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[NSW] 杀害多人的谢联斌对其定罪提出上诉  关闭 [复制链接]

发表于 2018-12-16 12:59 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 10:51
很高兴看到这么多信息,再提另一个线头,看能不能引出更多确切的信息

案发后调查,发现Brenda的出生证里 ...

Irene不是妻子,是小姨。
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发表于 2018-12-16 12:59 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 stellawan 于 2018-12-16 14:06 编辑
猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 13:26
是的
这些只是作为历史,也反映警察侦查过程,也比较一下动机
一开始辩方还质问检方另几个方向的侦查,包 ...


我的理解是:检方的立场本来就是想尽办法提出证据证明被告有罪,提出的疑点和证据远比最后经过evidence hearing而被采纳的多,如果证据存在质疑,就会dismissed。Jury最终根据经过法庭筛选考量后的实质证据,来判断当事人是否有罪.
证明清白是辩方的事,你自己拿不出实质的证据就声称被陷害,这不是耍无赖吗?

发表于 2018-12-16 13:07 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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"法庭上有三种真相,一是辩方的真相,二是控方的真相,三是真相本身,谁的真相能说服陪审团,谁就是最大的赢家"
虽说是电影台词,生活中也确实如此
对政治只有遥远的兴趣。穿越谎言,拨开迷雾,见证历史
今生戒不掉的毒瘾,是对咖啡最长情的告白

发表于 2018-12-16 13:07 |显示全部楼层
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Hetbert 发表于 2018-12-16 13:19
这种风闻之事,莫须有的犯罪动机,上诉肯定用不到。

就算梁没有不在场证明,也没有在场证明,没有任何证 ...

“梁”就是“L"姓的前夫吗?他们之前的婚姻关系不是“风闻”吧,是不是真的都可以查的。
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发表于 2018-12-16 13:09 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 11:51
Herbert可能正在找
而逻辑上看是可能的,问问True Allele 为什么需要做三次? ...

做实验做三次很正常啊

就像停车,第一次、第二次停不好,难道不可以停三次?

就像准备report,第一次、第二次没弄好,难道就不能弄第三次?弄第三次,就说明是在做假???

发表于 2018-12-16 13:17 |显示全部楼层
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碧姐 发表于 2018-12-16 14:07
“梁”就是“L"姓的前夫吗?他们之前的婚姻关系不是“风闻”吧,是不是真的都可以查的。 ...

这个前情,是真的吗?没有记得有报道过。
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发表于 2018-12-16 13:31 |显示全部楼层
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碧姐 发表于 2018-12-16 13:52
什么呀?不是Irene, 是Lily!

啊,对了,是Lily

发表于 2018-12-16 13:37 |显示全部楼层
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stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 13:19
你贴这个有什么作用?他是问你猫反复提到说谢凌晨两点电脑关机的说法哪来的. ...

贴这个表面控方承认谢作案的时间只能是2点以后。

至于谢上网到2点,这个以前都是讨论过的。
持不同股见者...

发表于 2018-12-16 13:45 |显示全部楼层
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stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 13:59
我的理解是:检方的立场本来就是想尽办法提出证据证明被告有罪,提出的疑点和证据远比最后经过evidence h ...

什么是你自己?
检方控罪,拿出罪证责任在于检方
现在讨论的是证据是否确切

辩方早期提出其他方向的线索,意在向陪审团表明,还有更多可能凶手的线索,有的动机和迹象都很可疑,以冲淡针对被告的指控
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发表于 2018-12-16 13:49 |显示全部楼层
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stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 13:19
你贴这个有什么作用?他是问你猫反复提到说谢凌晨两点电脑关机的说法哪来的. ...

什么“谢2点关机”,就是一件某些人无中生有的事情

发表于 2018-12-16 13:54 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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hotornot 发表于 2018-12-16 14:49
什么“谢2点关机”,就是一件某些人无中生有的事情

我就觉得奇怪,我是原文完全找不到.
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发表于 2018-12-16 13:55 |显示全部楼层
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hotornot 发表于 2018-12-16 14:09
做实验做三次很正常啊

就像停车,第一次、第二次停不好,难道不可以停三次?

