CGT問題

yw0830

一母親2009年去世了，留下三個 Apartments，根据遺囑，分別分給三個孩子。三個 apartments 都在2003年買的，現在其中一孩決定要賣出他所得的 apartment，如何算CGT？

這三個 apartments，在母親生前都是出租房。另外問孩子們可有任何CGT問題當房子由母親名字轉入孩子名下？

cyvs

Have a read of this..  Though I would thought the son/daughter would know about it already when their mother passed away in 2009?

http://www.ato.gov.au/individual ... m&page=5&H5

JohnnySu

For the child that is selling, the sale is a CGT Event and therefore there will be CGT . The cost base used for calculation is the mother's cost base.

For the other two children who are holding on to the properties, CGT is only calculated when they sell in the future.

yw0830

taxbreak 发表于 2013-2-3 11:09
For the child that is selling, the sale is a CGT Event and therefore there will be CGT . The cost ba ...

現有一個問題，當孩子們承繼母親留下的物業時，都是non-tax residents. 母親去世時也是non-tax resident.

這CGT在2009年轉名時該怎麼算？

根據2樓所給ATO的連接說：

Exceptions to this rule

A capital gain or capital loss is not disregarded if a post-CGT asset owned at the time of death passes from the deceased to a tax-advantaged entity or to a foreign resident. In these cases, a CGT event is taken to have happened in relation to the asset just before the person died. The CGT event will result in:

a capital gain if the market value of the asset on the day the person died was more than the cost base of the asset, or
a capital loss if the market value was less than the asset's reduced cost base.
These capital gains and losses should be taken into account in the deceased person's 'date of death return' (the tax return for the period from the start of the income year to the date of the person's death).

However, any capital gain or capital loss from a testamentary gift of property can be disregarded if the gift is made:

under the Cultural Bequests Program (which applies to certain gifts of property - not land or buildings - to a library, museum or art gallery) or
to a deductible gift recipient and the gift would have been income tax deductible if it had not been a testamentary gift.
The condition that testamentary gifts of property must be valued at greater than $5,000 before the CGT exemption applies does not apply to gifts made on or after 1 July 2005.

那即是說首先要成立一個Deceased Estate Trust，然後把房子按 market value at the date of mother's death 轉名給三個孩子名下。Capital gains或Capital losses算在Deceased Estate Trust名下，如果是capital losses，不能distributed out to kids，孩子不可能在將來用這些capital losses來offset他們的其他capital gains。

如果是 capital gains，那孩子們就要納 capital gains tax 了。

這一家大小由2005年起都沒有咨詢或聘請委任任何 tax agents，今年被稅局一次過追瘦。

yw0830

cyvs 发表于 2013-2-3 08:42
Have a read of this..  Though I would thought the son/daughter would know about it already when thei ...

請看四樓問題。

cyvs

yw0830 发表于 2013-2-3 21:32
請看四樓問題。

From what I can understand, it was saying that capital gains should have been calculated and paid for in the final tax return of the deceased estate.  This is a very complicated issue, especially when it involves non-resident.  Sorry that I can't help you much in this.  You need to talk to an accountant/lawyer that is specialised in this area.

yw0830

cyvs 发表于 2013-2-3 21:56
From what I can understand, it was saying that capital gains should have been calculated and paid  ...

現在再看真一點原文，我的想法與你一樣，認為capital gains or losses應算在死者的 final tax return.

問題是母親是在2009年四月去世，房子是在2009年八月在法庭令下轉名。如果CGT Event 按market value of date of death來算，會包括在母親的final tax return。

如果CGT Event 按2009年八月在法庭令下轉名, 那則是的estate trust名下。

不過無論算在那名下，ATO 得到的都是一樣的結果。最終還是羊毛出在羊身上，孩子們要從他們繼承的遺產中，可能要撥出一筆錢交稅。

无知的80后

3个房子，可惜啊，有trust 就一分钱不出了.。

cyvs

yw0830 发表于 2013-2-3 22:14
現在再看真一點原文，我的想法與你一樣，認為capital gains or losses應算在死者的 final tax return.
...

对啊。在AT0观点来说那三间房子在2009年时应该要交CGT。如果是应该算在死者的final tax return, 那ATO是不是应该向那estate trustee 追讨? 那律师也太差了吧!怎么沒弄好呢?
如果trustee 不是其中一个孩子，那是不是可以和ATO说現在不是你的问题?他们应该去找estate trustee 讨？因为如果遗产还没有分下来，那孩子如果要拿的话就必须先出钱交税(除非estate 有足够的现金交税，不然就是卖物业来还税了)。既然遗产都分了，Estate 欠债应该不是你们现在来还的吧?
问下律师 ATO 可不可以伸请拿回estate 的产业?如果可以的话那我还会去还税，但会商量不用付penalty.因为你自愿交钱会省了他们很多工作和费用。如果他们不能追回estate 产业，那就可能可以考虑那税务的问题。

只是我的想法，沒有任何根据的，建议和律师谈。建议不要问当初处理遗产的律师。因为可能有conflict of interest.

yw0830

无知的80后 发表于 2013-2-3 22:16
3个房子，可惜啊，有trust 就一分钱不出了.。

不明白妳想說什麼？

YarraRiver

等高人解释

JohnnySu

yw0830 发表于 2013-2-3 20:13
現有一個問題，當孩子們承繼母親留下的物業時，都是non-tax residents. 母親去世時也是non-tax resident. ...

yw0830 发表于 2013-2-3 20:13
現有一個問題，當孩子們承繼母親留下的物業時，都是non-tax residents. 母親去世時也是non-tax resident. ...

The ATO statement you quoted only applies to assets that are not taxable on the hands of non-residents. e.g. shares.
When these assets exit the tax system CGT is payable.

Real properties are "Taxable Australian Properties" therefore the non-resident children are still within the tax system when the properties were passed onto them.  When inherited the properties the children inherited the cost base along with them. These will be used to calculate the CGT when they sell. Their residency status only makes a difference in terms of a higher tax rate and their not being  entitled to the 50% CGT discount.

jeff_lawsons

taxbreak 发表于 2013-2-4 10:07
The ATO statement you quoted only applies to assets that are not taxable on the hands of non-res ...

jeff_lawsons

yw0830 发表于 2013-2-3 21:14
現在再看真一點原文，我的想法與你一樣，認為capital gains or losses應算在死者的 final tax return.
...

根据遺囑，分別分給三個孩子。現在其中一孩決定要賣出他所得的 apartment，hence  he has vested and indefeasible interest in the property and  is presently entitled to any income and capiral gains from this property.


If the administrator of the deceased estate sold the porperty, although the beneficiary is presently entitled to this property, the capital gain will be taxed at trustee's hand because he is non- resident.

If the administrator of the deceased estate passed the porperty to him,and he sold it later, then he is liable for capital gains tax because the property is a TAP.

The cost base of the property is the cost base when his Mum bought it. The date of purchase shall be the date for the court order. If he has hold the property for more than 12 months from the date of court order, then he is able to apply 50% CGT discount.  (Non-resident may not able to apply 50% CGT discount from after 8 May 2012, he may need to apportion the gain)