个人报税和unit trust的疑问？

hgaox

个人有工作，同时又合伙和朋友有合资的unit trust，但是只是合资买了投资房，还没有推倒重建。个人报税的时候需要报这个unit trust吗？如果不报，将来新房建成，需要用现在的这个unit trust的负收入抵税，会有问题吗？谢谢。不报的原因是，个人不知道怎么报这个trust。etax对我来说太复杂了。感谢。

thomas-wang

You need to do the Unit Trust tax return first, to work out if there's any distribution payable to you.

JohnnySu

thomas-wang 发表于 2012-9-4 09:36
You need to do the Unit Trust tax return first, to work out if there's any distribution payable to y ...

Correct.
The unit trust may or may not have made a profit.
If it made a profit. The profit has to be distributed to the unit holders . The unit holders then have to report this income on their personal tax returns.

hgaox

谢谢楼上二位

可是我的unit trust应该是负收入吧？房租少于每月还给银行的贷款？那怎么报税，将来我想用现在的负收入抵掉应付的税收？

kevin_m

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 11:56
谢谢楼上二位

可是我的unit trust应该是负收入吧？房租少于每月还给银行的贷款？那怎么报税，将来我想用现 ...

And loss can not be distributed and should be carry forward deducting future profit

but you still need to do the Unit Trust tax return to work out how much loss

JohnnySu

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 11:56
谢谢楼上二位

可是我的unit trust应该是负收入吧？房租少于每月还给银行的贷款？那怎么报税，将来我想用现 ...

If you were expecting a loss I wonder why you put the property in trust in the first place. It would be much better to put it under the individuals so that the loss can be utilised.

LENNY_DONG

taxbreak 发表于 2012-9-4 13:01
If you were expecting a loss I wonder why you put the property in trust in the first place. It wou ...

Long term benefit as capital gain can be split in the future

hgaox

taxbreak 发表于 2012-9-4 13:01
If you were expecting a loss I wonder why you put the property in trust in the first place. It wou ...

合伙买房，不能放到个人名下。

hgaox

STS-TAX 发表于 2012-9-4 13:03
Long term benefit as capital gain can be split in the future

如果今年不报unit trust的收入，以后再报可以抵掉部分的税吗？谢谢

JohnnySu

STS-TAX 发表于 2012-9-4 13:03
Long term benefit as capital gain can be split in the future

CGT from properties owned by Unit trusts are shared the same way as owned in joint individual names as Unit trusts do not have the discretion to distribute income. The only benefit I can think of is asset protection but in terms of tax it is worse off at least for now.

JohnnySu

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 13:08
合伙买房，不能放到个人名下。

Yes you could have it under Mr A+ MrsB but it doesnt matter now. it can not be changed.

JohnnySu

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 13:09
如果今年不报unit trust的收入，以后再报可以抵掉部分的税吗？谢谢

You need to report a loss in the tax return to carried that forward to be used in future years.

LENNY_DONG

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 13:08
合伙买房，不能放到个人名下。

Unit holder is family trust or individual?

LENNY_DONG

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 13:09
如果今年不报unit trust的收入，以后再报可以抵掉部分的税吗？谢谢

need lodge tax return for unit trust

hgaox

STS-TAX 发表于 2012-9-4 13:26
Unit holder is family trust or individual?

是family trust

cycwong21

If unit trust is currently doing nothing, basically would be at loss situation. Losses can not be distributed out of unit trust. In future, when the property was built and sold, there might have Capital Gains. Unit trust can distribute out capital gains to family trust unit holder. Then, from family trust distribute out capital gains to individual of family members.

hgaox

cycwong21 发表于 2012-9-4 13:42
If unit trust is currently doing nothing, basically would be at loss situation. Losses can not be di ...

多谢多谢。我的理解就是现在的lose不可以抵掉未来应该缴纳的税款，对吗。

cycwong21

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 13:47
多谢多谢。我的理解就是现在的lose不可以抵掉未来应该缴纳的税款，对吗。 ...

Ordinary losses arisen from Unit trust can only carry forward to meet future ordinary profit.

Past accumulated capital expenses can offset future capital gains, then distribute out from unit trust to unit holder.

Ordinary losses normally created by such as ASIC Fees if the trustee is a company for unit trust, then Accountant's fees etc.

Capital expenses would be any expense relating to the development of the new properties.

LENNY_DONG

taxbreak 发表于 2012-9-4 13:12
CGT from properties owned by Unit trusts are shared the same way as owned in joint individual name ...

see, family trust as unit holder

long term benefit picture

JohnnySu

If there is a family trust in place then this structure makes better sense but still all the loss is trapped in the unit trust  for now.

hgaox

cycwong21 发表于 2012-9-4 13:48
Ordinary losses arisen from Unit trust can only carry forward to meet future ordinary profit.

