以个人名义开发的UNIT要交GST吗

guangcai

拟用个人名义开发3个UNIT，请问销售后要缴纳GST吗？谢谢

LENNY_DONG

这个东西很TRICKY
如果你买各地出租几年再开发可能可以说是INVESTMENT。
如果你买来马上开发可以说你是BUSINESS。 那么会交GST
但是ONCE  OFF 开发有时候可能可以说是投资性质那么不要交GST
你要准备所有材料和依据证明是投资目的。建议咨询你会计

cerinahe

你有没有注册gst，有没有claim GST on any purchase?

jeff_lawsons

The facts of your case show a clearly identifiable commercial quality to the transaction. The form and extent of the activities to be undertaken by you are sufficient to change the character of the asset (land) from a capital asset to a trading asset. New lots will be produced through strata-titling and new residential premises will be constructed. The development is being done for the purpose of sale at a profit.

it is considered that you are carrying on a commercial activity amounting to more than a realisation of a capital asset and therefore satisfy the definition of an enterprise under the GST Act.

Once it is established that you are carrying on an enterprise, you are required to register for GST if your annual turnover meets the registration turnover threshold. For entities, other than non-profit bodies, the registration turnover threshold is $75 000. The value of a supply is 10/11ths of the price of the supply. As the value of each unit is likely more than $75 000, you are required to be registered.

You need to charge GST on the sell. However you probably can apply the margin scheme to the sale of the units. If you are able to apply the margin scheme, then GST paybale is equal to 1/11th of the margin. ( the difference between the sale price of the unit and the proportionate cost price of the land.)

lee2267

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-7 12:24
The facts of your case show a clearly identifiable commercial quality to the transaction. The form a ...

'it is considered that you are carrying on a commercial activity amounting to more than a realisation of a capital asset and therefore satisfy the definition of an enterprise under the GST Act." 有争议的。。

我一个客户买了块地。。划3片造了3个townhouse。。soler trader abn 。注册gst。。。
买地不交gst。。subdivision 地交了gst。。造房claim gst。。卖房margin schedule ，pay gst。。

ato审计结果。cancel gst 注册。cancel abn 注册。。追回 造房claim的 gst， 免除卖房margin schedule ，pay gst。
缘由不符合commercial activity。。ONCE  OFF 的 投资性质。
从 买地到房子卖出 签合同只有11个月。。没有cg 50% 折扣。。全额缴税。。

同意 2#的专家说法撒“这个东西很TRICKY”。。

jeff_lawsons

lee2267 发表于 2013-6-7 12:59
'it is considered that you are carrying on a commercial activity amounting to more than a realisat ...

May be the ATO thinks your client does not carry a enterprise becasue they don't have a reasonable expectation of profit or gain?


May be your client sold at a loss or sold to related party with no intention of making a profit?

lee2267

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-7 13:12
May be the ATO thinks your client does not carry a enterprise becasue they don't have a reasonable ...

May be your client sold at a loss or sold to related party with no intention of making a profit? --NO Huge Profit made as i mentioned B4, NO 50% CGT discout apply ...

jeff_lawsons

lee2267 发表于 2013-6-7 15:14
May be your client sold at a loss or sold to related party with no intention of making a profit? - ...

You could be right, however it's very rare that will happen .


It could happen if your client did not intend to make a profit when he first started the development. For example, he decided to hold it as an investment property and derive rental income form it.  However he was sick and were unbale to work full time and he found it difficult meeting his loan obligation and had no option but to sell the new dwelling to repay the loan.

Then the profit on the sale of the subdivided property is not considered to be oridnary income, the proceeds will represent a mere realisation of a capital asset and will fall for consideration under the CGT provisions.  In this case, no GST issue.

But i will say 99.9% of this kind of property development will be required to register for GST because it is carrying on an enterprise.

lee2267

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-7 16:23
You could be right, however it's very rare that will happen .

同意你的观点。。。里面有太多的细节。。。

就我观点 “以个人名义开发的UNIT” 还是不要搞了 。。建个trust也没几个钱

原来

有margin shceme吗

lee2267

原来 发表于 2013-6-7 16:50
有margin shceme吗

肯定有的。。。不过做到过２个案例。。就在　sts－tax　兄住的　那个地方。。
２０１１　年　一客户造了６套townhouse　。。卖出的时候律师找的是那个地方的律师。，。用的是１９９９年的合同。没有margin shceme。。　６套townhouse　gst　损失了１８w　。。卖房中介也不管事。，。只管收commision。。

客户控告律师。。律师赢了。传说１９９９年的合同版本失效期是２０１x。

jeff_lawsons

lee2267 发表于 2013-6-7 20:26
肯定有的。。。不过做到过２个案例。。就在　sts－tax　兄住的　那个地方。。
２０１１　年　一客户造了 ...

