十年中,累计不得离开澳洲超过三个月?
2,文中 ...


不是每年,是每次。每次不超过3个月,就还算连续的时间。那我就问他,那我每三个月就回来登陆一天,不是也行?他就笑,他说如果他们发现有可疑的这种情况,他们会调查的。

发表于 2012-2-23 21:53 |显示全部楼层
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SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 No. 46, 1991 - SECT 7
Australian residence definitions

  7. (1) In this Act, unless the contrary intention appears:
  "Australian resident" has the meaning given by subsection (2);
  "qualifying Australian residence" has the meaning given by subsection (5).
  (2) An Australian resident is a person who:
  (a)  resides in Australia; and
  (b)  is one of the following:
      (i)  an Australian citizen;
     (ii)  a person who is, within the meaning of the Migration Act
1958, the holder of a valid permanent entry permit;
    (iii)  a person who has been granted, or who is included in, a
return endorsement, or a resident return visa, in force under that Act;
     (iv)  a person who:
       (A)  is, for the purposes of that Act, an exempt non-citizen;
and
       (B)  is likely to remain permanently in Australia.
Note: "exempt non-citizen" is defined in section 5 of the Migration Act 1958:
it covers non-citizens who are diplomats, members of armed forces, ships' crew
members and others and, under section 7 of the Act, exempt non-citizens do not
need an entry permit or entry visa to enter Australia.


  (3) In deciding for the purposes of this Act whether or not a person is
residing in Australia, regard must be had to:
  (a)  the nature of the accommodation used by the person in Australia; and
  (b)  the nature and extent of the family relationships the person has in
Australia; and
  (c)  the nature and extent of the person's employment, business or financial
ties with Australia; and
  (d)  the nature and extent of the person's property located in Australia;
and
  (e)  the frequency and duration of the person's travel outside Australia;
and
  (f)  any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to
remain permanently in Australia.
  (4) For the purposes of:
  (a)  Part 2.2 (age pension); and
  (b)  Part 2.3 (invalid pension); and
  (c)  Part 2.4 (wife pension); and
  (d)  Part 2.5 (carer pension); and
  (e)  Part 2.6 (sole parent pension); and
  (f)  Part 2.7 (widowed person allowance); and
看PART 3的a,b,c,d,e,f吧,具体我想如果这个礼拜有空,我会去问一下福利部门,我没有查所有的Social Security Amendment Act , 大家谁有空可以上去看看http://www.comlaw.gov.au/
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bi ... 2Fau&mask_path=

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 23:07 编辑 ]

发表于 2012-2-23 22:09 |显示全部楼层
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(3) In deciding for the purposes of this Act whether or not a person is
residing in Australia, regard must be had to:
  (a)  the nature of the accommodation used by the person in Australia; and
  (b)  the nature and extent of the family relationships the person has in
Australia; and
  (c)  the nature and extent of the person's employment, business or financial
ties with Australia; and
  (d)  the nature and extent of the person's property located in Australia;
and
  (e)  the frequency and duration of the person's travel outside Australia;
and
  (f)  any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to
remain permanently in Australia.

就一般人家父母,如果父母真的不在澳洲长住,国内有房产,澳洲不买自住房,又长时间在国内。想跟澳洲政府辩论这些,估计胜算不大。
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发表于 2012-2-23 22:16 |显示全部楼层
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这不是胜算的问题,福利局提出3个月总有法律依据,又不是国内可以随便说说的,我需要详细的看看,需要时间的,拜托.....要不你帮我一起查吧?就像RRV缩短时间一样,一定要要有Cth Legislation, 不然他们是没有权利说这个3个月期限的,即使是AMENDMENTS.(今天网速不理想哦,我在一直断线都郁闷死了,你就别添乱了,找得到最好,找不到我明天拿个去趟福利局,就行了。又不犯法的,呵呵。)

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 23:25 编辑 ]

发表于 2012-2-23 22:39 |显示全部楼层
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等我精神的时候也翻翻,现在看到legislation就犯困。

一般他们都说13周,26周,104周的,可以在资料里搜搜这些字眼,可能快一点。

发表于 2012-2-23 23:07 |显示全部楼层
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Background - a residence-based system
The Australian income support system differs from those of most other developed countries, in that it is funded from general revenue, rather than from direct contributions by individuals and employers. Instead of reflecting the level and duration of contributions into a social insurance fund, Australian income support is based on residence and need.

In general, a person must be an "Australian resident", as defined in the Social Security Act 1991, in order to qualify for Australian social security payments. An Australian resident is a person who resides in Australia and has permission to remain permanently—either because they are: an Australian citizen; the holder of a permanent visa; or a protected Special Category visa holder (as described below).In deciding whether a person is residing in Australia, factors such as the person's domestic, financial and family ties to Australia are taken into account, as well as the frequency and duration of any absences from Australia and the reasons for such absences.

