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楼主:angelaleewi99

[其他讨论] [学习帖]投资房租金是否可以放在自住房offset对冲自主房利息 [复制链接]

发表于 2014-4-17 11:06 |显示全部楼层
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yourock 发表于 2014-4-17 10:50
你说的是租金小于利息。如果租金高于利息呢?
比如,你租金是600,利息是500。剩下的100去哪里? ...

如果是赚了100的话,就跟负扣税(NG)没关系了。投资房在ATO眼里相当于不存在了。

不管怎样,投资房account不能被污染。也就是说只能入不能出(除了银行从里面拿利息)。至于什么时候入,入多少,没人管。
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发表于 2014-4-17 11:08 |显示全部楼层
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Echo0531 发表于 2014-4-17 10:14
what happened if I put the rent in the offset acc, and withdraw and use for other daily expense?

In practical, the interest will need apportioned between private and investment

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CPA&REG TAX AGENT

发表于 2014-4-17 11:10 |显示全部楼层
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http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/vie ... R9822/nat/ato/00001

TR 98/22 Income tax: the taxation consequences for taxpayers entering into certain linked or split loan facilities


5. The facility has a number of broad features. There may be one or more borrowers within that facility. A taxpayer borrows an amount or amounts of money ('the loan amount'). The contract/s between the taxpayer and the lender provides that the loan amount is allocated between two or more accounts or loans. The contract further provides that at least one account or loan is for private purposes ('private account') and the other/s is for business or income producing purposes ('investment account'). The lender sets the minimum loan payment at the amount required to pay back the loan amount on a principal and interest basis over the nominated period. The taxpayer applies the payments first to pay the principal and interest on the private account and, when the private account is extinguished, the payments are then made against the investment account. As a result, the taxpayer pays off the private account much faster, and the total amount of interest paid on the private account is less than would have been the case if the taxpayer had applied the payments to the separate accounts. Correspondingly, the investment account takes longer to pay off and more interest is payable on that account. The difference between the interest incurred on the investment account under the facility and the interest that would have been incurred if the taxpayer had applied the payments to the separate accounts is referred to as 'additional interest'.

6. Interest in respect of the investment account is accumulated and capitalised during the period that the private account is being repaid. The interest calculation for each month uses a higher balance as its starting point. In consequence, the account balance grows at ever increasing rates as interest on principal and interest on interest is added to the loan. Generally, the additional interest (which is claimed to be tax deductible) that is payable on the investment account is equal to or approximate to the extra amount of non-deductible interest the taxpayer would have paid on the private account if a payment had not been redirected from the investment account to the private account. The taxpayer's total outstanding debt does not increase. In the early years of the facility the taxpayer claims a deduction for the capitalised interest even though no payments are made in respect of the investment account.

7. Where a taxpayer does not make any payments on the investment account, interest accrues on both the unpaid principal sum and the unpaid interest. In this Ruling, we refer to the total interest that has accrued on the investment account during the period that all payments are directed to the private account as 'capitalised interest', and the portion of this interest that has accrued on the unpaid interest in the relevant year as 'the further interest amount'.


上面有些专业人士真是误导。我认为这里说的和LZ问的根本不是一码事。这个文件的中心思想是根关于split of loan的:

1. 如果你把投资房借出来的钱作为私人用途,你不能把这部分作私人用途的钱的利息抵税。
2. 你不能使用这种产品:不还投资房借款产生的利息,而是把利息再加到投资房的贷款本金上,导致你投资房的借款本金越来越高,也就是可以抵扣的利息越来越高。

发表于 2014-4-17 11:19 |显示全部楼层
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lz在clarify以下问题,就好像楼上有同学所说的,在NG的情况下, 比如每周 rent 400, 利息500

1)毫无污染的方法(肯定合法):
rent 400每周入投资房loan 对应offset,月底银行charge利息之前把不足的钱(100x4weeks)补进投资房loan的offset

2)现在讨论的是否合法的方法(也就是lz要问的):
rent 400每周入自住房loan 对应offset,月底银行charge利息之前把500x4weeks的钱补进投资房loan的offset,这样的好处就是这个月400每周的租金可以抵冲你自主房的loan的利息

发表于 2014-4-17 11:21 |显示全部楼层
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angelaleewi99 发表于 2014-4-17 11:19
lz在clarify以下问题,就好像楼上有同学所说的,在NG的情况下, 比如每周 rent 400, 利息500

1)毫无污染 ...

第二种没有任何问题啊。

发表于 2014-4-17 11:25 |显示全部楼层
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第二种当然没问题啦
房租是收入,都合法报过税了
就和你把工资用在投资还是自住的offset一样,是你自己的自由
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发表于 2014-4-17 11:32 |显示全部楼层
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y12345678 发表于 2014-4-17 11:25
第二种当然没问题啦
房租是收入,都合法报过税了
就和你把工资用在投资还是自住的offset一样,是你自己的自 ...

没问题。专业人士在这里故意误导,又该当何罪?

发表于 2014-4-17 11:58 |显示全部楼层
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估计是专业人士比较忙,压根儿就没有仔细看问题吧

发表于 2014-4-17 12:52 |显示全部楼层
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offset is saving account.

发表于 2014-4-17 13:04 |显示全部楼层
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yourock 发表于 2014-4-17 11:10
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/vie ... R9822/nat/ato/00001

TR 98/22 Income tax: the taxat ...


