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[信息讨论] 原来subprime远远比想象的要严重 [复制链接]

退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-7-25 17:24 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 黑山老妖 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 黑山老妖 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
John Stewart and Michael Chaney’s decision to go straight to 90 per cent provisioning on National Australia Bank’s portfolio of US residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS) is a shocking event that will reverberate around the world.

The CEO and chairman of NAB will live with the consequences of their decision as it affects their own bank, but so will every other banker on the planet.

NAB’s exposure to the US property market through the CDOs held in its conduits is relatively small – $1.2 billion worth of structured finance assets. The money is in 10 collateralised debt obligations (CDOs) in two conduits (off balance sheet vehicles to which NAB provides “liquidity”).

Leaving aside the dodgy nature of the vehicles, the assets themselves were all rated AAA, which technically means a one in 10,000 chance of default.

Stewart, Chaney and the NAB risk committee have now assessed the prospect of loss at 90 per cent, that is a 9,000 in 10,000 chance of default. In other words, the securities have turned out to be far worse than junk.

To be specific, the 10 CDOs consist of two “super senior” strips and eight AAA senior strips. The NAB brains trust has now determined, on a worst case basis, that it will recover half of the super senior CDOs and none of the AAA senior debt.

To repeat: NAB is now expecting 100 per cent loss on $900 million worth of AAA rated debt securities.

This is based on the information revealed this morning by John Stewart – namely, that recoveries on US residential foreclosures is now down to 45 per cent of the mortgage value.

Just consider that: US lenders, when they take possession of homes in foreclosure, are recovering less than half of the mortgage.

I have been reading voraciously on the subject, and that is the first time I have seen any bank disclosing that.

The implication of that for the US banking system is catastrophic.

This little Aussie bank down under has gone too far, they’ll be saying on Wall Street. They’re wearing the full hair-shirt and suffering the bed of nails all at once, only because they can – they have the capital to do it.

John Stewart said this morning that he didn’t want to drip feed the provisions out over several years as the truth about the situation in the US unfolds; far better, he says, to take it all now and move on.

But there is a big problem with that approach: if other banks are forced to do it, especially the big US banks, the economic impact will be swift and drastic. The $4.5 billion that NAB holds in other securities through its off-balance sheet conduits, will also be hit.

But Stewart and Chaney have pulled the pin out of a grenade; there’s no going back now.

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Happy Wife = Happy Life
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发表于 2008-7-25 18:05 |显示全部楼层
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谢谢

发表于 2008-7-25 18:13 |显示全部楼层
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nab有倒闭的危险吗?

发表于 2008-7-25 18:15 |显示全部楼层
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倒闭是不太可能的。

发表于 2008-7-25 18:55 |显示全部楼层
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NAB's ugly surprise
Email Print Normal font Large font 'If Suncorp's share price falls too far, QBE will at least consider the prospect of having a crack.' Related Coverage
NAB shares slump on writedowns
Analysts fear more NAB calamities
Charts NAB share price
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July 25, 2008 - 4:26PM

Thank goodness for the word ''direct''.

Like many of his counterparts, National Australia Bank chief John Stewart has been keen to point out since the credit market seized up a year ago that the bank had no "direct'' exposure to subprime.

Whoops.  A cool $830 million provision for CDO exposures bobs out of the blue.

CDOs are collateralised debt obligations, or thousands of loans bundled together and split into millions of securities so no one can quite value them by splitting them all apart.

They were supposed to be a nice robust security - having gained the ratings blessing of S&P and Moody's in return for a fee - which you could sell because the diversity of many debts supposedly offset the risk of holding specific debts.

Wrong, now no one wants to buy them and because they are not trading, few have seen fit to write them off yet.

As a consequence, local councils all around the country who were sold CDOs by investment banks for their lovely yield, their safety and their credit rating are now sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars of dud securities.

The councils are loath to write them off because the local investment manager is naturally reluctant to have a multi-million dollar loss in his portfolio.