Pas ...

因为用etax报税，关于unit trust的这部分不会填写，就想忽略(就选择没有 现在这个unit trust还没有申请abn），以后盈利后再找会计师报税，可行吗？谢谢

kevin_m

17楼，你在 TRUST 里面的 亏损 不能分到 每一个UNIT HOLDER 手里，  不过是可以抵扣 以后年度的收益的
20楼  UNIT TRUST 每个UNIT 都是固定的 所以 你不能随意更改 你以后的收益， 而是按照固定比例分配收益，
但是20楼提到的 FAMILY discretionary trust 每年可以按照需要 修改 分红的比例！ 可以起到合理避税的作用。

你这种情况 用FAMILY TRUST 或者 用 Partnership  才处理你的资产更加合理， 因为Partnership 是可以分配亏损的。你现在的设立唯一的作用是asset protection.

ANYWAY， 你需要report trust return

瓦特了

都做unit trust 了肯定有会计帮你做吧？

hgaox

瓦特了 发表于 2012-9-4 15:33
都做unit trust 了肯定有会计帮你做吧？

没有会计，还没有赚钱，只是向里面填钱了。

hgaox

kevin_m 发表于 2012-9-4 15:26
17楼，你在 TRUST 里面的 亏损 不能分到 每一个UNIT HOLDER 手里，  不过是可以抵扣 以后年度的收益的
20楼 ...

感谢，改天把分加上

cycwong21

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-4 15:20
因为用etax报税，关于unit trust的这部分不会填写，就想忽略(就选择没有 现在这个unit trust还没有申请ab ...

No matter you are making losses or profit for your unit trust or family trust, you still need to lodge tax returns for both entities every year. Prepare formal accounts for both entities, although there's nothing really big at moment. Otherwise, how can ATO knows how much losses are carried forward to offset future profit. There's also penalty applied if you did not lodge tax returns on time, I think it's about $550 for each entity and for every year delayed.

Also, you would need to apply ABN and TFN no. for your unit trust. Otherwise, how can you claim GST on your property developments and other general expenses. Make sure you have kept all invoices/receipts which must be issued to your unit trust's name, not your name, not your family trust name or any other name. 90% of property development business would be audited by ATO.  

Nearly all of property develoment business companies were audited by ATO for all previous accounting offices I have worked for. Because, we knew there's high risk for audit, we have to be very careful to monitor for what our clients's done from time to time. We generally asked them to submit us all tax invoices and receipts evey quarter when we lodged BAS. If there's anything incorrect, we would straightaway ask clients to adjust. Sometimes, it's hard to ask other parties to amend their invoice/receipts after a long period.

Another matter, make sure all expenses relating to property developments that must be come out from the bank account of the unit trust. Do not pay out money for these expenses from everywhere bank accounts or personal bank accounts. ATO would  deny expenses deduction if you refused to provide your other bank accounts which were not belonged to the unit trust.

I had one very stubborn client before. We have had advised him how he should prepare his account, how he should pay out the money, how he should keep invoice/receipts and check the title of invoices/receipts; we could not remember how many times we have reminded him. However, he refused to do whatsoever we said. He did not think he would be that lucky to get ATO audit because of it was only a small business running, building two units only.

Two years later, he received a letter from ATO which wanted to audit GST he claimed for last two years. Because he could not find a lot of tax invoices/receipts, plus money paid out by cash, different banks accounts which owned by different family members. Therefore, he could not show he had paid off  these business expenses either. Everntually, some GST amounts which did not have evidence support were denied, plus 75% penalty which later dropped to 25% after we wrote a letter to ATO for negotiation. However, he still had to pay about $100k to ATO. That's meant he had not profit left to him, but lossess. And these losses arisen from ATO could not be carried forward to offset future earnings.

hgaox

kevin_m 发表于 2012-9-4 15:26
17楼，你在 TRUST 里面的 亏损 不能分到 每一个UNIT HOLDER 手里，  不过是可以抵扣 以后年度的收益的
20楼 ...

我现在的疑问是，这个unittrust是负收入，这还需要报税吗？等将来有了收入之后可不可以一起报税，谢谢。

LENNY_DONG

你需要LODGE TRUST TAX RETURN EVEN LOSS

kevin_m

hgaox 发表于 2012-9-5 23:06
我现在的疑问是，这个unittrust是负收入，这还需要报税吗？等将来有了收入之后可不可以一起报税，谢谢。 ...

亏的也要报

只有报了 在ATO 才记录你亏了  以后才能抵扣