Imported goods and GST

yesido

I have a question regarding GST. Please help me.

Our holding company A in the US has arranged some shipping for us through UPS.

UPS has charged A GST at the custom.

A is now passing the shipping cost include the GST to us.

Can we deduct this GST? Or we have to have UPS bill us directly to deduct GST?

Any advise is appreciated by FENFEN.

dickson

听不懂你在问啥

newbie123

ditto

redhotliu

I ROUGHLY KNOW WAT YOU ASK,

U CANT CLAIM FOR GST IF US HOLDING BILL YOU WITH SHIPPING COST WHICH INCLDUES GST AMOUNT.

HOWEVER, YOU MAY CLAIM GST IF LET UPS BILL YOU DIRECTLY WITH GST INVOICE.

快哉风

GST of what?
UPS charged GST on shipping goods?????

yesido

不好意思，英文很烂。
澳洲公司甲公司，甲公司的母公司是一个美国公司乙公司。
乙公司通过一个货运公司丙公司给甲公司运了一批货。这批货在海关被收了GST。 货运公司把GST and other charge给了母公司。母公司又把整个费用包括GST转给甲公司。 甲公司把钱付给了母公司。 这被征收的GST，能被甲公司用来claim GST credit吗？

yesido

the argument is: the holding company is not a GST registed company, it is an overseas company does not belong to AU tax system, they have no right to charge AU company GST.
We have no prove that we paid GST to ATO...or ATO cannot control that holding company will pay GST to ATO...

shuyuanli

最好还是让UPS 给你们开个含有GST的invoice，UPS会给你们一份OTPA表，更正一下这票货的owner，重新以你们公司的名义进口。 但UPS 这家公司很贱，让他们做一点点事都会收额外费用的。

redhotliu

原帖由 yesido 于 2011-10-4 16:25 发表
the argument is: the holding company is not a GST registed company, it is an overseas company does not belong to AU tax system, they have no right to charge AU company GST.
We have no prove that we pa ...

Read my answer carfully please.

include GST amount doesnt necessarily means charge you GST. You will need to pay full amount of invoice from US entity.

if your holding company is AU entity, the gst benefit can be passed to payer without any further notice.

more fenfen please

[ 本帖最后由 redhotliu 于 2011-10-4 16:32 编辑 ]

快哉风

What is the incoterm, FOB? CIF?

Normally duties and GST of goods should be paid by the importer when clearing the goods from the customs. Don't know why GST is charged to the shipping company and then passed on to exporter. But if it is the case, it is importer's responsibility to pay the duties and GST unless the incoterm is DDP

yesido

原帖由 快哉风 于 2011-10-4 16:39 发表
What is the incoterm, FOB? CIF?

Normally duties and GST of goods should be paid by the importer when clearing the goods from the customs. Don't know why GST is charged to the shipping company and the ...

Thank you. I am not an expert of exporting and importing. I know roughly about these terms but without getting in touch directly with the UPS, I cannot tell!
Would these terms be addressed on the shipping documents?

Would you suggest me to contact UPS directly?

dickson

没有注册GST就没办法抵扣， 这个GST你们一定要付的， 无解。

快哉风

原帖由 dickson 于 2011-10-4 16:43 发表
没有注册GST就没办法抵扣， 这个GST你们一定要付的， 无解。

Correct.

It is quite strange that UPS paid duties and GST as a shipping company and then forwarded the cost to exporter.

redhotliu

原帖由 yesido 于 2011-10-4 16:42 发表


Thank you. I am not an expert of exporting and importing. I know roughly about these terms but without getting in touch directly with the UPS, I cannot tell!
Would these terms be addressed on the sh ...

u have to ask ups to redirect bill to you if you want to claim this gst.

快哉风

原帖由 yesido 于 2011-10-4 16:42 发表


Thank you. I am not an expert of exporting and importing. I know roughly about these terms but without getting in touch directly with the UPS, I cannot tell!
Would these terms be addressed on the sh ...

Should be showing on bill of lading or even on invoices

快哉风

Are you the importer or freight forwarder?

I think UPS did customs clearance for you. Am I correct?

yesido

原帖由 快哉风 于 2011-10-4 16:57 发表
Are you the importer or freight forwarder?

I think UPS did customs clearance for you. Am I correct?

