谁有自助退休基金 SMSF 呢？

ialienam

謝謝..

那請問一下 如果我用esuperfund, 然後買bond & managed funds.. 當然沒透過Commsec or ebroking..  For example, 我自己去Blackrock and Vanguard買兩檔不同的managed funds.
然後自己有多開一兩個不同bank term deposit, say with RaboDirect.

那這樣esuperfund也是可以幫我做audit & tax return? 也是算$699 annual fee? 我這樣要提供給esuperfund什東西嗎?
If I understand correctly, if I trade with Commsec or ebroking, then I wouldn't need to supply any tax statement, right? You guys have the auto-data feed.

Mandy_Law

可以的，这种情况我们也可以做. 也算是699年费。如果买managed funds,通常需要提供在SMSF 名下的 transaction statement, distribution statement, annual tax statement。如果通过Commsec or ebroking 交易的listed shares/units, 我们可以直接得到大部分数据，但有时候也需要提供一些documentation,比如dividend reinvestment statement or annual tax statement.

chenjianmti

mark

james988

SMSF如果borrow的话只能是limited recourse loan而不是non-recourse loan 或者non record loan.
limited recourse borrowing arrangement 或者limited recourse loan 是指借出方只享有limited claims on the loan in the event of default.这样就保护了贷款方的其他资产不会被银行拿来抵押活支付贷款。SMSF borrow的话只能够用limited recourse loan。因此如果用SMSF投资房产的话，一般银行只借70%。如果SMSF borrow的话，必须要成立一个形式上的公司来持有这个有贷款的property。不可以用individual trustees,所有的个人要变成这个公司（也就是corporate trustee)的directors.

另外看到有网友想把自己的commercial property转让给自己的smsf.这可以通过sale 或者contribution的形式。但是前提条件是这个commercial property必须是business real property，也就是说这个property要完全的和全部的用于商业用途。如果是前面是商店后面是住家的话这是绝对不可以的。
如果一年的房租超过$75,000，你的smsf就要成立形式上的公司并且注册GST.

楼上有人说自己做administration找人做audit 和annual return就要$1,600左右，而且还没有pension administration。 这样的话我建议你不如找Cavendish来做administration，同样的钱更省事，还可以至少保证你的compliance.不过我不是这家公司的。当然要是你的smsf里总共有超过$0.5m并且自己想轻松一点的话我就推荐我们公司啦 ：）

另外上面有人说自己管SMSF的话40岁就可以拿养老金，这要具体讲。如果你的SUPER benefits里面有 unrestricted non preserved的benefits, 你什么时候都可以把这部分取出来不受限制不会有compliance的问题。但是正常情况是一个40岁的人不太可能有这一类的benefits，当所有的benefits都是preserved （preserved的意思是只有你达到了一定年龄－preservation age,现在是55岁你才可以取部分钱）你是绝对不可以从super里面取养老金的，除非这个人达到了condition of release，比如说一个人暂时的身体上的不便不能工作等等。但这些都需要提供充分的证明。 现在ATO已经意识到很多人自管养老金然后提前把钱取出来，这一直是ATO这两年来工作严打的对象。

总的来说，如果夫妻双方总共的养老金不超过$100,000的话，不是很有必要做SMSF。当然如果你自己是会计，懂投资或者对这方面相当有兴趣的另当别论。因为自己作为trustee管理super对很多的compliance issue要keep up to date.

原帖由 ialienam 于 2011-10-8 15:02 发表
多謝..正確講法是non-recourse loan
不過小弟有個不中聽的話.. non-record loan是口語化.. 如果你不信 可以google, 更可以打電話去RBS問問..

Non-recourse也就是說如果這loan default, 不會record到任何東西 更不 ...

ialienam

很少看到寫SMSF能detail的, 謝謝分享.

$1600應該算market price?? Cavendish我看了一下也差不多$1650 但audit另外算?
這價錢應該都是你做所有的transaction都送給accountant他們來幫你處理, 不用還要自己準備?

kuxxc

Rabodirect is now also marketing their SMSF product where people can choose the level of their involvement with the day-to-day administration of their fund. The standard fees looks excessive tho.

To have Cavendish do all the administration (optional) it'll cost $2,880 per annum  or $240 per month!! Are they for real?

http://www.rabodirect.com.au/smsf/default.aspx?WT.svl=hdr

ialienam

$2,880 is slightly above market rate, but I know a lot of firms charge that.