NAB biting the bullet, therefore, triggered much anxiety. For NAB, the latest confession brings the bank's CDO provisions to $1.01 billion. It will dent the bottom line by about $450 million.

What next?

The critical question is, what else is out there?

When subprime first bit, the estimated losses for the global banking system were put at $US400 billion ($418 billion). By the end of last year it was touted at $US800 billion and by last month a US research firm Bridgewater Associates was saying $US1.6 trillion.

Pinning the tail on this subprime donkey is an exercise in high speculation but also, it seems, is picking even the exposures of the local banks. One, they don't want to tell us in one go. Two, they might not know what is good and bad themselves.

Citigroup banking research reckons ANZ and NAB are the leading candidates. ANZ heads the list with a $23 billion exposure to credit default swaps (CDS) and NAB with its conduits (off-balance-sheet dumping grounds for things you can't sell).

Not strictly subprime, CDS (as opposed to CDOs) are corporate debt insurance derivatives. There is a large amorphous market for these things, believed by some to be an accident waiting to happen as no one seems to have bothered making specific reserves for CDS unlike regular insurance markets.



According to Citigroup, Westpac and CBA are ''well down the risk'' curve on this fancy derivative risk. While neither has disclosed adequately on its credit issues, both have a ''smaller CDS counterparty risk'' estimated at $3 billion for CBA and $9 billion for Westpac. Their conduit lines are also smaller at an estimated $3 billion and $7 billion.

Watch out for other acronyms such as SIV (structured investment vehicles) and ABS (asset-backed securities). They are also dangerous.  

Are the banks a buy?

The most common stockbroker ''buy'' cry over the past few months has been ''buy the major banks, they're cheap''. This call finally came right in the past couple of weeks as Wall Street financials recovered and a brief respite came in the cavalcade of bad news.

If you look at the market peak and rack up bank price/earnings ratios against what they were, this looks a good call.

On UBS numbers ANZ is trading on a forecast PER for 2009 of 9.1, NAB on 10.2, CBA 12.2, Westpac 11 and St George, which is under offer from Westpac, is on 12.2.

ANZ, therefore, is the cheapest and CBA the most expensive. Indeed the stock prices and therefore PEs are well down on the 14-times earnings and so forth which marked the bullmarket.

Choice multiples

Two things need to be considered here. One, earnings multiples are but one valuation metric.

On an net tangible assets basis, for example, the Aussie banks are trading way above their UK counterparts. By world standards, the local banking cartel is strong but it is not impregnable to large problem losses as this latest NAB confession would attest.

There will be much more of this to come.

Two, PEs are lower and they stay lower during bear markets and recessions. If we are even half a chance of a recession in this country, and the recent rally is merely a dead cat bounce, then we can start getting used to lower PEs for a while. This will likely be the case given markets inevitably swing too far in either direction.

Deutsche Bank research says three observations can be drawn from past recessions:
1) During all recessions the market's trailing P/E dropped to single digits (versus 13.2-times currently for 2008)
2) the market's trailing dividend yield bottomed at, on average, 4% during the recessions (versus 4.6% currently), and 3) company ROEs (returns on equity) dropped significantly the longer the recessions lasted.

All of these observations suggest to us that if a recession eventuates in Australia, the equity market may come under further downward pressure.

Looking at the rash of downgrades, the present fall in earnings mirrors a typical recession in company earnings. It's global.

Since recessions usually endure for 25 months on average and earnings fall in tandem by 25% there seems little cause for optimism.

Bad boy syndrome

While today's admission from the NAB throws the light on problem derivatives, and the spectre of a recession and consequent job losses looms as a problem for big bank mortgage books, the ''bad boys'' exposures also lingers.

The broking industry has coined a new phrase for the likes of Allco, Centro, ABC Learning and MFS which blew up in the first quarter of this year. They are the ''bad boys''.

At this point in the cycle, it is the bad boys who account for most of the significant problem exposures. As UBS notes today, though, the market is not seeing a ``systemic deterioration in credit quality'' -- at least, not yet.

And these bad boys are all being worked out, refinanced or extended.

