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楼主:antique

[其他方面] 再次更新了第三个故事 (我的自省篇): 请看第三页. 如果你认为Ebay & Paypal会保护你的利益, 请你要小心了! [复制链接]

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发表于 2012-10-25 09:24 |显示全部楼层
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根绝LZ写的,LZ还是赢了,那个卖家的100%好评没有了吧?
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发表于 2012-10-25 09:24 |显示全部楼层
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发表于 2012-10-25 09:45 |显示全部楼层
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nis 发表于 2012-10-25 10:24
根绝LZ写的,LZ还是赢了,那个卖家的100%好评没有了吧?

He is not 100% any more. He never contacted me to get his lens back although I get my money back. Don't know why. Maybe too shameful.

as I said, buyers can't judge a seller by the percentage only, even if it is 100%.

Sellers might "buy opinion" from buyers.

发表于 2012-10-25 09:46 |显示全部楼层
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erni 发表于 2012-10-25 10:24

Throw points in please, if you appreciate my endeavour.

2007 年度奖章获得者

发表于 2012-10-25 09:50 |显示全部楼层
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antique 发表于 2012-10-25 07:28
高人!

请问我现在还能告paypal吗? 他的negligence在我的cases发挥地淋漓尽致.

告,幹嘛不告,最多就是告不贏唄,你又沒啥損失
不過我沒告過PAYPAL呢,每次都是威脅要告的時候他們就已經服軟退錢給我了。

AUST POST,也已經打了兩次交道。一次通過OMBUDSMAN告贏了,一次他們自己就接受投訴后賠償了。詳情請見下兩貼,請繼續加分

1,历时近一年,终于打胜了和AUST POST的一仗
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... read&tid=539031

2,如果你通过AUST POST寄的EXPRESS POST没有按期到达,请记住索赔 http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... read&tid=563722

最後,偶是綠童鞋,不是大哥

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antique + 2 我借了分,先还您. 明天再给加!

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发表于 2012-10-25 10:44 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 antique 于 2012-10-25 20:02 编辑
anitalx 发表于 2012-10-25 10:50
告,幹嘛不告,最多就是告不贏唄,你又沒啥損失
不過我沒告過PAYPAL呢,每次都是威脅要告的時候他們 ...


Dear Princess (对不起,我刊正了). Thanks. I bomb you with 6 tons of TNT tomorrow.

Finally I got a nuclear weapon!
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发表于 2012-10-25 10:51 |显示全部楼层
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楼主加油。

发表于 2012-10-25 12:02 |显示全部楼层
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怎么从银行charge back的,这个过程好像有很多的精彩那么lz继续

发表于 2012-10-25 12:15 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 antique 于 2012-10-25 13:43 编辑
shulanmei 发表于 2012-10-25 13:02
怎么从银行charge back的,这个过程好像有很多的精彩那么lz继续


A good question.

Charge-back is the last weapon to cope with tough sellers. You can't abuse it becasue both seller and buyer will be recorded in banking system. If you abuse the weapon, bank will suspect ...

First of all, you need to exhaust all other possibilities to get money back, like ebay, Paypal, or directly communicating with seller,etc. You also need to proof you are entitled to. Not always you will win. if loose, a bank fee will be applied (not sure about buyer??).

as a buyer, you have right to contact your credit card company to raise your disputes. You need to have a very strong arguement, otherwise the credit card company is likely to decline you.

In my case, I got strong support from Ebay Australia, who provided my bank with lots of documents, like emails between seller and buyer, my communication with ebay australia. What I provided is only a story. The bank staff will verify your statement and then make judgement.

The seller set a TRAP for me, but from a common sense, a buyer will not waive the right to claim before he or she receive the goods. Judging by whole communication chain, " ...I want to buy a good quality lens rather than the intention to seek the reversal of credit card payment ..." the bank doesn't get the conclusion that I waived my right. Unfortunately, the seller didn't get the same understanding.

The lesson here is:

The communication, no matter who you are, buyer or seller, should be very careful in order to protect your interest.