但會收$2,880是應該有advice.. guarantee compliance之類.
應該就是差別服務.. 他們有專門的人幫你收信, they take care all transactions recording.
esuperfund就應該都是DIY, 什breach contribution cap etc就都要自己update.

不過聽完Mandy解說, 我最初以為esuperfund只接受commsec & ebroking.. 聽起來用別的trading platform也ok? 如果這樣的話, no one can beat that price for sure.

樓主, 目前SMSF用起來還ok?

kuxxc

》樓主, 目前SMSF用起來還ok?

还没rollover。 这几天吧。世界经济快要跨了。。。在不rollover 我会睡不着～

MU

只能说good luck了。。明年的经济。。把握好自己手里的钱吧

james988

说实话我对Cavendish也不不是很熟悉，但是知道他们的administration fee包括account preparation的。但是刚刚查了一下他们的网站，他们的AUDIT是另外收费的。而且好像你ROLLOVER的话他们也单独计费。不过一般的SMSF公司对full administration都是收1%左右，像DIXON就是有cap的，所以super benefits 越多用SMSF越划算。

希望以下几点关于ROLLOVER的注意事项对有需要的TX们有帮助：

1. 有的SMSF 公司按照rollover 的 笔数收钱，这样的话最好用full rollover而不是partial rollover.

2. 如果你的super 里面有life insurance，先确定自己是不是还要保留你的insurance还是用smsf购买life insurance.用SMSF购买life insurance的好处是life insurance 或者TPD(any occupation) 可以fully deductible。但是要求life insurance 的policy holder必须是SMSF，而不是trustee.如果决定要保留原super里的life insurance,最好看SUPER公司关于最低金额和以后contribution的要求。

3. 如果选择partial rollover，看你的super 公司一年可以允许几次partial rollover.有的只允许两次并且有最低金额的限制，有的随便你rollover多少次都可以。

4. Dividends payments, 有的super 公司只在一年内的某段时间把你账户投资的franking dividends打到你账户上， 比如Macquarie。如果你在这之前把钱转出来，你就收不到franking credits了。

5. rollover 的话，你有可能会out of market for up to 28 days。如果在同一件SUPER公司有多种投资产品并且选择partial  rollover的话，自己看选择什么投资产品出售来rollover从税务方面对自己最有利,你的super公司不会考虑这方面的问题，只会随便挑一项产品出售。他们挑选的产品可能 不是你最好的选择。

当然以下两项是最重要的：
1.现在的super 都会用SMSF Lookup 查你的SMSF是否是compliant.在申请rollover之前自己到这个地址（http://superfundlookup.gov.au/)看看你的SMSF的状态是否是compliant,如果是新成立的SMSF还没有lodge国annual return的，那么你的SMSF是被视作compliant的。另外看看你的SMSF在ATO的资料是否齐全，否则的话你的SUPER公司会拒绝给你ROLLOVER.

2. 检查你的SUPER公司发给你的最近的member statements,看看你的个人资料以及家庭住址电话是否都正确，是否和你的SMSF的资料相同。如果不同，先改正了在申请rollover.

[ 本帖最后由 james988 于 2012-1-1 11:56 编辑 ]

kuxxc

Thank James for the detailed explanation.

A question for Mandy (and maybe James knows too) -
If I make a contribution to my SMSF (esuperfund), do I submit the 15% tax myself?

I've deposited some money into SMSF's ANZ Cash account but they didn't take the contribution tax off. I'm assuming I need to do that myself...

ialienam

15% contribution tax要自己付..cash account裡面的錢不要全都花完了..

當然就也要記錄一下自己放的錢 (pre-tax or after-tax).

kuxxc

原帖由 ialienam 于 2012-1-2 15:06 发表
15% contribution tax要自己付..cash account裡面的錢不要全都花完了..

當然就也要記錄一下自己放的錢 (pre-tax or after-tax).

Thanks ialienam!!

Then, do I pay ATO out of my SMSF account periodically, or is this the function of esuperfund at the end of every year, and I never really need to pay tax as such until I receive a Tax Assessment notice?

ialienam

I think it's more end of financial year. But better check with Mandy (esuperfund).

yah一般的super fund都已經會幫你先做好, so you no need to worry.

