85k package 现在这个行情怎么样？

yangwulong1978

现在工作少了很多,有好的机会就跳,

runxi328

原帖由 1000 于 2010-3-2 11:55 发表

http://www.crn.com.au/News/168292,ibm-australia-mulls-800-job-cuts.aspx
IBM,应该会裁吧?

总部在美国的公司都不能独善其身，IBM现在感觉更像一个service公司，而不是单单的ＩＴ．

St Leonards他们那个白楼能卖不少钱呢，可是黄金地段阿．

1000

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-2 12:13 发表


总部在美国的公司都不能独善其身，IBM现在感觉更像一个service公司，而不是单单的ＩＴ．

St Leonards他们那个白楼能卖不少钱呢，可是黄金地段阿．

IBM再穷,也不会卖楼啊.哈哈.
而且通常公司的办公楼都是租的.

flyspirit

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-2 12:13 发表


总部在美国的公司都不能独善其身，IBM现在感觉更像一个service公司，而不是单单的ＩＴ．

St Leonards他们那个白楼能卖不少钱呢，可是黄金地段阿．

IBM从郭士纳年代开始，就开始转向做service了，现在它是变成一个有自己软硬件产品的服务公司。

BTW, 你的counter offer怎么弄的？是否方便透露下细节？

runxi328

@月亮＆flyspirit

上个星期六跟老板谈也基本上是非正式会谈，中心思想就是不小心得到一个offer(不是成心找工作的，原来认识朋友介绍的）,现在不知道怎么办，asking for advice．

然后哭穷（上有老，下有小，内有妻，外有妾，还得养房子，花费巨大~~），现在薪水的确实在无法糊口，如果到最后要走，也是情非所愿，然后谈如何如何喜欢现在的公司（比较肉麻，略去５０００字）

老板这个过程一直面带微笑，最后说要周末考虑一下，不能当时给我答案．

昨天谈话一开始就给了我salary increase 9K,当时以为听错了，让他重复了一遍，得到确认后，心里像打翻了五味瓶，真的悲喜交加，高兴的是他给我加工资，悲伤的我竟然做了这么久得under pay的工作．

这个过程中我的指导思想就是尽量别把话说死，避免正面冲突，考虑对方的自尊心，毕竟leaving for another job对现在的老板有点被dump的感觉，如果这点掌握的很有分寸，相信拿counter offer也不是什么难事（不过不到万不得已，还是不建议拿）．

明年今日

菜鸟问counter offer是何意思?

runxi328

原帖由 明年今日 于 2010-3-2 14:21 发表
菜鸟问counter offer是何意思?

google it.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/counter+offer

http://jobsearchtech.about.com/c ... /a/counteroffer.htm

flyspirit

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-2 13:41 发表
@月亮＆flyspirit

内有妻，外有妾 ...

， 这你也说的出口？

flyspirit

Counter Offer不好拿，LZ操作的很有技巧，佩服。

cloud

恭喜LZ

zn7726

MS LZ的问题都解决了? 恭喜恭喜

runxi328

@flyspirit&cloud&zn7726

谢谢你们的鼓励！！

＂内有妻，外有妾＂没敢说～～，不过说的还是financial obligation,不过我们老板跟其他老板一样，不怎么关心这个，毕竟这是自己的事。

他最关心的是：他pay我这个薪水，到底值不值，it's bottomline，其他都是虚的.

