Capital lost for off-the-plan

jshubo

Need some expert advice on this. Someone bought an off-the-plan property at $400k for example, but sell it for $300k before settlement, so he lost $100k. The questions are:

(1)Since he re-sell this before settlement, he doesn't pay stamp duty so there is no sale record in the government system for the $400k, can he still claim $100k as capital lost in his tax return?

(2)If so, I heard he can carry forward the $100k as capital lost to future year, but does anyone know whether $100k has reach the maximum amount of capital lost people can carry forward?

Many thanks

winover

Actually,...you are transferring a right...
so you can claim capital loss but...someone have to claim capital gain as well.
you need formal contract...and prove the loss.
but loss 10k on the off plan is a bit impossible...as you only paid 10% deposit...so what you can loss it the 10% deposit for purchasing the right.
Unless you paid others to cancel the responsibility for settlement. That one is also a capital loss, but definitely will be audited by ATO. The same thing, your counter party will need to claim capital gain in the future as well.

财神爷

1，可以。保留好记录
2，自己记着。或者tax agent的软件里面会给你记着。

jshubo

Let's assume selling another property(hold for more than 12 months) in the same financial year and the capital gain is 200k, and the capital lost for the off-the-plan is 100k, which of the following is correct?

(1)The amount need to pay for capital gain tax is (200k-100k) * 50% = 50k
(2)The amount need to pay for capital gain tax is 200k*50% - 100k = 0

雪梨姐姐

jshubo 发表于 2016-8-24 11:03
Let's assume selling another property(hold for more than 12 months) in the same financial year and  ...

1 is right

glk47

雪梨姐姐 发表于 2016-8-24 11:56
1 is right

你确定1的算法正确么？我觉得1不合理啊。
假定同年还卖了一套房子，capital gain = 150K。但是这套房子持有不到一年。

如果按照1的算法就是 (200K+150K-100K)/2=125K ，但这是不合理的因为一套房子持有一年以上，另一套不到一年，不能一起算。
按照2的算法貌似合理一点 200K/2+150K-100K = 75K。这样算两套房子就区别对待了，貌似合理一点。

雪梨姐姐

glk47 发表于 2016-8-28 11:35
你确定1的算法正确么？我觉得1不合理啊。
假定同年还卖了一套房子，capital gain = 150K。但是这套房子持 ...

不到一年的房子 没有DISCOUNT

CAPITAL GAIN 不是加在一起这么算的

先要低LOSS 然后再DISCOUNT

glk47

雪梨姐姐 发表于 2016-8-31 16:30
不到一年的房子 没有DISCOUNT

CAPITAL GAIN 不是加在一起这么算的

我知道没到一年没有discount。事实上，我想说的就是这个。

假设某人在同一个年度卖了两套房子各盈利200K，一套超过1年，享有discount，一套不到1年，没有discount。所以应该先discount在加，capital gain=200/2+200=300K，不是么？如果先加在discount，就会变成capital gain=（200+200）/2 =200K了，应该不对啊。

在假设该人前一个会计年度卖房子投资损失100K，carry over到今年抵税。同样的原理，应该先discount在加减不是吗？200/2+200-100=200K。如果先抵在discount，就变成(200+200-100)/2=250K，应该不对啊。

如果先抵loss在discount，那这100K的lost到底抵那个房产的gain呢？是抵超过1年那套，还是不超过一年那套呢？

liu263

glk47 发表于 2016-8-31 18:35
我知道没到一年没有discount。事实上，我想说的就是这个。

假设某人在同一个年度卖了两套房子各盈利200K ...

diwcount是cqpital gain的diacount。因此要算过capital gain以后才discount。

glk47

liu263 发表于 2016-8-31 18:46
diwcount是cqpital gain的diacount。因此要算过capital gain以后才discount。

我说的是capital gain呀。我举的例子里的数字都是说capital gain

雪梨姐姐

glk47 发表于 2016-8-31 18:35
我知道没到一年没有discount。事实上，我想说的就是这个。

假设某人在同一个年度卖了两套房子各盈利200K ...

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/c ... -your-capital-gain/

FYI

glk47

雪梨姐姐 发表于 2016-9-1 00:05
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/capital-gains-tax/working-out-your-capital-gain-or-loss/working-ou ...

Thanks

你说的对。ato说：

Subtract the cost base from the capital proceeds, deduct any capital losses, then reduce by the relevant discount percentage


但ato也说：You must offset your capital losses against your capital gains in the order in which you made them. You can't choose not to offset capital losses against capital gains if you have them, but you can choose which capital gains to deduct your losses from.

所以计算如下：

>>>假设某人在同一个年度卖了两套房子各盈利200K，一套超过1年，享有discount，一套不到1年，没有discount。上一年有capital loss 100k 可以carry over到今年


所以我可以选择offset没有discount的那套房子对我有利。那么 房1有discount：200/2=100, 房2无discount但可以offset loss：(200-100)=100。总共200k的gain是吧

雪梨姐姐

glk47 发表于 2016-9-1 09:13
Thanks

你说的对。ato说：

你看一下 下面有一条具体说明less than 12 months 的那个rule.有具体举例的。

雪梨姐姐

glk47 发表于 2016-9-1 09:13
Thanks

你说的对。ato说：

please see Other methods for less than 12 months assets

glk47

雪梨姐姐 发表于 2016-9-1 09:44
please see Other methods for less than 12 months assets

我找不到合适的例子

在我给的例子里，分别有三个cgt event。一个有discount(discount method)，一个没discount（other method），一个loss。ato网站上只有单个的例子。

我觉得我说的没错：

https://www.ato.gov.au/uploadedF ... -worksheet-2016.pdf

Part 2 和 part 3都有这样的comment:
When applying capital losses against capital gains from the three different methods, they can be applied in the order of your choice that gives the best result.

所以我会用loss先去offset没有discount的capital gain。

Part 4 计算discount. 可以最大限度利用discount

所以在我的例子：

>>>假设某人在同一个年度卖了两套房子各盈利200K，一套超过1年，享有discount，一套不到1年，没有discount。上一年有capital loss 100k 可以carry over到今年

所以我可以选择offset没有discount的那套房子对我有利。那么 房1有discount：200/2=100, 房2无discount但可以offset loss：(200-100)=100。总共200k的gain是吧


如果雪梨姐姐， 请给出你的算法。

雪梨姐姐

应该是这样的 offerset 可以选择 你上面的选择应该是最优化了