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[医药资讯] 澳洲及各国顶尖科学家们签署声明,支持基因改造工程 [复制链接]

发表于 2013-9-28 01:23 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 hgaox 于 2013-9-28 00:30 编辑
Railgun 发表于 2013-9-28 00:18
算啦,没必要把帖子弄水。没必要抱着说服的目的,不过清晰一点,有助于旁观者理解。 ...


对帮观者理解gmo,算是我的部分目的,呵呵。
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发表于 2013-9-28 01:37 |显示全部楼层
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sydney22 发表于 2013-9-26 11:26
根本没有的事,你让他人查?
你的胡搅蛮缠功夫真是一流!

帮你俩解决一个事项:
关于加州公投,提案源网址见voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/37/
提案投票结果参考graphics.latimes.com/2012-election-results-california/ :No 52.8%胜过Yes 47.2%(一般报道为53:47)

发表于 2013-9-28 02:06 |显示全部楼层
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sydney22 发表于 2013-9-26 11:26
根本没有的事,你让他人查?
你的胡搅蛮缠功夫真是一流!

补充一句,刚才发的latimes数据脚注写了Updated: Nov. 25, 2012, 12:02 a.m. (过了17天,votes和percentage都略有变化)
37号提案源网址注明了Election Day是November 6, 2012,Polls are open 7:00 a.m. – 8:00 p.m.
有效投票的准确结果可参考果壳的截图weibo.com/1850988623/z4dylEPSt (No 53.1%胜过Yes 46.9%)

其实这至少已经说明了两个fact
一、美国人吃转基因食品
二、美国市场上的转基因食品不做标识,视为与普通食品substantially equivalent
头像被屏蔽

禁止发言

发表于 2013-9-28 08:14 |显示全部楼层
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Railgun 发表于 2013-9-28 01:06
补充一句,刚才发的latimes数据脚注写了Updated: Nov. 25, 2012, 12:02 a.m. (过了17天,votes和percent ...

那不就是证明他在传谣?他开始在宣传截然相反的结论呕

你说的两点一直是客观存在的,并不是争论焦点。

发表于 2013-9-28 08:40 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox 发表于 2013-9-28 00:06
问题是美国自己也是最大的gmo消费国?对吗?

你比美国所有的无冕之王消息还灵通?知道独家内幕?

FDA靠谱吗,看看下面的描述

The FDA regulates GM foods as part of the “coordinated framework” of federal agencies that also includes the Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”) and the United States Department of Agriculture (“USDA”).16 This framework, which has been the subject of critical analysis and calls for redesign,17 is available online18 and contains a searchable database that covers “genetically engineered crop plants intended for food or feed that have completed all recommended or required reviews.”19 The FDA policy (unchanged since 1992)20 places responsibility on the producer or manufacturer to assure the safety of the food, explicitly relying on the producer/manufacturer to do so: “Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the producer of a new food to evaluate the safety of the food and assure that the safety requirement of section 402(a)(1) of the act is met.”21 So it is the company, not any independent scientific review, providing the research that is relied on to assert safety. FDA guidance to industry issued in 1997 covered voluntary “consultation procedures,” but still relied on the developer of the product to provide safety data.22 There is currently no regulatory scheme requiring GM food to be tested to see whether it is safe for humans to eat.23

The FDA approach can be understood as the result of having a dual mission. In addition to its mission to protect food safety, the FDA was charged with promotion of the biotech industry.24

FDA的政策是食品厂商负责保证食品的安全,而不是独立的科学机构的评测。目前没有要求检测转基因食品是否对人类食用安全的规章制度。FDA因大力推广生物技术产业被广受指责。

说白了,FDA根本不管检测,所有的安全承诺来自于转基因产品公司,FDA的结论你还信吗?

发表于 2013-9-28 09:01 |显示全部楼层
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Railgun 发表于 2013-9-28 01:06
补充一句,刚才发的latimes数据脚注写了Updated: Nov. 25, 2012, 12:02 a.m. (过了17天,votes和percent ...

是的。因为FDA拒绝区分

The FDA did recognize public concern by stating that “While the use of bioengineering is not a material fact, many consumers are interested in the information, and some manufacturers may want to respond to this consumer desire.”41 To that end, the FDA described a comprehensive set of examples as to what would constitute unfair or misleading labeling.42 However, if the overarching FDA concern is truth in labeling, it is difficult to reconcile the statement that GM foods are not materially different when there is so much scientific disagreement.

FDA举了非常多的例子说明贴标签区分有多么多么不公平,多么多么误导消费者。
FDA不顾在有如此多科学分歧情况下,妄自断言转基因食品和其他食品没有区别。
完全不顾公众的呼声,和天朝的政府机构有得一拼。
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发表于 2013-9-28 09:19 |显示全部楼层
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美国民众的无奈

A recent CBS/New York Times poll states that 53% of Americans say they won’t buy food that has been genetically modified; avoiding GMOs is not an easy task, however (3). Without labeling, it is impossible to know the extent of any biotech contamination. And in creating GMOs, the DNA is often spliced with DNA from other organisms that could be detrimental to those with serious allergies or even those who are vegetarians. The Brazil nut was combined with soybeans for a time, until it produced too many allergic reactions (4). Although this particular combination has ceased, there is no telling what others exist, particularly when no one is legally compelled to say anything.

53%的美国民众说他们不会买转基因的食品。但因为没有标签标识,要避免购买转基因食品并不是件容易的事情。

发表于 2013-9-28 11:34 |显示全部楼层
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moris 发表于 2013-9-28 07:40
FDA靠谱吗,看看下面的描述

The FDA regulates GM foods as part of the “coordinated framework” of  ...

大多数国家都是如此,澳洲也是如此。还有传统食物的安全,fda也是不会作具体试验,就能因此否定传统食物的安全性?

