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[公司所得税] 求助 PTY公司如何合理避税? [复制链接]

发表于 2012-9-15 20:20 |显示全部楼层
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公司成立半年多 以前是sole trader
现在是PTY公司 2个Director
因为现在公司的钱不能随便拿出来分。。。所以我们准备和我们的会计商量怎么能拿出钱 并且能合理避税

特地在找会计之前 求助一下足迹的大虾们

会计在电话中说 可以买company car,或者lease 更好
请问还有没有其他更好的方法
谢谢大家!!!
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发表于 2012-9-15 21:19 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 3IX37 于 2012-9-16 17:31 编辑

Company tax rate is still 30%, individual tax rate varies, the top marginal rate is effectively 46.5% (including medicare levy)
This gives people with high income a lot of incentive to retain PTY company profit in the company and find a way to distribute to individual after tax.  Specially now under new s254T Corp Act 2001, company can distribute its profit to its shareholder as long as there is a net asset and solvent, which means a company can distribute profit to its shareholder even when there is no profit. And a distribution can be money or properties. s.6(1) ITAA 1936.

So in what forms can a company distribute?

1) to a emplyee, Wages and Fringe benefits, (any properties, loans and expenses reimbursements, etc)
2) to a Shareholder, Dividends and loans

In relation to the above-mentioned distributions, tax legislation has its own integrity provisions to prevent tax avoidence from happening . Like,
> section 44 ITAA 1936 contends distributions in either form of morney or property from a company to its shareholder are taxable as a dividend for shareholder.
> On the other hand, there is imputation system protect shareholders from double taxation, and
> For any un-repaid loans to a shareholder, Division 7A deems them as an un-frankable dividend, which is taxable at shareholder's hand. (you will lost the imputation credits company paid)
> for other benefits company provides to its employees (like car expenses, Lease benefits), there is a FBT (fringe benefit tax, which imposes 46.5% tax, the the top individual marginal tax rate, to the company.
> others like Value shifting regime, Capital account tainting rules, franking credit streaming rules and Part IVA anit-avoidance regime, etc. (i am not going to get in too much detail here)

> Furthermore, you also need to consider whether your company is PSI (personal service income) entity. There are deduction restrictions for PSI entities, if the required tests are not satisfied.

As you can see, the tax legislation is really sophisticated here in AU. and your business structure is just too simple to need a comprehensive tax planning.

For a company, you also need to meet ASIC requirements to lodge its Special purpose financial report with them and make a solvent declaration, maintain a company constitution and register, having a general meeting annually, keep all meeting minutes and resolution memos. (these are all Corporation Act requirements)
No mention there is GST compliance requirement. quarterly or annually BAS statement.

It is true, as a small business entity, you are eligible for SBE concession. But comparing to this benefits, i think your cost and burden over-weighs.  

For a small scale of business like yours, setting up a company might not be the most practical and economical exercise unless you are expecting it is getting bigger very soon. Accountants always want your business, once you set up a company, you need their services to meet all these legal compliance requirements. All these service will cost you $1,000 at least, which is really reasonable, as they need to go through all the transactions and make sure your company complies all the provisions mentioned above.  and there is an ASIC fees too. and trust me you don't want to get a lawyer involved to prepare your company constitution, which you might not have a choice, and it is costly.

As a sole trader, you won't have so many legal compliance requirements. and you can offset your business loss to your other income, as long as the required business tests are satisfied. For company all loss need to be carried forward for future year.

But company does give you a veil, so your person assets will not be liable to your business.

I hope this will help you to make an informed decision.

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发表于 2012-9-16 19:37 |显示全部楼层
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Thanks a lot, really a lot of information...........

发表于 2012-9-16 22:00 |显示全部楼层
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This is just a tip of ice berg.

发表于 2012-10-13 16:59 |显示全部楼层
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给亲人发工资,30000以下一般都能通过个人退税退回来。

发表于 2012-10-13 17:11 |显示全部楼层
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马克
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发表于 2012-10-13 17:15 |显示全部楼层
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mark

发表于 2012-10-13 18:53 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 15:59
给亲人发工资,30000以下一般都能通过个人退税退回来。

Wage is an expenses necessarily incurred for carrying on a business. it is deductible under s.8-1.  this is general rule. However, when there is a conflict between a general rule and a specific rule, the specific rule prevails.