看看#1406

辩方的意见之一是True Allele 不是一个成熟可靠的技术,这才需要做几次,还在第三间房採取的血迹样本“查到了” 还活着的Brenda 的DNA。这不知怎样解释,我觉得很离谱

发表于 2018-12-16 14:00 |显示全部楼层
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stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 14:54
我就觉得奇怪,我是原文完全找不到.

你查不到不等于不存在
2am 这事是确切存在的
我讲的信息都存在,我是为了追求真相才在这里的,不像一些人
只是现在懒得去找,太多人这样问了

发表于 2018-12-16 14:04 |显示全部楼层
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stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 14:54
我就觉得奇怪,我是原文完全找不到.

看看#1426

发表于 2018-12-16 14:04 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 14:45
什么是你自己?
检方控罪,拿出罪证责任在于检方
现在讨论的是证据是否确切

“辩方早期提出其他方向的线索,意在向陪审团表明,还有更多可能凶手的线索,有的动机和迹象都很可疑,以冲淡针对被告的指控”

这种认知,扯东扯西,律师费花光他也说不明白。是不是除了kathy反复改口供给他的不在场时间证明,他没别的有效证据了?

发表于 2018-12-16 14:07 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 15:04
看看#1426

#1426没有任何一个字提到谢当夜使用电脑到两点关机,这个他没贴出来前我就看过了,我还是老话,你这个2点关机的原文在哪?
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发表于 2018-12-16 14:13 |显示全部楼层
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stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 15:04
“辩方早期提出其他方向的线索,意在向陪审团表明,还有更多可能凶手的线索,有的动机和迹象都很可疑,以 ...

有时间看一下法庭记录
关于Kathy对多次被警方拷问而回答不尽一致,三审最后已经有了结论,那就是Kathy是真挚的。面对的是重复,从不同角度,包括一些故意设计来使她给出稍微不同答案,使她迟疑或怀疑自己是否搭错的问题,任何无辜的人都可能像她那样回答
也因为这样,第四审的检察官 Smith 改腔了,不再指责她为了保护丈夫出假证,而是被谢下药了所以她的谢不在场证据还是不成立。。。

发表于 2018-12-16 14:24 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 猫儿不笨 于 2018-12-16 17:48 编辑
stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 15:07
#1426没有任何一个字提到谢当夜使用电脑到两点关机,这个他没贴出来前我就看过了,我还是老话,你这个2点 ...


原文你可以继续找
稍微用脑想一下就知道了,作案时间范围越长,对控方越有利,这就是前三审检方坚持作案时间是从他们回到家里的 9:30pm至第二天9am尸体被发现时的原因
而第四审的检察官Smith把作案时间改为2am至5am,明显是被迫的,被什么所迫? 当然只能是那有记录的谢家电脑
Smith除了是个律师,还是个科学家,她先在QU获得了Bachelor of science,才读法律
她在第四审改动了几件事,使得检方减少了来自辩方的攻击和来自陪审团的质疑
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发表于 2018-12-16 14:25 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 15:00
你查不到不等于不存在
2am 这事是确切存在的
我讲的信息都存在,我是为了追求真相才在这里的,不像一些人 ...

请贴出2点的原文
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发表于 2018-12-16 14:26 |显示全部楼层
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hornsay 发表于 2018-12-16 14:37
贴这个表面控方承认谢作案的时间只能是2点以后。

至于谢上网到2点,这个以前都是讨论过的。 ...

呵呵 啥叫“讨论过的”?你讨论过的,就会成为事实?

请出示原文

发表于 2018-12-16 14:26 |显示全部楼层
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meteordust 发表于 2018-12-16 00:36
谢谢你找来这么多资料。

不过显然你的英语不行。

是三个凶手杀人。

俩个在林夫妻房间里,一个在Irene房间里。

俩个出了林夫妻房间后变冲向小孩房间。
持不同股见者...
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发表于 2018-12-16 14:26 |显示全部楼层
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hotornot 发表于 2018-12-16 15:25
请贴出2点的原文

#1426,#1488

发表于 2018-12-16 14:28 |显示全部楼层
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hotornot 发表于 2018-12-16 15:26
呵呵 啥叫“讨论过的”?你讨论过的,就会成为事实?