I said this is similar principle of rule. not said this is 100% as LZ asked

Principle rule of rent must go to investment loan account or account link to investment offset.

if rent go to private loan account, interest will need apportion becoz LZ did not reduce the loan of investment and capitalised interest as much as he can. this is call tax scheme .

I just provide basic advice if you think I am wrong u can show me why I am wrong use ato ruling. or you can discuss with your accountant

I am happy to learn really. No one is always right
CPA&REG TAX AGENT

发表于 2014-4-17 13:10 |显示全部楼层
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If it is an ordinary loan with offset, you can take your rent away to put into your other account, as long as you keep your rental income schedule and expenses claims, the interest on your loan of investment property still can be deductible, of course this is only generally speaking.
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发表于 2014-4-17 13:15 |显示全部楼层
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yourock 发表于 2014-4-17 10:10
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR9822/nat/ato/00001

TR 98/22 Income tax: the taxat ...

I agree with what you said, if you move your rental income out from your loan, the interest from original loan for your investment property still deductible and of course you want to maximize it so you move your cash out, and of course you want to minimize your interest on your pr property, nothing wrong with it. it doesn't affect deductibility of your interest on your original investment property.

This is how I understand what LZ have asked.  
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发表于 2014-4-17 13:17 |显示全部楼层
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LENNY_DONG 发表于 2014-4-17 12:04
I said this is similar principle of rule. not said this is 100% as LZ asked

Principle rule of ren ...

Mate, I think you are right about what you explained, but I don't think your answer what LZ have asked.

I think that's where the confusion is coming from.
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发表于 2014-4-17 13:20 |显示全部楼层
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LENNY_DONG 发表于 2014-4-17 11:08
In practical, the interest will need apportioned between private and investment

I understand the actual loan acc needs to apportioned? but I mean offset acc?

发表于 2014-4-17 13:38 |显示全部楼层
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f18 发表于 2014-4-17 13:17
Mate, I think you are right about what you explained, but I don't think your answer what LZ have a ...

http://smh.domain.com.au/home-in ... 20120425-1xkou.html

Mate, That is LZ ask and what I want to explain
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发表于 2014-4-17 13:39 |显示全部楼层
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yourock 发表于 2014-4-17 11:10
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR9822/nat/ato/00001

TR 98/22 Income tax: the taxat ...

http://smh.domain.com.au/home-in ... 20120425-1xkou.html

Finally find the link, Hope this is right
CPA&REG TAX AGENT
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发表于 2014-4-17 13:49 |显示全部楼层
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LENNY_DONG 发表于 2014-4-17 12:39
http://smh.domain.com.au/home-investor-centre/alarm-as-taxman-takes-interest-in-property-investors ...

Thanks for the link Lenny, nice post, there should be a lot of thoughts to it , especially for accountant's tax planning.
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发表于 2014-4-17 14:08 |显示全部楼层
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都是大神。。。lz根据各位的讨论得出的结论就是安全起见走 “1)毫无污染的方法”

发表于 2014-4-17 14:17 |显示全部楼层
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put in home loan acoount or offset account?
if choose pay interest only

发表于 2014-4-17 14:36 |显示全部楼层
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这个很有用啊。。
也就是说: 租金要直接转到投资房的冲销账户去? 不够的从其他账户转入,但是不能转出?
如果之前这么做了,会怎么样?( 这方面不清楚)

发表于 2014-4-17 17:44 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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The key here is to pay off your interest expense on the investment loan every month and not capitalised them (hence your investment loan getting bigger).  You only be in trouble if you dont paid off the interest on the investment loan.
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发表于 2014-4-17 22:01 |显示全部楼层
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LENNY_DONG 发表于 2014-4-17 13:39
http://smh.domain.com.au/home-in ... -property-investors ...

Property owners using some or all of the rental income from an investment property to pay off their own home loan while adding the interest from the investment loan to the principal and claiming it as a deduction would come under scrutiny, accountants BDO said.

''Any loan arrangement that incorporates features that would effectively give rise to the capitalisation of interest on an investment loan while the loan repayments are used to pay down the principal of a private loan is now under the spotlight,'' he said.


这里说的很清楚,"adding the interest from the investment loan to the principal", 不还投资房贷款的利息而是把那部分利息欠款滚动到贷款本金上,税务抵扣的时候却要抵扣这部分利息,这样做是不允许的。这和第一页的税务局文件一致。哪里说投资房的rent必须放到投资房贷款的offset里了?

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发表于 2014-4-17 22:08 |显示全部楼层
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yourock 发表于 2014-4-17 22:01
这里说的很清楚,"adding the interest from the investment loan to the principal", 不还投资房贷 ...

Property owners using some or all of the rental income from an investment property to pay off their own home loan while adding the interest from the investment loan to the principal and claiming it as a deduction would come under scrutiny, accountants BDO said.
CPA&REG TAX AGENT

发表于 2014-4-18 07:15 |显示全部楼层
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yourock 发表于 2014-4-17 22:01
这里说的很清楚,"adding the interest from the investment loan to the principal", 不还投资房贷 ...

I agree..

"Property owners using some or all of the rental income from an investment property to pay off their own home loan while adding the interest from the investment loan to the principal and claiming it as a deduction".

This line should be read as one statement, with two conditions.
1.  All rental income is used to pay off their own home loan, AND
2.  Interest from the investment loan are not paid off and being add to the principal of investment loan.

Only if someone does these two together that they are in trouble.

"If you drink and drive, you are a bloody idiot".
If you drink, not a problem.  But if you drink and/[while] drive, then there is a problem.



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