In your question, there is a factual uncertainty, which does not clarify whether the business is a PSI or not, and whether PSI tests are met. and what type of work performed by the associate.

For PSI business, the specific rule Div85 ITAA1997 prevents wages made to associates from being deductible when the work done is a non-principal work.

Furthermore, by paying a wage 30K, the business also need to meet the obligation of paying super guarantee, and withholding tax.

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发表于 2012-10-13 18:57 |显示全部楼层
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3IX37 发表于 2012-10-13 17:53
Wage is an expenses necessarily incurred for carrying on a business. it is deductible under s.8-1. ...

发工资的话,养老金就要额外付出去了,你的WORK COVER也会增加,可能还会有PAYROLL TAX.

楼主还是别在这里问了,去请会计咨询吧。
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发表于 2012-10-13 19:00 |显示全部楼层
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楼主,你要根据你的行业,规模,还有具体经营情况来决定。

如果你需要一个会计周末帮你弄下的话,短信我。

但是我每周只有周日下午有空。

发表于 2012-10-13 19:30 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 wanghui1015 于 2012-10-13 18:33 编辑
figod2012 发表于 2012-10-13 17:57
发工资的话,养老金就要额外付出去了,你的WORK COVER也会增加,可能还会有PAYROLL TAX.

楼主还是别在这 ...


楼主的那种情况,payroll tax显然不可能出现,不用把问题复杂化吧。
养老金也是付给自己的,而且不挣钱的主妇,还可以gov co-contribution。
到是需要注意的是centerlink的一些福利是否会受影响。

mobile accountant对客户来说,风险大于收益,除非是熟人。
CA and CPA qualified accountant
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发表于 2012-10-13 19:32 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 18:30
楼主的那种情况,payroll tax不太可能出现,不用把问题复杂化。

就那么一说。

因为楼主啥也没提供,就在这打算省税。

发表于 2012-10-13 19:36 |显示全部楼层
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3IX37 发表于 2012-10-13 17:53
Wage is an expenses necessarily incurred for carrying on a business. it is deductible under s.8-1. ...

withholding tax和养老金当然都要付,30000才上多少税?都说了个人退税都能退回来。

PSI的问题,只要楼主的公司不是给一家公司打工就可以避免,每必要把简单的问题复杂化。
CA and CPA qualified accountant
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发表于 2012-10-13 19:40 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 18:36
withholding tax和养老金当然都要付,30000才上多少税?都说了个人退税都能退回来。

PSI的问题,只要楼 ...

30000多也有不少税了。全退是不太可能的,2万可能可以全退。3万多LOW INCOME REBATE都没有1500了。

其实把钱拿出来是一个问题,然后合理避税是另外一个问题实在是太大。

还是让楼主说下自己是什么行业再说吧。



发表于 2012-10-13 19:41 |显示全部楼层
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figod2012 发表于 2012-10-13 18:32
就那么一说。

因为楼主啥也没提供,就在这打算省税。

我觉得做小生意的都不用易,而且家人也会参与经营,做饭照顾孩子也算贡献,最烦的就是拿发条来说事。
ATO问的话就说做货单和简单的记账,withholding tax和super都上,ATO还能和SME较真不成。

我的一个鬼子客户给老婆小三发工资避税,也没看我老板说不行的。


CA and CPA qualified accountant
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发表于 2012-10-13 19:44 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 19:36
withholding tax和养老金当然都要付,30000才上多少税?都说了个人退税都能退回来。

PSI的问题,只要楼 ...

PSI的问题, 假设, 如果我有一个公司, 公司有一个店, DIRECTOR给另外一个公司打工, 人工也是通过公司ABN来出, 简单来说, 公司里面有一个人是专门给一个公司打工, 但是公司也有其他收入, 这样可以吗?
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发表于 2012-10-13 19:44 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 18:41
我觉得做小生意的都不用易,而且家人也会参与经营,做饭照顾孩子也算贡献,最烦的就是拿发条来说事。
ATO ...

发工资当然行啊,但是也要找本身就没打税工作的人发工资啊。

那么激动干嘛。

虽然这个就是税号欺诈,但是可行性蛮高的。

等楼主来了。

发表于 2012-10-13 19:46 |显示全部楼层
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figod2012 发表于 2012-10-13 18:40
30000多也有不少税了。全退是不太可能的,2万可能可以全退。3万多LOW INCOME REBATE都没有1500了。

其实 ...