We are just getting some equipment for our own use.
I was the last one to know what happened!
I presume that UPS did the customs clearance for the holding company...
we have received the goods, months ago...

shuyuanli

你首先得弄清楚：

1.你们的交易条款是什么，也就是incoterm是什么，这个条款是作为费用分摊的依据，你们公司的buyer会有这个信息。
2.你再看看ups上的AIRWAY BILL 上面有没有标明关税应该由哪一方支付， 你可以从UPS或者海外公司处拿到这个AWB,然后对比一下第一项的条款看看有没有冲突
3.弄清楚这票货到底是以哪个公司的名义进口的，关于这点你可以向UPS索取该票货的import declaration form, 也就是这票货的报关记录，上面会显示OWNER是谁，以及所付的GST数额，再留意一下看看有没有一行叫做DEFFERED AMOUNT的字。

你拿到以上的信息就能把事情的来龙去脉搞清楚了

yesido

原帖由 shuyuanli 于 2011-10-4 18:06 发表
你首先得弄清楚：

1.你们的交易条款是什么，也就是incoterm是什么，这个条款是作为费用分摊的依据，你们公司的buyer会有这个信息。
2.你再看看ups上的AIRWAY BILL 上面有没有标明关税应该由哪一方支付， 你可以从UPS或者海外 ...

一看就是专家，我明天再回来补份，先谢过！

shuyuanli

原帖由 yesido 于 2011-10-4 18:43 发表


一看就是专家，我明天再回来补份，先谢过！

砖家算不上，类似的事情在我这发生了好多次了，有点经验而已。

反正GST最后估计还是由你们付，只是不应该由海外公司charge给你们，而应该是由UPS代付然后向你们收取,如果你们公司有GST DEFERRAL ACCOUNT那么就连现金都不用付了,报关的时候会记到你们账里.

oooo

可以claim GST
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/13193.htm

乘物以游心

美国的母公司没有注册GST，
所以他们收到UPS含GST的账单，只能当成普通物流费处理，不能Pass on 给子公司，并做GST Credit处理，
所以子公司收到母公司的发票里，虽然包含有GST的那部分费用，但是却是不含GST的（没有注册GST的Entity，不能收取GST）
所以子公司也就不能做GST抵扣了，无形中给子公司增加了10%的进口成本。

要避免的话，只有一个方法：
让UPS澳洲公司（当然是有注册GST的了），直接把GST的部分发账单给你。（当然，还要Credit美国母公司，美国母公司再Credit给子公司）

当然得要有个理由了，那就索要相关的海运单据了，
母公司给的Commercial Invoice和Bill of ladding里面都有些清楚incoterm的具体条款。

如果是DDP（卖方付GST和Duty），那UPS就没有做错，帮不帮你处理，就看人品了。
如果是其它条款（买方支付GST和Duty），那就有官司打了：
1、 美国母公司通知UPS，说这票是XXX条款（如CIF Melbourne），买方负责GST和Duty，所以我们拒付GST和Duty，请让你们的澳洲子公司Bill importer（就是你们的澳洲子公司）
2、 然后，美国母公司可以Credit GST和Duty的金额给子公司，然后UPS澳洲子公司也会Bill你们同等的GST和Duty金额。
这样就达到目的了。

对于不熟悉国际贸易的人，优点绕，但是偶已经尽量说情楚一步步逻辑关系了，不知道明白没有。。。

P.S. 顺便鄙视楼上那个“Redhotliu”同学，
拽啦巴叽的，多说几句都不愿意；
态度还恶劣，动不动怪人没仔细看你那两句话；
还好意思主动要分？！

切！

yesido

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2011-10-4 23:27 发表
美国的母公司没有注册GST，
所以他们收到UPS含GST的账单，只能当成普通物流费处理，不能Pass on 给子公司，并做GST Credit处理，
所以子公司收到母公司的发票里，虽然包含有GST的那部分费用，但是却是不含GST的（没有注册GST的Entity ...

Great! Appreciate your help! Have to wait later today for FENFEN.

You are a Champion~!

redhotliu

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2011-10-4 23:27 发表
美国的母公司没有注册GST，
所以他们收到UPS含GST的账单，只能当成普通物流费处理，不能Pass on 给子公司，并做GST Credit处理，
所以子公司收到母公司的发票里，虽然包含有GST的那部分费用，但是却是不含GST的（没有注册GST的Entity ...

LZ just ask GST claim Questions. and I answered it.

The invoice questions should be passed to Dep head for approval. They have to figure out if UPS charges to wrong entity as they are original contracted with them.

This is not LZ job. Why did she have to figure out those intel.trading term?

and then whats wrong with my answer? Read it doesnt necessarily understand wat it is supposed to mean.

yutoubao

做账的时候, 都应该围绕澳洲子公司来做, 美国母公司是海外公司.