而移民局也有这些要求,不然是不会这么容易签到RRV的,5年未满两年的话,不想找了,还是有空的时候去趟好了,最好能找出这个3个月到底怎么来的,最起码有个CASE LAW 出来。The amendments to the Social Security Act effected from 1 July 1984 to incorporate the concept of absent resident, in our view, support the subjective approach that must be taken to ascertain the status and residence of applicants. Earlier authorities, such as Houchar's case 5 ALN 449 must now be approached with some caution in the light of these legislative amendments. In that case, however, Deputy President Thompson recognised, even under the old legislation, that the question whether a person's absence from Australia was temporary only, had to be ascertained by reference to the person's intentions from time to time, ascertained objectively from all the evidence available.

That a lengthy time interval can be consistent with a temporary absence was demonstrated in Alam's case 4 ALD 538. The applicant and her husband went to Lebanon for a six month holiday to see their respective aged and sick parents. They were unfortunate enough to be caught up in the warfare between Moslem and Christian groups at the time, and did not return to Australia until almost five years later. The Tribunal held that it could not be fairly said that the applicant had a settled or usual abode in Lebanon during that period. The insurgency and actual warfare was the principal element holding her there. The death of one parent and the demands of sentiment put further pressure on her to postpone her return. At no point did she intend to establish a residence outside Australia.

Similarly in Mengi's case 6 ALN N320, the applicant's wife, who was in Turkey for approximately nine years, was held nevertheless to be resident in Australia during that period. The Tribunal held that her initial absence from Australia had not deprived her of Australian residential status because that absence was intended to be temporary. Her continued absence could be construed as temporary because of her continuing efforts to return to this country.

As has been pointed out on a number of occasions (see for example recently Smith's case (N84/530, 22 May 1985)) subjective considerations are the golden threads that consistently run through the fabric of social security situations. Having regard to the nature of the questions that have to be answered, this is not surprising. Subjective considerations (like pain) are real and tangible and can be proved like any other fact. Where they depend upon the word of the person most closely affected, satisfactory proof usually involves corroboration by objective facts. The absence of those facts, however, does not necessarily mean that the subjective consideration has not been proved. It simply means that it has not been proved in a particular way. In cases like the present, where the only witnesses are the applicants, where the veracity of their evidence is not seriously challenged, where their demeanour and sincerity are apparent, the need for corroboration is not so great. As we said earlier, we have no reason to reject any of the evidence given by the applicants.

On the question of the "relationship to the country of some closeness", their evidence has been clear, consistent and repeated, not only before this Tribunal but before every other person and organisation concerned with their case. We find that at all relevant times they were domiciled in this country, they were usually resident, and they were temporarily absent. Both decisions under review, therefore, are set aside and the matters are remitted to the respondent with the following directions.

In the case of Mr Issa's application, the direction is that the invalid pension should be granted from the date of his application.

In the case of Mrs Issa's application, the direction is that the family allowance should be recalculated and be paid to her for the relevant period on the assumption that she has received value for those cheques that were forwarded and cashed between 1975 and 1980
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bi ... ecurity%20residence
我又不和他们打官司的,不过就像你说的,如果有这句话在:“如果期间你离开澳洲超过三个月,这个十年就往后顺延超出的部分。”我一定问清楚。
不过现在我该去睡觉了。呵呵,早睡早起,身体好....再说现在也不早了。

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-24 00:10 编辑 ]

发表于 2012-2-23 23:32 |显示全部楼层
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忘记补充一点,pension 的表格上也就来27-38这些个问题问到这这些,不过我明天或者下个礼拜还是问问清楚,福利局到底搞什么东东.http://www.centrelink.gov.au/int ... estores/sa002_1012/$file/sa002_1012en.pdf
要我填肯定全填对自己有利的,然后让他们自己去查,反正这个residing in Australia本就是个,主观考虑因素,和移民局的5年两年条件是一样的,如果移民局的签证RRV可以下来,本来不满两年需要证明和澳洲的联系,那福利局又有什么问题?移民局这边已经承认你还是永久居住身份,福利局难道说你不是?移民局发RRV是出于什么?
如果弄出这么个关系,就很可笑的.

发表于 2012-2-23 23:35 |显示全部楼层
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学习了
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发表于 2012-2-24 09:34 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 jimple 于 2012-2-23 20:26 发表

这个是去lodge,也就是申请,也就是我说的
Residence requirements
To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim.

To qualify as an A ...


If that's the case, wouldn't be much clear if they say : "Note: The 10-year Australian resident requirement means you have been an Australian Permanent resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods which total more than 10 years, with one of the periods being at least 5 years."