說到這裡也還有一個小差別 anti-detriment payment.
主要就是以後如果super owner去世, super fund裡的錢pass給beneficiary時會外加15% tax on taxable component.

這部分一般現在很多super funds都會有提供, 而我知道一般SMSF的trustee是不會先做個動作.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/ ... rgac6-1225932963997
這個article有簡單的解說一下什是anti-detriment payment.

不過這部分算是estate planning, 以後還是可以maximise tax benefit for your dependent.

闲人甲

mark

Mandy_Law

It actually depends on the contribution type: Concessional Contributions or Non-Concessional Contributions.

Concessional Contributions are contributions where a tax deduction has been claimed, either by the Member or by an Employer.  Tax is payable on Concessional Contributions made into a SMSF at the rate of 15%. If you are using Esuperfund, you do not need to pay ATO periodically. Instead, we lodge annual tax return for your SMSF to ATO. To claim a Tax Deduction on that Contribution you will need to complete an ATO Tax Deduction Form evidencing the Tax Deduction.

Personal Contributions made into a SMSF from after tax income on which no tax deduction is claimed are known as Non Concessional Contributions.  Non Concessional Contributions are essentially personal contributions made into your SMSF from your own personal Bank Account and not from your Employer.
No tax is ever payable on a Non Concessional Contribution made into a SMSF either when the monies are contributed into the SMSF or when monies are accessed later on at retirement.

kuxxc

Thanks Mandy. I wasn't clear enough with my question - That was a Salary Sacrifice contribution, so I take it that it's Concessional. Happy to know I don't have other obligation to fulfil re paying tax as soon as I made that "sacrifice".

My next question is, how do esuperfund know which credit is concessional, which is not? Because all I did is direct bank transfer, either from my company bank account (salsac) or my personal account (non-concessional). Also how do esuperfund knows it's a roll-over from other fund?

Thanks again.

Mandy_Law

-Yes, the salary sacrifice falls into the category of concessional contribution.

-When you are using Esuperfund, you are supposed to use our website and submit an online checklist where you can denote your contribution type and the nature of each and every transaction you make. The definition of contribution categories can be found on our website. You also need to provide the supporting documentation if necessary.

For example, if you denote an amount as personal concessional contribution, you need to provide the tax deduction form. If you denote an amount as rollover from other superfunds, you need to provide the rollover benefits statement detailing the tax components of the amount.

Regarding contribution category, please note there is maximum amount allowed. For detailed information, please visit our website or find us on our social media platforms.

kuxxc

>When you are using Esuperfund, you are supposed to use our website and submit an online checklist where you can denote your contribution type and the nature of each and every transaction you make. The definition of contribution categories can be found on our website. You also need to provide the supporting documentation if necessary.

Confused. Did you mean check your web site to see what I need to do to fulfil my obligation, or log-in and denote each transaction type and submit to you (what you sounded like saying). Now I can see there's a "Checklist Login" link on top right of the site. However I punched in my V2 account number and it says invalid username / password.

Until now I don't know such facility exists!~  Is it a failure on esuperfund to inform me (I read thru all the letters you sent me - I think) or my oversight? Something to feed back to your boss perhaps. :)

"Checklist Login" is also such a misnomer. Not that I know what it does yet. The name doesn't suggest it's somewhere you can denote a payment type...

Anyway thanks for the info and sorry it lead to more questions! ;)

Yes am aware of the 25k limit. Thanks again!

kuxxc

On further reading, I think you meant we only do the checklist once a year, perhaps a couple of months before tax return time. It's not an on-going thing.

If so now it makes a little more sense... and I think the system isn't open to my account to log in yet since my fund has just been established last month!?

wmwbull

找专业的。。。

Mandy_Law

In your case, you will receive email notice with login details from Esuperfund AFTER 30/06/2012 to complete and submit your online checklist. As you said, it's not an on-going thing, and you just need to do once a year.