澳洲子公司有义务替母公司支付所有费用, 但是在转嫁给海外公司的时候, 只能转嫁GST exclusive amount, 也就是说澳洲子公司自己交了GST, 那么理所应当的可以在BAS反应出来. 非常简单的事情.

redhotliu

The answer is quite simple.

as there is no gst show in US entity's invoice and they are not registered with GST.

Therefore you cant claim GST against invoice from US entity.

In this case, this is clear GST net loss case.

If lz want to talk UPS to redirect bill, this will be another story.

yesido

原帖由 redhotliu 于 2011-10-5 11:07 发表
The answer is quite simple.

as there is no gst show in US entity's invoice and they are not registered with GST.

Therefore you cant claim GST against invoice from US entity.

In this case, this is c ...

Thank you.

Another similar question.
Holding company sent staff to Australia, staff had travel expenses(accommodation, meal, rental car), all these expense are paid by holding company's credit card.
Now the holding company passing these expenses to us.

Again, this is a GST loss?

What is the best practice to avoid GST loss?

redhotliu

Same as before. as simple as gst net loss.

let the staffs from US holding company reimburse expense from your company which is oz entity or you can simply book for them and pay on behalf of them as long as you know their routine.

We used to have a lot of gst loss for travel expense reimbursement. but we change the policy and reimburse them localy without involving holding company in the activity. However, you still need to get approval for  payment from US mother company.

乘物以游心

原帖由 redhotliu 于 2011-10-5 09:39 发表

LZ just ask GST claim Questions. and I answered it.

The invoice questions should be passed to Dep head for approval. They have to figure out if UPS charges to wrong entity as they are original con ...

Of course you know what's wrong with your last answer coz you've clearly improved on your last two posts.
I am glad to see the changes though.

(paopaobing(32))

In case if you really want to know what's wrong with your previous post.  I hope this may help you with your writing manner.

1.  Upper cases normally means you are upset or criticizing.  You typed all your answer in upper case but not in this one.

2.  Try to use long sentences especially when you want to show your respect to others.
     Try to avoid using imperative sentences (normally sentences started with a verb)
     Sentence like this one below will make people feel very uncomfortable because the short and imperative sentences make it sound like an command or an exhortation.

      "Read my answer carefully please."

      Hint: Adding a "please" at the end doesn't really make it sound polite.

      I have a customer who often misread my emails.  I always say "please let me explain it again properly" and explain the same thing with different wording.
      One day she responded "Dear xxx, your explanation as always is not atfault - more so my understanding.  Really appreciate your patient!".

      You will feel rewarded and respected.
      If you want to make sure other people understood you correctly, re-phrasing and double confirming will greatly reduce misunderstanding.
      This is a very good communication manner encouraged in many large international corporates.

3.  Don't judge people with your prejudice.
     How do you know Yesido is not a department head?
     How do you know she is not a newly designated department head who is simply not familiar with that little bit of details?
     How do you know it's not her job to figure out the trading terms?

     Believe me.  There are lots of "Crouching Tigers and Hidden Dragons" in this forum as far as i know of.
     Don't let you pride blind yourself.

4.  Be nice!
     Let's just assume Yesido is a new starter in her accounting career.
     Knowing the solution for this GST loss issue is definitely a plus for her career.
     In case her manager asked her opinion, if she knew the answer, her manager will have a "knowledgeable" impression on her.
     If her company is often imports parcels under DDP term, realizing the cost saving opportunity could be a critical career chance for a new starter in case no one else want to look into this issue.
     Initializing this cross-departments plus inter-company "GST loss saving project" is a chance to show her attributes as self-motivated, effective cross departments coordination and attention to detail.
     At least, this is how a smart leader sees.

     P.S.  "Just do your job and don't worry about others" is not a positive career attitude.

Hope all this typing helps!

(paopaobing(32))

[ 本帖最后由 乘物以游心 于 2011-10-5 22:08 编辑 ]

redhotliu

原帖由 乘物以游心 于 2011-10-5 22:56 发表


Of course you know what's wrong with your last answer coz you've clearly improved on your last two posts.
I am glad to see the changes though.

(paopaobing(32))

In case if you really want to know w ...

无语，服了，能打那么多。我承认某个回答是有些aggressive.但能帮楼主正确回答和解决问题都是good answer.

纠正一句"inter-company"应该为intra-group, 因为lz所在是us holding company 在澳洲的子公司。

你把啥都揽自己身上，在公司，尤其大公司里会很累的。而且这个不是costing issue,是明显receiving dep 没把活干好。把问题指出，皮球该是谁的就还给谁即可。

[ 本帖最后由 redhotliu 于 2011-10-5 23:29 编辑 ]