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2007 年度奖章获得者

发表于 2012-10-25 12:39 |显示全部楼层
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antique 发表于 2012-10-25 11:44
Good brother. Thanks. I bomb you with 6 tons of TNT tomorrow.

Finally I got a nuclear weapon!

我可要生氣啊啊
怎么還在說brother呢,說了偶是女的啊

发表于 2012-10-25 12:46 |显示全部楼层
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anitalx 发表于 2012-10-25 13:39
我可要生氣啊啊
怎么還在說brother呢,說了偶是女的啊

My God!

Sorry, my princess. Please forgive me, Princess.
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发表于 2012-10-25 13:04 |显示全部楼层
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anitalx 发表于 2012-10-25 10:50
告,幹嘛不告,最多就是告不贏唄,你又沒啥損失
不過我沒告過PAYPAL呢,每次都是威脅要告的時候他們 ...

I went through your case against Post Office. Congratulations! I admire your capability, a super strong princess.

Are you in Sydney?

发表于 2012-10-25 14:00 |显示全部楼层
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antique 发表于 2012-10-25 14:04
I went through your case against Post Office. Congratulations! I admire your capability, a super s ...

强强联手?

发表于 2012-10-25 14:17 |显示全部楼层
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shulanmei 发表于 2012-10-25 15:00
强强联手?

Yes! Yes! Even more!

发表于 2012-10-25 14:20 |显示全部楼层
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antique 发表于 2012-10-25 15:17
Yes! Yes! Even more!

暧昧

发表于 2012-10-25 14:30 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 antique 于 2012-10-25 15:33 编辑
shulanmei 发表于 2012-10-25 15:20
暧昧


it (暧昧) is an important strategy that seller lists items on ebay, like "in nice condition" or "in beautiful condition", even I ever saw "in amazing condition". What does it mean? PayPal will experience headach if anything wrong with the transaction.

Who knows?
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发表于 2012-10-25 16:15 |显示全部楼层
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antique 发表于 2012-10-25 10:45
He is not 100% any more. He never contacted me to get his lens back although I get my money back.  ...

所以看好评率还是有用的阿。如果一个卖家总是恶意欺骗买家,他不可能保持100%的好评。

发表于 2012-10-25 17:42 |显示全部楼层
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nis 发表于 2012-10-25 17:15
所以看好评率还是有用的阿。如果一个卖家总是恶意欺骗买家,他不可能保持100%的好评。 ...

yes, 100% is better than 99.9%

as a buyer, when you are very keen to get the item, The price you offered is usually higher than fair value ... and then the nightmare might be not far from you.

I made mistake in my first case. If it is a reasonable price, the dispute might be solved in a simply way. I saw a send negative feedback on his record, but it was gone in a couple of weeks. I know that they, both, might reach somewhat agreement.

so that is why the rate might not be accurate as it is.

发表于 2012-10-25 20:18 |显示全部楼层
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安慰一下 有气没处出啊

发表于 2012-10-25 20:35 |显示全部楼层
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Agamemnon 发表于 2012-10-25 21:18
安慰一下 有气没处出啊

Thanks, mate. I have updates tonight. I am writing now. But my 拼音 ...

I need your patience.

发表于 2012-10-25 20:42 |显示全部楼层
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大家可以先用这链接看, I will upload the article herein later tonight.

http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... read&tid=572078
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发表于 2012-10-25 21:45 |显示全部楼层

今天不声讨任何人, 检讨自己. 从seller的角度看Ebay.

此文章由 antique 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 antique 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 antique 于 2012-10-26 08:09 编辑

上接: 澳洲 PayPal 和 AUSPOST 谁更烂? (声讨 PayPal 续三)
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... read&tid=571464

今天不声讨任何人, 检讨自己. 从seller的角度看Ebay.

我从AUPOST白拿了一个HASSEL(哈苏)头. 那个叫 "fishfarm" (Default User image Member id fishfarm ( 896Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999)
我刚查了一下, 这家伙已身败名裂了. 我不走运, 这家伙那时还是100%, 看来是从我这个倒霉蛋开始败落的.