You cannot login yet because 2012 financial year hasn't finished.

kuxxc

Thanks Mandy! Are you doing this from work? I hope you are. :)

新澳之旅

这个好帖子一定要顶

关晓冬

请问用smsf买房子，可以连同NRAS (政府的租房奖励么）。譬如说，如果我用smsf买个NRAS计划内的房子，政府的奖励可以进到smsf账上么？

另外再请问，公司付的super可以直接进smsf么?还是要转到手。

还有个问题，family trust 和smsf有什么区别？

现在纠结要不要做这个呢。大师们，我先在这谢谢了。

ialienam

1. 應該是可以..
http://thedunnthing.com/2010/07/ ... -scheme-with-smsfs/
But you need to consult the right professionals before making your decision.
基本上一般買房一樣, SMSF trustee是這個property owner, all benefits & costs go to the SMSF trustee..
其實很多人也會誤會SMSF (Self managed super fund).. 字面上看起來Self好像就變成自己的東西 (很多人就從SMSF裡面拿錢出來用), 但SMSF和自己本身是separate entity.

2. 公司的super contribution是直接到SMSF, 前面其他朋友回文有寫到. 所有的contribution都進到SMSF, just make sure you don't breach the cap.
SMSF你就會有個cash account, 所有的contributions & expenses都是在這cash account進去, 一般妳公司要cheque, direct debit or bpay等都可以.

3. 看個人情況. 最大差別應該是tax structure.
Family trust 是30%
Super是15%, 還有最主要以後退休(轉pension)後不用交capital gain tax...但是當然super裡面的錢要等到你meet the condition of release才能拿.

所以這兩個東西沒辦法說哪一個比較好, 看個人情況. 各有各的好處和壞處.
這裡有一個大概的比較
http://www.evolvemysuper.com.au/ ... mily-trust-or-smsf/

個人覺得如果一般PAYG, 沒有特別情況下family trust工用不大.
SMSF - 我會從兩個角度來看.
a. 如果個人/家庭super balance沒有很大的話, 我覺得沒必要.
b. 知不知道自己到底要做什? esuperfund的確讓很多小金額的super balance也可以很便宜的做SMSF, 但就很多東西都要自己DIY, 所以如果沒有很願意花時間research (像樓主就都很願意自己來做). 我也不是很建議. 要開SMSF大部份都是滿會投資和願意花時間瞭解的investors會考慮...

但澳洲也有個現象, SMSF裡面有很高的%都是在cash.. 我也遇過很多客戶開了smsf, 卻把錢都放在cash下面.. 那老實說這樣子就不用開smsf.
因為只放cash. 外面一般super fund都可以幾乎免費幫你做..  你自己還不用擔心一堆compliance問題.

所以看個人情況, 但真的建議不管開family trust or smsf最好找專業質詢.. Accountant會給你稅務上比較, 但他們不能講投資的東西 (unless they are accredited too).. 因為法律東西年年會更新.

下面的人做多幫忙補充..如果有寫錯, 麻煩提醒一下.

kuxxc

>还有个问题，family trust 和smsf有什么区别？

SMSF is a form of trust in terms of its legal structure.
You use family trust when there are tax benefit in distributing your income and/or you want to protect  your assets.
You use SMSF only to pay your super into it and save for your retirement.

If you're asking this sort of questions, my feeling is SMSF is probably not for you, unless you have an expert to do everything for you. But don't let that discourage you - if you're interested in managing your own finance, keep studying/reading/asking questions...

西门吹哨

按照大家的讨论看，SMSF的每年最低cash成本在695$，time & compliance成本另计。另外最好super账户里面有一定数额的积累以及SMSF的owner有不断学习和了解政策的热情以及有一定的投资经验。

ialienam

100% agree with Kuxxc, SMSF is more for your retirement saving, so if you want to have easy access to your funds, SMSF may not be for you.
Kuxxc is right, if you willing to learn..go for it, if you good with investment, good to do it yourself, as you can 100% commit to your own money.

差不多..esuperfund應該是市場上最低.. $699 + ATO levy..Compliance如果你都用它們的應該都ok..of course, 剩下你要自己做, 如果你多放錢進去, over the cap for example.. That's your problem.

當初Govt會有SmsF 就也說如果有人喜歡自己來投資..就當然自己來.. 要是不知道如何投資, 開了SMSF有合用?

Mandy_Law

关于SMSF是否适合你的问题，可以去我们的blog看一下。我们有专门的博文探讨该话题，大家可以访问Esuperfund的网站，右下角有很多social media 平台包括facebook 和blog. 如果大家想学习关于SMSF的知识，欢迎关注我们并提问。:)