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楼主:parkv

[其他信息] 买房应该是租掉更合算 [复制链接]

发表于 2006-11-12 22:33 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 黑山老妖 于 2006-11-12 20:53 发表
I don't think tax return is counted as CASH flow. You can't pay all your bills after the tax return, once a year.
Also in Sydney the rental return is around 3.5% and the interest rate is 7% say. H ...


Couple of questions below:

1.Does 3.5% count in tax return?
2.Interest of 7% is what you will have to pay even if you buy and live in. The purpose of this practice is to save tax. Donot expect the rental income can cover home loan.
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发表于 2006-11-12 22:43 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 bulaohu 于 2006-11-12 22:30 发表
看过一本关于房产投资的书里说,回报要比利息率高3个百分点左右的房产才是positive cashflow. 照目前的房贷利息率来看,需要10%。就是说,30万的房子要租570-600左右才行。这样的房产实在难找。我在Darwin见到过几 ...


租出的收入不指望用来cover房贷款加上租房的费用;
只要租出收入大于或等于租入支出就可以了;
其他费用是你买房子总要支出的
但关键是你退到了所得税,用来支付你每月贷款利息

发表于 2006-11-12 22:58 |显示全部楼层
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"但关键是你退到了所得税,用来支付你每月贷款利息"
痴人说梦啊!

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发表于 2006-11-12 23:29 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 freetoau 于 2006-11-12 22:58 发表
"但关键是你退到了所得税,用来支付你每月贷款利息"
痴人说梦啊!

就是啊。等到退完税,房子也给银行收了。算了,没啥说得了。让LZ自己去看书吧。
Happy Wife = Happy Life
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发表于 2006-11-12 23:49 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 parkv 于 2006-11-12 21:05 发表


Aparently, cash flow is not the key for considerations here. There is no case if your monthly income cannot cover your expenses. You can always do your calculations beforehand, and if you canno ...

Not quite getting what you are trying to deliver but my gut feel is that you are mixing up capital repayment with cost of capital. Here is my simplified scenario analysis if I am asked to do a common sense check. I assume there are three scenarios 1. renting 2. buy as home 3. buy as investment property. Assumptions are as follow (all assumptions take simplest form but the logics remain the same). Renting would be the base case and in this analysis only the incremental cashflow is relevant. Only one yr analysis is taken here and in reality multiple yr projection is needed and NPV applied.

1. all scenarios assume the same property (current value $300k)
2. rent yield (include exp) 4.5%
3. mortgage rate 7.0%
4. assume cash deposit as alternative asset (yield 6%)
5. cash on hand $60k (would be used as first deposit)
6. Marginal tax rate 41.5%
7. all analysis should be done on after tax basis.
8. no capital growth
9. loan period is of substantial length. Therefore the first yr principle repayment is minimal and starting loan is a good proxy for debt balance for the first yr.

Scenario A: Renting
Base case, therefore the incremental cashflow = 0

Scenario B: Buy as home
   1. rent saving $300k x 4.5% = + $13.5k (after tax)
   2. loss of interest (after tax) -$60k x 6% x (1-0.415) = -$2.1k
   3. cost of debt $240k x 7% = -$16.8k

   Total after tax incremental = -$5.4k

Scenario C: Buy as investment property
   1. rent cost: the same as scenario A therefore NIL
   2. loss of interest (after tax) -$60k x 6% x (1-0.415) = -$2.1k
   3. cost of debt $240k x 7% x (1-0.415) = -$9.8k
   4. Rent income  $300k x 4.5% x (1-0.415) = + $7.9k (after tax)


  Total after tax incremental = -$4.0k

Note this is only one yr analysis and multiple yr projection is required and NPV applied. But when you pay down your principle, that means that your loss of interest will increase and cost of debt will drop. In short, negative gearing will only work when there is capital growth. Common sense will tell your if you are entitle to claim loss, you are losing money (notwithstanding it is smaller one with the help of ATO). Only current or future capital growth can make it worthwhile. Mortgage payment amount is irrelevant here as it is mix of principle repayment and interest cost. Principle repayment is a building of saving in your house and not a cost - therefore irrelevant. Also if you would like to do a simple NPV calc, I would suggest using wacc (weighted average cost of capital) rather than simple mortgage rate. The reason is that your saving in the house is a form of equity (therefore subject to level of volatility in the market and higher risk). If I use return on property trust as a proxy for equity in the house (15%???), wacc would be 20% x 15% + 80% x 7% = 8.6%.