一般来讲都是 客户先问accountant GST issue，accountant会告诉客户margin scheme到底可不可以用。 然后叫客户通知律师写在合同里。一般合同会给accountant review。 确认符合条件。再让客户告诉律师ok

原来

搞开发还是用trust吧 比较灵活

lee2267

jeff_lawsons 发表于 2013-6-7 23:02
一般来讲都是 客户先问accountant GST issue，accountant会告诉客户margin scheme到底可不可以用。 然后 ...

客户已经欠款n 多n 久了。。。他想省钱不来咨询，结果失大了。。

超级

学习了

passpass712

学习了

vampire_k

lee2267 发表于 2013-6-7 13:59
'it is considered that you are carrying on a commercial activity amounting to more than a realisat ...

从 买地到房子卖出 签合同只有11个月。。没有cg 50% 折扣。。全额缴税。。

这个12月的CGT 50%折扣，是买地到卖房之间12个月？还是房子盖好到卖房之间12个月啊？

lqyhannah

lee2267 发表于 2013-6-7 21:26
肯定有的。。。不过做到过２个案例。。就在　sts－tax　兄住的　那个地方。。
２０１１　年　一客户造了 ...

这个案例没明白啊，老大，买地在2000年7月1日之前的话，不是算2000年7月1日地的价值吗，应该apply margin scheme，但是因为合同时99年的，所以不算margin scheme？

6套townhouse损失GST，是指不能向ATOclaim GST，还是神马意思？

小白啊小白~

mdjz

记得我们以前老师说，夫妻老婆不成立公司的情况下的小型开发，并且每次只开发一个地方的话，是没有GST
的。

还强调说每次只能一个。。。开发完一个卖完。。再开发第二个。。。这种

LENNY_DONG

mdjz 发表于 2014-3-12 22:28
记得我们以前老师说，夫妻老婆不成立公司的情况下的小型开发，并且每次只开发一个地方的话，是没有GST
的。 ...

:

this is impossible

that way will be trade as business matter

vampire_k

LENNY_DONG 发表于 2013-6-7 05:44
这个东西很TRICKY
如果你买各地出租几年再开发可以说是INVESTMENT。
如果你买来马上开发可以说你是BUSINESS ...

想问一下。

“从 买地到房子卖出 签合同只有11个月。。没有cg 50% 折扣。。全额缴税。。”

这个12月的CGT 50%折扣，是买地到卖房之间12个月？还是房子盖好到卖房之间12个月啊？

LENNY_DONG

vampire_k 发表于 2015-8-30 16:30
想问一下。

“从 买地到房子卖出 签合同只有11个月。。没有cg 50% 折扣。。全额缴税。。”

卖房字签字合同时间

买房子签字合同时间

两者之间超过12个月

李十三

我也想知道

vampire_k

LENNY_DONG 发表于 2015-8-30 17:04
卖房字签字合同时间

买房子签字合同时间

原来是签字算啊。我还以为是SETTLE算恩。

JohnnySu

比较同意Jeff 的说法.

ATO对什么是"profit taking intention"的看法很严格. 就算开发两套, 自主一套,要卖另外那套的话,严格来讲也是revenue 没有CGT discount的. 可以参考MT2006/1 中间部分 "Examples of subdivisions of land that are enterprises" 特别是example 28 和29. 当然了, 实际操作怎样做的人都有, 毕竟抽查不到也没问题. 再说,用点结构也能规避一些风险..

至于GST, 新建的民用房是taxable supply, 参照上面MT2006/1的说法,GST是肯定要交的. 不报是硬着头皮冒风险罢了, 抽到是肯定有问题的. 而且GST的抽查机会比income tax大很多, ATO也跟title office有data matching 漏报的话会很明显.

建议做项目前先跟会计师了解清楚法律法规, 计划好了再做事实.

JohnnySu

lee2267 发表于 2013-6-7 12:59
'it is considered that you are carrying on a commercial activity amounting to more than a realisat ...

我看到的很多个案都跟你这个客户的结果恰恰相反.  ATO本身的处理都方法参差不齐.

但看法庭过往案例和MT2006/1的话, profit taking intention是很容易成立的.

你这个客户ATO可能是计算过他要交income tax会比GST多才做出了这样的判定. 如果是这样的情况你客户应该object. 胜算是肯定的.

JohnnySu

原来 发表于 2013-6-7 23:51
搞开发还是用trust吧 比较灵活

用个人, Trust, Company 还是Joint Venture(partnership) 要看项目规模,投资人结构和具体情况才能决定. Trust不一定是最好的选择.

lee2267

JohnnySu 发表于 2015-8-30 18:48
我看到的很多个案都跟你这个客户的结果恰恰相反.  ATO本身的处理都方法参差不齐.

但看法庭过往案例和MT ...

我擦。。2年多前的水贴被回复了。。

JohnnySu

lee2267 发表于 2015-8-30 20:33
我擦。。2年多前的水贴被回复了。。

谁挖出來的 。。。

kevinanna_2003

学习了