每个人在公司／team里的位置，老板心里都有一杆秤，早点洞悉这杆秤，我们就会在职场会少走很多弯路．

蓝马

exactly. 老板只关心到底值不值那个钱，不过他还会从全局考虑

华丽的分割线

此楼的形状完是若干个S形连接起来的，hoho
恭喜楼主了，问一下楼主平常都是做database support 还是application support啊？
其实代码烂不烂还是有相当历史原因的，我接手过一个2002年的project,很大也很旧了，从.net 1.1开始写起，menu什么的全部是js. logs满天飞，数据库里的table惨不忍睹，用我同事的话说就是“Where can I find a guide book for it?" 。不过因为那时候很多技术还不成熟，包括.net.
可能在当时已经是相当不错了。但是现在看起来毛病就很多，而且business在扩展，就算开始时design的再好，requirement 更新了，就要这里加一块那里加一些，自然就会臃肿。

runxi328

原帖由 华丽的分割线 于 2010-3-3 11:06 发表
此楼的形状完是若干个S形连接起来的，hoho
恭喜楼主了，问一下楼主平常都是做database support 还是application support啊？

"S形连接起来的"---比芙蓉姐姐ｓ如何？hoho
我平时前后台都作，database那边懂的人少，所以祸害的人也就少，相对干净，我６０％workload在这边，其他的４０％在new features,基本上就是前后台都做了．
.net 1.1不是很成熟，但.net 2.0就是一个很成熟的产品，后来的3.0,3.5都可以说是它的service pack 1 & 2,core part没什么改变的.相信从1.1update到2.0不是什么难事。这些事情都好说。

u r luck!! 你们的产品（非db side)从一开始就是good design,这点就保证了它的maintainance & scalability是好的，从surport的角度来说，就容易很多．我们的产品都没法说了，牵一发动全身，high coupling is everywhere.....performance就更别说了，还用那种weak typed dataset呢．．．．．

我们的developer很多都是半路出家的，lack sense of performance consideration when coding,可以理解．

不过，想想我整天跟这些sh*t code打交道，我都恶心，不提了．

[ 本帖最后由 runxi328 于 2010-3-3 12:11 编辑 ]

典

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-3 10:34 发表
我平时前后台都作，database那边懂的人少，所以祸害的人也就少，相对干净，我６０％workload在这边，其他的４０％在new features,基本上就是前后台都做了．
....
我们的developer很多都是半路出家的，lack sense of performance consideration when coding,可以理解．

不过，想想我整天跟这些sh*t code打交道，我都恶心，不提了．

Hi mate, actually it's your chance.

runxi328

原帖由 典 于 2010-3-3 12:45 发表


Hi mate, actually it's your chance.

yeah, i'm lead developer in my team already. let's why my boss try to keep me by salary raise.

but sh*t code is source of pain, i have to live with it anyway.

it's life.

darkdarkboz

多谢楼主分享经验！！

受益匪浅啊，呵呵

wzxsun

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-3 13:23 发表


yeah, i'm lead developer in my team already. let's why my boss try to keep me by salary raise.

but sh*t code is source of pain, i have to live with it anyway.

it's life.

同感～～ 现在天天看着三哥们透着浓浓咖喱味的code，真想一头撞死算了

runxi328

原帖由 wzxsun 于 2010-3-3 17:29 发表


同感～～ 现在天天看着三哥们透着浓浓咖喱味的code，真想一头撞死算了

i'm working on .cs which is code behind of aspx. it contains 8183 lines of code.

in that aspx file, 1090 lines.

for the method to handle save button, it has 4338 lines.

what can i say?! sigh.....

flyspirit

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-3 18:18 发表


i'm working on .cs which is code behind of aspx. it contains 8183 lines of code.

in that aspx file, 1090 lines.

for the method to handle save button, it has 4338 lines.

what can i say?! s ...

amazing. Only one page?

runxi328

原帖由 flyspirit 于 2010-3-3 21:29 发表


amazing. Only one page?

yeah, just one page only.

the author is an idiot.

flyspirit

原帖由 runxi328 于 2010-3-3 22:10 发表


yeah, just one page only.

the author is an idiot.

