正现金流买房可行性分析

黑山老妖

你是说应该是EBITBA？

但是缴税的时候肯定是你自己算好了收支以后报一个最后的盈利上去。税务局不会说你报个收入，我帮你算开支吧？

黑山老妖

算了，不和你探讨这个问题了。没有底的。

hsqhugh

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-11-15 08:34
算了，不和你探讨这个问题了。没有底的。

嗯。税务上的事我不熟的。

我刚刚只是从投资角度讲。税务上的事我不参与啦

黑山老妖

newtoall 发表于 2012-11-15 08:19
Hi, 老妖 ,

How do you calculate gross and net return of properties with mortgages ?

Personally I would include all costs. Including the initial down payment.

newtoall

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-11-15 11:15
你的gross计算方法是从投资的角度看的。
我是从税务角度看的，觉得gross应该是税前的收入刨除所有开支。
...

For the 利息, do you consider the full cost ?  or only the loan cost ?

full cost :  full price of the property + fee (stamp duty etc)

If yes, how do you calculate the interest rate of those down payment?

黑山老妖

newtoall 发表于 2012-11-15 11:00
For the 利息, do you consider the full cost ?  or only the loan cost ?

full cost :  full price of ...

Yes I do factor in all costs. Including stamp duty, solicitor fees, down payment etc etc.

newtoall

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-11-15 12:01
Yes I do factor in all costs. Including stamp duty, solicitor fees, down payment etc etc.

Good, suppose you have put all the cost as the same as your mortgage rate? And use EBITA

What is the appox of your investment ROI  now ?

In melbourne using above calculation considering full cost, most of houses (property with land) will be less than 3% even 2%.

黑山老妖

I don't do EBITA because I am no accountant.

I just work out my profit / loss after personal tax. ROI need to be looked at by comparing with other investments.

Yes the ROI might be 2-3%, but you need to consider the leverage effect. That 2-3% is on the whole investment, where you only put in 10-20%. Which makes your real ROI to be ~10-30% - interest payment of course.

With property investments, you need to look into long term. I guess positive cashflow is good, but capital gain is the ultimate goal. If you can get both then good on you for finding a gem.

myfuturezhang

hsqhugh 发表于 2012-11-15 11:06
我倒觉得gross挺好定义，
就是每年rent/房价*100%
不考虑税费。

如果这么算的话,悉尼好多区都是正现金流.

hsqhugh

myfuturezhang 发表于 2012-11-15 09:12
如果这么算的话,悉尼好多区都是正现金流.

我说的是“如何评估一个房子”这个角度。 可能和你们讨论的不是一回事。算是无意中来捣乱了一次

640

我看无论从哪个角度，哪个说法, 减去所有费用每周有现金多出来的就是positive cash flow.

同时不应该计算前期一次性的费用。

jasonliu234

sydneydodo 发表于 2012-11-15 08:29
我的理解是
（租金— 税收） 》（成本（基本就是利息了）
不就好了？

税收。。

银行利息也要收税的

而且，如果缴所得税，说明已经是正现金流了。

成本费用，指其他成本，律师费，中介费用，政府印花税，strata如果是apt，房屋保险，维修，council fee。。。

租金减去这些费用之后 再和银行利息比。

mxgong

对于一个投资房来说，多多的 GROSS 计算方法是最直观的。因为就这房子的本身，撇开个人因素。 当觉得房子不错时候再算自己的个人因素。

老妖的也不错，不过当有人问起的时候， 你就要说，定义很多，每个人情况都不一样，。etc 。。所以对于不是很懂的人来说，等于没说。

我随口说说。别拍我， 我什么都不懂。

jasonliu234

正现金流 究竟什么定义?

有房租，就足够了吗？

天行健

个人认为gross就是租金/房子买的时候的价格*100

也应该这么算，算net的话，拿出来给别人看没什么意义。

gordonye2000

去年追加一套2+2+1的unit在westmead $395k, 下月涨租到500，不知道是否正现金流？感觉那里还有潜力。

黑山老妖

gordonye2000 发表于 2012-11-15 12:44
去年追加一套2+2+1的unit在westmead $395k, 下月涨租到500，不知道是否正现金流？感觉那里还有潜力。 ...