发表于 2012-2-24 09:42 |显示全部楼层
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没去,只是又打了个电话,电话里面说的其实就是ACT里面的东西,度假什么可以,度假只能不多于半年,反正说来说去如何证明residing in Australia, 是他们去查,短期停留和旅游等等是没问题的(废话),其它的估计要按每个人的条件来了。反正暂时我父母还没到,等到了,不给批,大不了等一段,再批,几次都不批,非要等5年,就tribunal 见好了。又没个明文,在那里含糊着,来个明文不就行了。说不定几年后又会改的,就这么麻烦的条款,执行起来也是人为的度量,这不找打官司嘛。
第一次打去说只要移民局没问题,他们就没问题。
第二次打去说10年当中不能离境。一次都不能(叫他查清楚再和我说,直接把我电话挂了。
第三次有个可爱耐心的奶奶,解释了一边又一遍,不过简单的说,这个怎么个查法,怎么个衡量法,都是他们自己决定的,说什么就像之前楼上提到的,不贡献澳洲,就不会有,这条款是她定的?贡献怎衡量?买一套100万房子,就不需要住,那也就说好了,开个价嘛,不过看婆婆态度好,又苦口婆心,就不争了,我本人只看条款,如果条款符合,而所谓的福利局的衡量方法觉得过不去,就去投诉,打个官司,当然理由就是那个section里面的。当然如果自己觉得自己理由不够充分的,就不要去试了。不过说不定这一条几年后就又改了。

[ 本帖最后由 jimple 于 2012-2-24 11:00 编辑 ]

发表于 2012-2-24 20:10 |显示全部楼层
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同意15楼和45楼的意见。

父母付费移民来澳洲,本就是图个家庭团聚,要是为了10年后领取澳洲政府的救济金而不敢离境,真是有些累哦。

不过我的感觉是福利局的职工也不是各个都精通条例的,通常都是各有各的说法,多打几次电话就会得到不同的解释,有时感觉他们有些业务不太精通啊,真是hopeless

发表于 2012-2-24 21:28 |显示全部楼层
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10年期限是指PR,也就是PR加第一个RRV,就已经是10年了,也就是连续的十年,和是不是在澳洲呆十年是两回事,PR身份十年内是不能拿养老金的


不敢说你绝对误导了,但是误导的可能性太大了。
拿PR 10年跟居住10年是2个概念。拿养老金自然还是按照居住10年来算的。

PR签证的有效期是5年是没错,你可以续5年的RRV也没错,但是你不续RRV,就一辈子待在澳洲境内,那又如何?难道就不是PR了吗?就算PR签证过期了,就算一辈子都没有申请RRV,也没有入籍,养老金必然还是发的。因为你仍是澳洲的永久居民。

所以住满10年更合理,而拿PR签证10年而不需要居住10年就可以领取养老金是显得荒唐的。

为啥还要规定5年是连续的?当然是指居住了,第一个PR签证难道不都是5年连续的吗?如果10年居住要求,只是指PR签证 10年的要求,5年连续的规定不是画蛇添足了吗?

按照你的说法,第一个PR签证过期了,马上续RRV,无论你住在哪里,再5年后就有资格领取养老金了;而第一个PR签证过期了,却一辈子不续RRV,就只是在澳洲以PR身份居住,也不入籍,难道就不能领养老金了? 其实,RRV充其量只是一个签证,给予澳洲永久居民一个自由出入澳洲国境的权利,和养老金的发放又怎么会沾边呢?因此,10年要求肯定是居住的要求,而不是PR 签证10年的要求。你还搬出RRV来支持你的论点,太荒唐了。

另外,173父母移民,TR住满2年后转143PR,那么父母以后只要住满8年就可以领取养老金了,这也是centrelink明确给出的答复。这个和PR 10年又有何关系呢?

To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:

an Australian citizen, or
the holder of a permanent resident visa, or

这里明明说的居住的要求,至于中途渡假多久算是不满足连续5年居住的要求,那么这个需要问centrelink了。

此外,入籍要求是过去5年内4年居住时间,4年居住时间里最多离境不超过12个月。说的也是居住的要求。

PR 10年而不是居住10年的说法,非常站不住脚。

如果站得住脚,那么拿到PR 2年后,除了短登外,并不在澳洲居住,那么就可以推理有资格申领失业救济了。这个显然是很可笑的。失业救济的条件之一是住满2年。而养老金的领取资格,其10年 Australian resident 身份在澳洲居住的要求,必然也是居住的要求而不是PR签证 拿满10年的要求,更和RRV没有一毛钱关系。

如果和RRV没有一毛钱关系,你的观点就是站不住脚的。最后罗嗦一次,你的观点完全解释不了:第一个PR签证过期了,却一辈子不续RRV,就只是在澳洲以PR身份居住,也不入籍的人也有资格领取养老金。更没法解释为啥有5年连续居住的要求在那里。

另外,就是澳籍人士,如果不满足居住的要求,出生以后就是在海外居住的,那么他/她将来可以直接回澳洲领取养老金吗?显然是不可以的。如果可以,那么你的观点也许是站得住脚的。

[ 本帖最后由 yrqin 于 2012-2-24 22:43 编辑 ]

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