请出示原文

你自己去翻一下。

小朋友不能这么懒的。
持不同股见者...
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发表于 2018-12-16 14:33 |显示全部楼层
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hornsay 发表于 2018-12-16 15:28
你自己去翻一下。

小朋友不能这么懒的。

你老人家不诚实
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发表于 2018-12-16 15:23 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 Hetbert 于 2018-12-16 17:43 编辑
icelemontea 发表于 2018-12-16 14:07
"法庭上有三种真相,一是辩方的真相,二是控方的真相,三是真相本身,谁的真相能说服陪审团,谁就是最大的 ...


真実はいつもひとつ!

柯南总是这么说。。。

但是,现实世界里,真是人生如戏。。。

检方的“真实”比辩方的“真实”更真实。

定罪的最低要求是,检方版本的“真实”,让陪审团觉得没毛病。



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发表于 2018-12-16 15:23 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 Hetbert 于 2018-12-16 16:28 编辑

不知道警方是如何排除毒品这条线索的。

真实世界里,谁导致毒品损失,谁就要赔偿,不赔就血偿。

林向警方举报了毒贩的可疑包裹,导致黑帮金钱损失,要是墨西哥或者南美国家,肯定是要被Cartel分尸灭门的。
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发表于 2018-12-16 15:42 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 15:24
原文你可以继续找
稍微用脑想一下就知道了,作案时间范围越长,对控方越有利,这就是前三审检方坚持作案 ...

Activity in the Boundary Road Premises After the Lin Family Returned on 17 July 2009 (CCS [17])

Henry Lin chatted online to a friend on MSN until the friend signed out at about 11.40 pm that night. Computer records show that the computer was turned off at 00:01:38.

A Dark Night (CCS [18])

The night of 17 July and the early hours of 18 July 2009 were dark. At 2.00 am, there was virtually no moon (moon rise was at 02:43 and moon set at 12:46). At its peak in the sky, only 23% of the moon was visible. The Boundary Road premises were likely in darkness as the electricity switch was off.

The Manner, Order and Time of Death of the Deceased Persons (CCS [18]-[24])

The Crown case is that the killer necessarily had knowledge of the layout of the home in order to be able to successfully navigate it in darkness.

All of the deceased were found dead in their respective bedrooms. All were on or near their beds. All had obvious and significant wounds to their head and face.

The Crown case is that there is an overwhelming inference that each deceased was quickly incapacitated. The concentration of blunt force injury to the head and face, together with asphyxial injuries, indicate that there may have been action taken to prevent the deceased from vocalising. The Crown contends that there is an available inference that all of the deceased were attacked whilst they were asleep, rather than earlier in the evening.

There was no disturbance of any items in the adults’ rooms to suggest a struggle whilst they were awake. There were no items out of place down stairs.

In relation to the time of the deaths, the Crown relies upon circumstantial evidence as to when the deceased were last seen alive. Henry finished his chat session on the computer in his bedroom at 11.40 pm and the computer was turned off shortly after midnight. Min Lin did not attend the newsagency early on Saturday morning. The Crown contends that this period includes the time period when the Accused had an opportunity to commit the crimes, that is after 2.00 am.

A next-door neighbour, Janelle Wraith, of 53 Boundary Road, was awake until 1.00 am. She described herself as a light sleeper and she did not hear anything that night. The Crown contends that there is an available inference that there was very little noise during the attack as the deceased were attacked unawares in their beds. It is said that the logical inference is that the deaths occurred in the early hours of the morning.

Blood spatter and DNA evidence was considered by Detective Sergeant Harkins, an expert in blood stain analysis. The Crown contends that this evidence indicates the order of the deaths. It is said to illustrate that the killer had prior knowledge regarding which bedrooms various people were sleeping in and knew which to target first, in order to minimise the risk of opposition.

If the lights were off and the killer made a check once inside the house, the Crown contends that this would have been difficult to discern without running the risk of waking the occupants.

The Crown contends that the person most likely to offer significant resistance, Min Lin, was killed first, together with his wife, Lily Lin. The killer would also have known he first picked the room with two adults and to disable those people quickly. The Crown contends that it is extremely likely that the severe injuries to the heads of the deceased would have been readily incapacitating.

The Crown submits that the other adult in the house, Irene Lin, was attacked next. She represented the next highest threat.