摆在我面前的第一个抉择就是我要不要学这家伙? 我吃够了苦头, 对骗子深恶痛绝. 但现实问题是:
1. if I don't describe the defects, the lens might be sold at $850-1000

2. if I disclose all, the lens might be only $300-400 as repair parts

我左右为难, 仔细分析一下:

1. removable clean marks on rear element: slightly affect the value, particularly to professional users

2. missing screw: black and white, considerably affect the value to normal users because you can't buy such a screw from Bunnings, but slightly affect the value to repairman

3. UV filter: separately from lens itself, just no added value to the lens, but no impact on the lens itself

4. coating defects, particularly the size 4mmx1mm, no impact on quality of pictures, but significantly affect the value of lens

My target buyers: repairmen, or dealers

listing strategy:

1. 100% disclose from item 1 to item 3

2. Disclose item 4 in an ambiguous way.
I didn't say "coating defects" clearly and directly. Only narrative it in a plain language.
"a couple of white pin-head dots, I don't know what they are"
I didn't mention the 4mmx1mm defect in words, but a picture showing a little bit problem which was highlighted in a circle.
The descriptin only raise buyer's attetion to the very picture. I only said "I don't know what it is"

self estimated fair value: $600 more or less

Start price $500

Listing period: 7 days

"Majority of Ebay sellers only mentions possitive side of item, very few people tells you the negative side. I am a new seller, who wants to encourage a totally new listing style _ only list negative things:
1. ...
2. ...
3 ....
...."
then a number of pictures attached.


3天过去, 无人问津. 第四天, 来了一个, 问了一堆问题, 大部份非常专业. 一看不是一般拍片的.他说他不介意那些问题, 他有很多parts, lids (我留下了前后镜盖, 因为有无镜盖对这个头没什么大影响, 一般人不会去买的)
他最关心的是scratches, haze, fungus, and separation. I 100% assured him, no scratches, Haze, fungus. If any, return to me, I paid all postage, incl return.
Separation 是非常专业的问题, 我这菜鸟还真没这本事鉴别早早期的separation issue. 我实话实说.
隔了一天, sent me a long instruction how to identify the issue, why and impact on image quality ... and a detailed instruction to take pictures of this lens from what angle, how to take it in sequence. I followed his instruction and sent him those pictures. He told me that he could not exclude all possibilties. I told him that he could bid first, and I would send him as many pictures as he wanted before shipping. I was happy to cancel the transaction if he was not happy with those pictures, I said.

there was no bidding until last ten minutes when I was in a park outside, with no access to internet. I called one of my friends and asked him to bid my lens at $560 as a reserve price, which was outbid by the US repairman at last minute.

The final price is at $570, which is close to my estimate. This price is relatively fair to me.

In the following 3 weeks, I took pictures of this lens as per the instruction from the repairman. Finally he was satified because he was quite comfortable after I sent him 50 pictures. He gave greenlight for me to ship the lens with a special instruction of packaging (double cartons, lens lying 5cm away from any part of inner carton).

Becuase no defects can be hidden in front of a repairman, I was quite upset at that time. I sent him an email through Ebay and raised his attention to the white dots and those pictures.He replied that he was ok with them.

I was well prepared to receive his compliants after shipping and also ready to pay his return postage at anytime. The worse scenario is  that I pay $150 as postage (both ways), in return, the repairman can put a screw on the lens at least.

To be surprised, no message at all within next 2 weeks. He was supposed to have received the parcel. The 3rd week, the email was sent to me.

他花了3个小时修了99%的问题, 他还要送到他朋友处去校准快门. 幸亏他自己会修, 要不然Buyer一定不会放过我, 因为至少$175 for labour. (3小时在Sydney = 3x80=$240 Camera Service Centre) 他决定不退了, 也不留feedback.
他没提那1%的问题是什么, 我也没问. 估计是coating defects. 他说可以转卖 $800, 刚好保本. 只是做了我的钟点工.我提出赔他$100, 他没要.