[ 本帖最后由 philgu 于 2006-11-12 23:57 编辑 ]

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发表于 2006-11-13 02:54 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 parkv 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 parkv 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
原帖由 黑山老妖 于 2006-11-12 23:29 发表

就是啊。等到退完税,房子也给银行收了。算了,没啥说得了。让LZ自己去看书吧。


晕啊,领导,当然不指望用ATO退的税去还每个月的贷款或利息
但是,如果以一年为基础的话,你得到的退税相比你买房自住要多
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发表于 2006-11-13 03:03 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 philgu 于 2006-11-12 23:49 发表

Not quite getting what you are trying to deliver but my gut feel is that you are mixing up capital repayment with cost of capital. Here is my simplified scenario analysis if I am asked to do a co ...


Appreciate your analyses. Your analyses basically tell me, if i understand correctly, buying property as investment will make us better off.

发表于 2006-11-13 06:33 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 parkv 于 2006-11-13 03:03 发表


Appreciate your analyses. Your analyses basically tell me, if i understand correctly, buying property as investment will make us better off.

A最好!租房.感觉你已经想当然了,别人怎么解释,你都会认为买房出租最好.
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发表于 2006-11-13 08:47 |显示全部楼层
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楼主非常聪明哦, 买房肯定租掉更划算了, 不过是租给自己
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发表于 2006-11-13 09:23 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 parkv 于 2006-11-13 03:03 发表


Appreciate your analyses. Your analyses basically tell me, if i understand correctly, buying property as investment will make us better off.

Not necessarily. I can tell you if you change the assumptions, any one of three options might be optimal in certain circumstance. In the example I put, Option A is best, Option C is second and Option B is the worst. But it is based on premises that there is no capital growth. If there is, any one of these three could be the best options. Also remember you don't pay CGT on home residence and need to pay CGT on investment property (even it is halfed after 1 yr). So it is all dependent on the real market. The current rent market is going up (rent yield probably will go up by 50% by 2010). But even then, it is only make the valuation a bit more reasonable and doesn't make it a bargain. I felt amused that how people's mindset can be set in such a way that thinking property is always going to make money and safe.

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发表于 2006-11-13 09:31 |显示全部楼层
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LZ sounds like potential customer for westpoint.
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发表于 2006-11-13 11:47 |显示全部楼层
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如果LZ是业内人士,经常可以找到物超其值的房产,怎么做都挣钱。如果为了扣税,你要上多少税?值得吗?而且税都是自己交的,有的是好办法抵扣。你租别人的房子,费用也不低的,如果再经常搬家,更麻烦。结果就是,买房子赔,自己生活质量还差。

发表于 2006-11-13 12:32 |显示全部楼层
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也许可以和朋友一起买房,互相租,嘿嘿

发表于 2006-11-13 13:20 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 西边雨 于 13-11-2006 12:32 发表
也许可以和朋友一起买房,互相租,嘿嘿

这个是australia Property Investment杂志上介绍过的 一种方法,其实是可行的,呵呵,特别如果是亲戚。朋友么。。。难说。。。

发表于 2006-11-13 19:07 |显示全部楼层

thanks for all the inputs.

此文章由 parkv 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 parkv 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Esp Philgu, your approach of commenting basing on facts.

Every situation varies.I reckon this is one possible approach to go ahead - but may not be applied to all.
As a cliche, investments in property shall not be driven by tax gains.

It has been a worthwhile discussion and serve the purposes.
Adjourn now...

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