In the wake of the 1987 crash and market fallout in 1989 which saw Bond Corp, Christopher Skase's Quintex, Adsteam and others crash into the warm embrace of the insolvency practitioners - and stay there for years - this time around the banks have sensibly opted to keep bad boys out of liquidation.

See the apparent generosity in terms and extensions to the bad boys, Macquarie Countrywide and other REITS, and recently Babcock & Brown.

The rationale is clearly this: the banks have seen the last of the Eighties wind-ups finally grind through the courts in the past two years (Bond Corp). The liquidators and lawyers made literally a billion dollars in fees out of these insolvencies.

Banks move first

This time around the banks have decided to employ the likes of Ferrier Hodgson, Korda Mentha and Deloitte themselves.

Get them in there, get them working hard, don't let them own the problem, own them, contain the costs, save ourselves a swag of massive writedowns.

Good idea. Over time however this will soak up substantial management time. It will cost the banks...but not as much.

This rump of bad boys then - which are already losing cashflow by bank mandates to sell off assets and raise cash to pay down debt - will battle on , their share prices in most cases will never recover to former levels.


There will, however, be many trading opportunities for the market and eventually some of the surviving bad boys may once again tap the market for equity.

The final, and most sexy focus of note for the banks will be corporate activity.

Four pillar protection

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has indicated the Four Pillars policy is here to stay, Westpac is well down the track to swallowing St George, ANZ is casting about for acquisitions in Asia having hired new boss Mike Smith especially to get on that job, CBA is chasing ABN Amro and NAB ... NAB's M&A division have always got AMP on the radar.

Whether they move or not - and today's confessions don't exactly help the scrip component of any potential bid - the AMP remains vulnerable to predators whenever the stock price begins to look too bombed out below the $6.50 level.

On a PE of 14ish, it's not cheap in light of its sensitivity to markets, but given its wide distribution it does boast terrific strategic value.

NAB recognises this, as does the CBA, and has already made two approaches to the AMP board in recent years. Both were spurned.

Meanwhile, the second tier banks continue to struggle as they don't enjoy the access to cheap funding from large depositor bases as do the majors.

St George, with its onerous cost of wholesale funding, has been rescued from embarrassment or worse by a friendly bid from Westpac and can ''hollow-log it'' through its final stand-alone profit result for June.

Suncorp, AMP in play?

The other big one, Queensland bancassurance group Suncorp, has problems in its loan book and its aggressive lending practices may expose it to bad debts - particularly to high-risk Queensland property developers.

As an insurer, too, it can juggle its results for the full year. Suncorp rejected talk this week that it had put a lid on all commercial lending. It also denied there would be jobs cuts. We had heard 1,500 jobs would go in a restructuring announcement in the next two months.

Suncorp will get hit by having to ''mark to market'' investment losses for June but it may be able to use its reserves to make the headline figures look shiny.

For one, it can reduce its prudential margin by a couple of points to raise up to a couple of hundred million dollars in extra cash. It can also use acquisition reserves from its $7.9 billion buy of insurance group Promina at the top of the market.

Like St George, however, Suncorp's its funding costs are under pressure and a spokesman this week conceded the company was ''moderating'' its lending.

Chief John Mulcahy paid a high price for Promina at the top of the market but he is yet to moderate his earnings guidance or concede writedowns.

There is an outside chance that Frank O'Halloran at QBE, having been spurned by the board of IAG in his recent advances, could turn his attention to Suncorp.

How can Suncorp makes sense of a general insurance business in the former Promina which does not need a branch network.

You can be sure that if Suncorp's share price falls too far that QBE would at least consider the prospect of having a crack and spinning off the bank.

Westpac was sniffing around the Queensland company when it was $20 a share but opted for a move on St George instead.

mwest@theage.com.au
终于自立门户了,咨询贷款问题请站内短信

发表于 2008-7-25 19:35 |显示全部楼层
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终于捂不住了,呵。
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退役斑竹

发表于 2008-7-25 19:59 |显示全部楼层
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好大一只熊。

记得去年还讨论过sub prime已经过去多少,还乐观的认为已经过去50%。 想象那时候我真的好傻好天真啊!