在我给他拍照的三个星期里我学了很多本事. 我也知道了一些他的故事. 互联网和digital cameras 对他的生意影响是毁灭性的.他生意圈里的人, 全卖digital camera, 很少有做film camera了. 大部分人都不干了 (恨死了BH!). 他还硬撑着, 因为他会修.

我邀请他来Sydney 来开店, 他婉拒了. 他是座轮椅的, 来不方便. 尽管我告诉他澳洲对less mobile people很照顾, 他还是不愿离开熟悉的地方.

我骗了我的老师!

作为seller, 你诚实了, 买家出价时并不领情. 不诚实, 不可取, 我也知道没借口去骗人.做起来是不容易.

大家砸我吧.我既然写出来, 就准备给大家批的.

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2007 年度奖章获得者

发表于 2012-10-25 22:11 |显示全部楼层
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antique 发表于 2012-10-25 14:04
I went through your case against Post Office. Congratulations! I admire your capability, a super s ...

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参与人数 1积分 +2 收起 理由
antique + 2 慢慢还. 求教,要是在邮局收到破包咋办?拒收.

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发表于 2012-10-25 23:43 |显示全部楼层

Credit Card Charge-back

此文章由 antique 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 antique 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 antique 于 2012-10-26 00:46 编辑
shulanmei 发表于 2012-10-25 13:02
怎么从银行charge back的,这个过程好像有很多的精彩那么lz继续


您可点击下边的链接看Charge-back.

http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... &fromuid=130761

发表于 2012-10-25 23:56 |显示全部楼层
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anitalx 发表于 2012-10-25 23:11

多谢 Princess. 非但不骂我, 还加分鼓励.
既有"斗牛"士的勇气和决心, 又有"绿童鞋"的 ...

可惜我这布鞋每次只能加2分.我欠你越欠越多了. 不知如何还?

发表于 2012-10-26 07:21 |显示全部楼层
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anitalx 发表于 2012-10-25 23:11

向 Princess 求教:
在邮局拒收破包, PayPal怎么判?

我碰到过俩回, 收了. 结果在PayPal 吃了苦头. 我常被PayPal 欺, 恐怕只有 Princess 你才能常欺PayPal的.
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2007 年度奖章获得者

发表于 2012-10-26 07:46 |显示全部楼层
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不知道啊,没经历过的事儿不能乱说。
不过我觉得可以打电话先问问paypal,这种情况应该怎么做,需要邮局出示什么证据来支持。要不写EMAIL更好,他们的回复白纸黑字

发表于 2012-10-26 08:36 |显示全部楼层
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anitalx 发表于 2012-10-26 08:46
不知道啊,没经历过的事儿不能乱说。
不过我觉得可以打电话先问问paypal,这种情况应该怎么做,需要邮局出 ...

PayPal is very sneaky. I don't think that I could get a written answer from them.
Calling them is also in vain.

I had a case, where I quoted a written statement from one of their staff, they were blind to it. When you questioned the key points, they were just pretending deaf and blind ...

No effective way to handle PayPal, so far.  I will try yours next time.

发表于 2012-10-26 09:18 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 antique 于 2012-10-26 10:19 编辑
anitalx 发表于 2012-10-26 08:46
不知道啊,没经历过的事儿不能乱说。
不过我觉得可以打电话先问问paypal,这种情况应该怎么做,需要邮局出 ...


Hi Princess,

I have a good idea to teach PayPal a lesson.

I send you a broken parcel and you refuse to receive it. You lodge a claim at PayPal, "paid, not received"

You treaten PayPal using your famous way. I sent PayPal the register postage receipt and also treaten the bastad using the same way.

No matter what PayPal makes its decision, the bastad has to appear in court, unless PayPal agrees to pay you and me both in this case. I will send you a valuable lens.

Is it ok with you?

If anybody supports my plan, and keen to kwnow the end, please don't hesitate to throw your points in (jia fen).

Thanks.
Antique

2007 年度奖章获得者

发表于 2012-10-26 09:51 |显示全部楼层
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