降到445了,30000就是抛砖引玉。
CA and CPA qualified accountant
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发表于 2012-10-13 19:48 |显示全部楼层
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悉尼计程车 发表于 2012-10-13 18:44
PSI的问题, 假设, 如果我有一个公司, 公司有一个店, DIRECTOR给另外一个公司打工, 人工也是通过公司 ...

当然可以

发表于 2012-10-13 19:56 |显示全部楼层
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學習

发表于 2012-10-13 20:10 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 18:46
降到445了,30000就是抛砖引玉。

I was just about to say where you get the $30k from.

and by the way, are you sure about the super co-contribution? what is the eligibility requirements for gov co-contribution? and what is the definition for voluntary self contribution?

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发表于 2012-10-13 20:12 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 3IX37 于 2012-10-13 19:14 编辑
wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 18:36
withholding tax和养老金当然都要付,30000才上多少税?都说了个人退税都能退回来。

PSI的问题,只要楼 ...


is the 80% test the end of PSI tests? are you sure about that? what about the other tests?

发表于 2012-10-13 23:33 |显示全部楼层
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首先要搞清楚company做的是什么. 要搞清楚公司是否过PSI. 如果不过PSI 调整收入的灵活性方面有很大限制. 就只能考虑其他方法了. 过的话做起来当然就很方便
联系方式
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=622814

发表于 2012-10-13 23:54 |显示全部楼层
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3IX37 发表于 2012-10-13 19:12
is the 80% test the end of PSI tests? are you sure about that? what about the other tests?

我不想给楼主增加额外的负担,回复的内容抛砖引玉,根据楼主的情况进行了合适的假设。

此回复,只针对你问的问题。

先做The results test,我估计楼主公司的情况直接就能pass,根本不涉及PSI,就更扯不出80% Rule。
CA and CPA qualified accountant

发表于 2012-10-14 09:31 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 22:54
我不想给楼主增加额外的负担,回复的内容抛砖引玉,根据楼主的情况进行了合适的假设。

此回复,只针对你 ...

Result test 是PSI 的第一个test 过的话就不做20/80. 但是这都是PSI的范畴
看看你的CLP 应该很清楚的
联系方式
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=622814

发表于 2012-10-14 09:58 |显示全部楼层
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悉尼计程车 发表于 2012-10-13 19:44
PSI的问题, 假设, 如果我有一个公司, 公司有一个店, DIRECTOR给另外一个公司打工, 人工也是通过公司 ...

好像还是要分开算的,个人打工的部分要算为Psi
成功就是可以随心所欲的做些傻事
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发表于 2012-10-14 10:20 |显示全部楼层
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可以分钱啊,
以前不是abn吗,
那么现在还abn,
director给公司开tax invoice分钱,
最后director自己abn报税,
钱不能死在公司账户里啊~

发表于 2012-10-14 10:38 |显示全部楼层
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学习, 不过有些绕。

发表于 2012-10-14 22:12 |显示全部楼层
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wanghui1015 发表于 2012-10-13 22:54
我不想给楼主增加额外的负担,回复的内容抛砖引玉,根据楼主的情况进行了合适的假设。

此回复,只针对你 ...

You actually are right.

PSI is only one assumption, and that is the one assumption can't be overlooked. And if the result tests are satisfied, PSI rule does not apply. And the 80% test and other tests only need to be satisfied once result test is failed. However, the result test is actually an alll-test as there are 3 tests for the result test, and they need to be all satisfied to pass the result test.
Not all, but there are a quite amount of people would fail one of those 3 tests and be kept in PSI regime. (ATO has all those tests for some reasons) :)

At the end of the day,  you are right that LZ would be much better off if PSI does not apply. and This would really depends on all the facts. :)

Cheers & thanks for your response :)

发表于 2012-10-14 22:16 |显示全部楼层
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豆包妈 发表于 2012-10-14 10:20
可以分钱啊,
以前不是abn吗,
那么现在还abn,


乱出招。 Director 不能以ABN 形式给自己的公司出invoice 的。  -- 一个非会计对小白的警告

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