发表于 2008-7-25 20:38 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 吃喝拉撒睡 于 25/7/2008 19:59 发表
好大一只熊。

记得去年还讨论过sub prime已经过去多少,还乐观的认为已经过去50%。 想象那时候我真的好傻好天真啊!

对应的今天是很红很暴力
OVO用电送$120链接:www.ovoenergy.com.au/refer/han1149

发表于 2008-7-25 20:48 |显示全部楼层
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看到了, 接下来, 还有谁?

发表于 2008-7-25 21:01 |显示全部楼层
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昨天还风平浪静,今天就乌云密布了,我的贷款机构今天又提高了利息!
这日子可真紧啊!

谢谢老妖版的分析!

发表于 2008-7-25 21:22 |显示全部楼层
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真可怕,澳洲哪家银行最可靠呢?
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发表于 2008-7-25 21:25 |显示全部楼层
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which one is it?

退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-7-25 21:53 |显示全部楼层
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澳洲4大银行应该不会倒,如果真的倒了国家会顶着。

发表于 2008-7-25 22:30 |显示全部楼层
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澳洲经济学家重视很乐观。但是在全球经济一体化及美国老大的影响下,我觉得这纯粹就是“意淫”。

退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-7-25 22:34 |显示全部楼层
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"This" was the effective destruction of $1.011 billion of the bank's capital courtesy of the losses still emanating – and getting worse – from the US mortgage market. To put that in perspective, $1 billion is equal to 3% or so of the bank's core capital of $31 billion as of March 2008 and about a third of the cash required to pay the bank's dividend.
Happy Wife = Happy Life

退役斑竹

发表于 2008-7-26 06:41 |显示全部楼层
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去年可能是8月份看4Corner关于Subprime的节目,其中有一个问题,问Subprime什么时候结束?有个专家是这样回答的:No we have not seem the worst of subprimes, far from it, we are only at the beginning. If you like, we are at first quarter game of American football game, there are still 3 more quarters to go. We have not seem the worst yet.

真得给他说的应验了,首先前面几轮Massive Write-off CBS by some the biggest investment banks in the world, Bear Sterns need bail out, USA has cut rates to as low as 2% to stimulate econmy despite the rest of world facing strong inflations, Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae on brink of insolvency... Now NAB leads potential another round of write-offs of CBS (as much as 90%)...

The worst is not over yet.

[ 本帖最后由 Artcore 于 2008-7-26 06:50 编辑 ]
做人要厚道,看贴要加分.
澳洲创业故事系列
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发表于 2008-7-26 09:05 |显示全部楼层
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haha.............. whoever touched CDOs is gone theses days. That's why CBA quickly announced to the market that their conduits have nothing to do with CDOs.

退役斑竹 2007 年度奖章获得者 2008年度奖章获得者 特殊贡献奖章 参与宝库编辑功臣

发表于 2008-7-26 11:28 |显示全部楼层
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原帖由 西关少爷 于 26/7/2008 09:05 发表
haha.............. whoever touched CDOs is gone theses days. That's why CBA quickly announced to the market that their conduits have nothing to do with CDOs.


What about ANZ and WBC? What are their exposures? Direct or indirect...
Happy Wife = Happy Life

发表于 2008-7-26 11:36 |显示全部楼层
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in fact, everyone had some exposures to CDOs prior to the Credit Crunch as they were so hot at the time. Since then,  some got rid of them quickly and some were too slow or didn't have choice.

退役斑竹

发表于 2008-7-26 12:28 |显示全部楼层
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NAB还是没能摆脱多年前在欧洲市场巨亏的阴影,事隔多年, 再度把自己陷入危机。

发表于 2008-7-26 23:51 |显示全部楼层
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生命的美好是因为一年有四季.

冬季是必不可少的一部分.
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发表于 2008-7-28 16:24 |显示全部楼层
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路过……

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