That's very unusual. Since you are the tech leader, you can try to change the situation by dividing the long method to several small ones， encapsulate duplicated codes to functions, or generalizing properties/methods to super classes. Design patterns can also be introduced to ease the complexity. Then you can make the life of yourself and the whole team easier.

runxi328

原帖由 flyspirit 于 2010-3-4 09:10 发表


That's very unusual. Since you are the tech leader, you can try to change the situation by dividing the long method to several small ones， encapsulate duplicated codes to functions, or generalizi ...

very good point flyspirit!!

but we don't have much budget for refactoring. As long as it's functional, no one actually cares. i'm pretty much swamped with new functionality analysis/development and bug fixing.

there's no such a thing like phase 1 and 2 in my organization, everything is just one shot, working or not working. lots of tricky & doggie stuff which make it very hard for us to keep quality work.

there's no future for this product technically, but financially it's a big success, making huge fortune out of it.   

it's bizarre !!

flyspirit

Is that too busy to do this kind of work?

You can raise some points to your boss, such as:  the poor codes reduce productivity, or: if it doesn't work one day, it's hard and take long time to troubleshooting.

If you are just a developer, it's unlikely to discuss these concerns with your boss. But you are in this position and have the opportunities to influence the thoughts of your boss and have the power to implement your improvement plan.

runxi328

Brovo!! flyspirit!!

i bet u r the one making a big difference in the team. very inspirational & encouraging indeed !!

yes, I'm getting to the position to take over the "ownership" of product, thus i do have ability to take every chance to influence my boss.sh*t code is annoying, but functional still. it has to be fixed at some point, but it's not top priority, bug fixing and new features are and that priority list is worked out by both our clients and my team.

I suppose the best timing of getting this one solved is when we r lighted in work, i may propose and i'm sure my client is more than happy to allow us to proceed.

Business is business, we r just developers to implement whatever they want , not decision maker.

flyspirit

Hi, runxi328

Sure this kind of thing isn't the first prority. But it doesn't mean unimportant. You make it happen by starting it silently. For example, you can require dev team adhereing to good coding style in future work. And write unit test whenever possible. As you know, when refactoring code one day, chances are you may break existing functions. So unit test can limit the risk.

"client is more than happy to allow us to proceed.". I'm not quite understanding about this sentence since in my mind this kind of work usually happen without the awareness of clients.

Although our developers are not decision makers, we can find ways to improve our environment. And since you will be in charge of a team, you are not a pure deveoper any more

runxi328

@flyspirit

very good point!!!

As u already know unit testing for webform developer is nothing new, but no one would put it into practice. especially the business logic is implement in the event handler which is driven by an event. that's very hard for us to actually create "context"(which can be very ugly) and put it into unit test.

but with MVC, we might be able to accomplish this. Still, there are lots of questions marks. Shifting our current product from one platform to another requires HUGE efforts and giving the current circumstance, i'm not quite sure we are getting there.   

we have been working very closely with our client, keep them updated where we are at, they need to know every single move we made, as we are service provider, not merely software vendor.

yes, u r right, i'm leading the team from tech perspective, but lots of issues are out of scope of tech, they are combination of business & technical & politics. i learning as i go. but in nature, I'm a developer, don't really want to bull sh*t people, thus changing the world.

i guess i'm getting old now

flyspirit

Hi, mate, shift from ASP.NET to MVC is not practical and not recommended.

If you can put most of your functions to business layer or even business tier, you will find it much easier to wirte and run unit tests. In the work wihich I'm doing, the solution contains 59 projects, only one of them is Web project and the rest are all business layer and Data Access Layer projects. So we can write unit tests agaist BL and DL.

But as you said the codes are tight coupled so I have another thought. Acctually, there is a VS version called Web Tester edition, with this edition you can create web tests and record them for reuse purpose. Unfortunelty, this edition has a problem. In a web form, the name of some controls are dynamically created if they are within another control, the recorded web test can not detect change of the control name so if you rearrange the page layout a bit, it will fail for certain.

As I know there is a workaround for this, you can develop a plugin to detect the layout change and make the recorded web find the new name of a control. Someone did this and put it into practice.

IsDonIsGood

I'm confused. It looks like your IT department doesn't have test team or BA available? Developer should only focus on coding, refactoring or kind things like that. It looks like your client direct talk to you. I think they should talk to BA or PM.