你确定是unit 不是apartment?

true100

学习

sydneydodo

自己发的帖子已经进展到自己看不懂了

simplyjean

我从来都是比较net, 因为这个才有可比性，特别是strata的高低还是有很重的影响。税收考虑的少，我尽量把税前现金出入控制在0，税上如果能有优惠，例如退税，那更好。否则我现金上也没有压力。当然，房子的大头还是增值，像老妖说的那样，是长远路线，不能仅仅因为rental回报率来判断一个投资好不好。

newtoall

simplyjean 发表于 2012-11-16 01:04
我从来都是比较net, 因为这个才有可比性，特别是strata的高低还是有很重的影响。税收考虑的少，我尽量把税 ...

Good.  Then

1. When you compare the net, do you consider the interest ?

2. If yes for Q1, what is the base you use to calculate interest (mortgage amount, or mortgage amount + downpayment + stamp duty etc)?

3. What is the interest rate you used to calculate them ?


in essence, what is your net calculation formula?

simplyjean

newtoall 发表于 2012-11-16 07:53
Good.  Then

1. When you compare the net, do you consider the interest ?

1. When you compare the net, do you consider the interest ?
If I am comparing two investment projects, I don't consider interest as the rate will just be the same. But if just one project, I will definitely put interest in. Otherwise without considering interest it's not a real positive cash flow.

2. If yes for Q1, what is the base you use to calculate interest (mortgage amount, or mortgage amount + downpayment + stamp duty etc)?
Check with your broker to get the actual interest rate you can get. eg, if you want to fix your rate for 3 years, then use the 3-year fixed rate. As the whole amount of the property you will loan out of bank, so just use the rate. I don't separate the rate on mortgage or downpay.


3. What is the interest rate you used to calculate them ?
Whatever actual rate you will be paying, as you are calculating cash flow.

newtoall

simplyjean 发表于 2012-11-16 10:40
1. When you compare the net, do you consider the interest ?
If I am comparing two investment proje ...

Sorry about asking -- so you will use the full amount (loan amount +  20% down initial payment + stamp duty ) as the base for calculation for interest (opportunity cost)?

simplyjean

newtoall 发表于 2012-11-16 11:00
Sorry about asking -- so you will use the full amount (loan amount +  20% down initial payment + s ...

Yes I do that. :)

newtoall

simplyjean 发表于 2012-11-16 11:46
Yes I do that. :)

Great !!! just curious, are you in melbourne ? What is your rough asset ROI then by using full cost ?

flyspirit

我的理解是用gross rental return用来做筛选， 符合条件的再考虑， 当然这个还不是唯一条件。

真正操作时要算得仔细些， 用NPV的方式。 并把interest rate, rental return, rental growth rate和property growth rate设置成变量。 代几个不同参数算结果。

MIRACLE315

you should think about the interest you gonna pay for re-financial parts

lucyliu8472

unilodge 这种，或者便宜的，租金比例不低的，长期一般升值潜力不是很大。stuodio, student apt. etc.

10 - 15 w 可以买，但是翻番可能性不大

newtoall

flyspirit 发表于 2012-11-16 12:05
我的理解是用gross rental return用来做筛选， 符合条件的再考虑， 当然这个还不是唯一条件。

真正操作时 ...

Great  I am trying to use NPV but NPV implies NET PRESENT VALUE.  


To be relatively accurate,

In calculation net, the problem will be how to calculate the interest of those cost components like stamp duty, council fee, strata fee etc.  

Also how much interest should be used during the holding time period, variable or fixed ?

Anyone actually have  calculate their asset NPV  precisely considering all factors?

simplyjean

newtoall 发表于 2012-11-16 11:53
Great !!! just curious, are you in melbourne ? What is your rough asset ROI then by using full cos ...

Sorry, I am in Syd. But I still want to say that, cash flow is not everything to property investment. You will need to look at the possibility of capital growth because you invest not for rent but for CG.