This was followed by the attack on the two boys who would have been the easiest to subdue. Even they were killed in their bedroom, indicating that the murder of the three adults did not awaken them in time to exit their bedrooms.

The Crown contends that the lack of blood evidence in or near Ms AB’s room, from either shoe impressions or blood smears on the door handles, provides an available inference that the killer had knowledge that Ms AB was away. The Crown says that for a person outside the family, with no prior knowledge of the layout of the bedrooms to go into them to see who was there, would have posed an unacceptable risk of waking the occupants and raising the risk of serious opposition. According to the Crown, the absence of this makes it highly unlikely that the assailant needed to explore the house.

There were impressions from only one type of shoe (other than those from police boots consistent with having been deposited during the discovery of the bodies and initial investigation of the crime scene).
你所说的死亡时间界定为何是2:00am之后,我所看到的庭审文件表述得很清晰,所以你所谓的谢2点关机,我是没有在哪个庭审文件上看到过,如果确实有,麻烦你也贴一下。说实话,如果不参考无法取证的“据说”,案子其实很清晰.

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发表于 2018-12-16 15:53 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 stellawan 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 stellawan 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
猫儿不笨 发表于 2018-12-16 15:24
原文你可以继续找
稍微用脑想一下就知道了,作案时间范围越长,对控方越有利,这就是前三审检方坚持作案 ...

Events on Evening of Friday, 17 July 2009 (CCS [13]-[16])

On Friday, 17 July 2009, Min Lin, Terry Lin and Henry Lin attended a family dinner at Min Lin’s parents’ unit at 10 Birmingham Street, Merrylands. Also in attendance were the Accused, Kathy Lin and their son, "James". A dinner of this type was a regular occurrence in the life of the Lin family and that of the Accused.

Lily Lin and Irene Lin did not attend the family dinner. As mentioned, Ms AB was overseas on a school excursion.

Min Lin left the Merrylands apartment at about 9.00 pm. Terry and Henry Lin left at around 10.00 pm with the Accused, his wife and son. They returned to North Epping in the Lin family vehicle, a silver/grey Toyota Kluger driven by the Accused.

According to Kathy Lin, the vehicle returned to the garage at the Boundary Road premises at about 10.30 pm. Kathy Lin states that Terry and Henry Lin entered the house. She told police that there were no lights on upstairs, but there was a light on in the dining area when she dropped the children home at 10.30 pm. The front door was unlocked at that time. She did not turn lights off as she left. She locked and checked the front door of the Boundary Road premises as she left.

The Accused told his father-in-law that he had told Henry and Terry to be quiet because the parents must be asleep as the lights were on downstairs, but not upstairs. He told police that there was no light on in the lounge room downstairs, and said that normally it was not on. The Accused said that his wife would normally turn the light on when she went inside and it would then be bright. The Accused said that his wife did not do that on this evening and he was sure about this.

Kathy Lin, the Accused and "James" then went to their own car, a Toyota Corolla, which had previously been parked at the Boundary Road premises. They drove the short distance to their home at the Beck Street premises.

你所说的三审检察官坚持作案时间是9:30pm-次日9:00am,我也想你提供一下原文,因为你的描述和我看到的庭审记录是有抵触的,kathy和谢是在当夜10:30pm左右送两个孩子回到epping家中,并且kathy有进入房子.
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发表于 2018-12-16 16:17 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 hotornot 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 hotornot 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
stellawan 发表于 2018-12-16 16:53
Events on Evening of Friday, 17 July 2009 (CCS [13]-[16])

On Friday, 17 July 2009, Min Lin, Terry ...
你所说的三审检察官坚持作案时间是9:30pm-次日9:00am,我也想你提供一下原文,因为你的描述和我看到的庭审记录是有抵触的,kathy和谢是在当夜10:30pm左右送两个孩子回到epping家中,并且kathy有进入房子.


呵呵

检方的证据即使不是铁证如山,也是非常有说服力的

而那些絮絮叨叨、一心想推翻法庭判决的人,却在毫无根据的捏造事实,真是很奇怪
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发表于 2018-12-16 16:23 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Hetbert 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Hetbert 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
根据检方对凶器的描述,我估计是类似下面这根铁棒的武器,便于携带隐藏,不容易引起注意。

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