说到fda管理的另一个领域,药品,不仅要安全,毒副作用明确,还要有确凿的试验数据支持其对某种某类或几种几类疾病有疗效,更是依靠药企提供的数据,绝大多数不敢公然造假吧?药品的利润更高,造假隐瞒的收益更大。再说事后追诉措施,乃至国会听证会都会最大可能挽回损失。没有100%不出错误的监管系统,无论是在食品药品领域,还是其它领域。

在食品安全问题上,民主开明国家的政府机构比民间组织更可信,更系统,更可以追根溯源。

发表于 2013-9-28 11:47 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox 发表于 2013-9-28 10:34
大多数国家都是如此,澳洲也是如此。还有传统食物的安全,fda也是不会作具体试验,就能因此否定传统食物 ...

不做实验就可以发表声明说食品是安全的?FDA真可信呀

民主国家最大的优点就是一旦发生问题,就允许有不同的声音,而不是说这个政府的所有决策都是正确的可以无脑依赖。

发表于 2013-9-28 12:05 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox的论点一开始就是
“美国是有政治游说,但是希望标识的势力也不小,就是生产销售有机食品的一方。
去年加州全民公决,否决了强制标识的法案。
美国加州政府的网站可查
加州政府网站又不是很难查,公投的新闻那么多?自己为什么不搜索一下?
第一,我不会编。
第二,你找不到,不代表他人也找不到。
第三,我不认为给了你链接,你就会闭嘴。”

sydney22说的是
“又扯那子虚乌有的“公投”了,摆脱你不要编造谣言来证明论点
根本没有的事,你让他人查?
呵呵,你编一个很难吗?
反正死无对证,没人找的到。”

hgaox的第一、第二两点论据很容易查到,我重新贴一遍链接:
voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/37/
有机食品公司鼓动的这个37号提案Yes的内容是:在该州销售的转基因食品,必须贴上特别的标签。
反对方:37号提案是一个欺骗性、有缺陷的食品标注方案,且含有满足特定人员利益的例外与漏洞。37号提案将会:创造新的政府官僚机构,浪费纳税人数百万资金,对农民和小企业形成昂贵的盘剥,令小商铺每年增加数百美元的支出。
印制标签会增加额外的开支,并转嫁给消费者。据估计,如果法案通过,纳税人每年增加的开支在几十万到上百万美元之间。

weibo.com/1850988623/z4dylEPSt
最后No 53.1%胜过Yes 46.9%,否决了强制标识的37号提案。
graphics.latimes.com/2012-election-results-california/
有效投票期17天后,数据变化不大。

在我帮忙给出中英文链接之后,sydney22仍然认为
“那不就是证明他在传谣?他开始在宣传截然相反的结论呕”
第三点也即将得到验证

围观的都看清楚了吧

评分

参与人数 1积分 +5 收起 理由
hgaox + 5 谢谢

查看全部评分

发表于 2013-9-28 13:52 |显示全部楼层
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moris 发表于 2013-9-28 10:47
不做实验就可以发表声明说食品是安全的?FDA真可信呀

民主国家最大的优点就是一旦发生问题,就允许有不 ...

黄金大米的安全已作验证,beta胡萝卜素的代谢在人体和试验动物体内不同,不作需要作动物试验,但是为了更安全,作了体外消化试验。
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发表于 2013-9-28 14:00 |显示全部楼层
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FDA与转基因巨头Monsanto 的历史

FDA starts at 1991 when Margaret Miller one of the ex-top scientists at Monsanto was appointed as Deputy Director of FDA by George Bush Sr. Margaret Miller, as one of the top scientists in Monsanto was working on developing rBGH growth hormones that have been linked to breast cancer on women and prostate cancer in men. Later on when she was working in FDA, she approved the same growth hormones that she was previously studying at Monsanto.


Political corruption of Monsanto and its influence

"Corporate totalitarianism … rules through dispensability and corruption. It treats communities, people, countries, ecosystems, species as disposable and dispensable."  

Monsanto; one of the most hated companies in America has had a long history of corruption, producing the most toxic chemicals and pesticides, food monopoly and market control.

Over the last century, Monsanto has been able to get away with many things, since it’s deeply rooted and embedded within the U.S. government. One of the best ways to be effective and be able to get away with anything even if it’s murder is the ability to penetrate and function inside of a powerful organization or institution. The CIA does it all the time; the old Mafia did it so do many other powerful corporations in America.

Agent-Orange-GMOs

Monsanto’s bullying policies are known to anyone who has stood up on their way against the use of GMOs, pesticides or rBGH growth hormones.

One of the countries who stood firmly against the import of GMOs, synthetic pesticides and cows who are injected with hormones and antibiotics was France because it has zero tolerance for carcinogens in food. But as we all know, no act of rebellion against the pesticide empire remains unpunished. During George Bush’s presidency, the French rejected to import livestock from the US, however the US retaliated by increasing steel import tariff’s during GATT talks to punish the French government and accused them of being anti-American.

That sounds familiar doesn’t it? Donald Rumsfeld (CEO of pharmaceutical company Searle that was later sold to Monsanto) called European countries (France and Germany) that did not support the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the “old Europe”.

George Bush’s famous quote,” that either you are with us or you are with the enemy” is still remembered by many. Even Iran who helped America to win the war on terror in Afghanistan was soon called the “axis of evil” by the same administration. Even one million Iraqi civilians mostly women and children were regarded as collateral damage of the war on terror.

As George Orwell said “until people become conscious, they never rebel and until after they have rebelled, they cannot become conscious”. The criminal elite know that if they take away the meaning of words, it will incapacitate our thoughts. So labels are everything; the content, the code, the underlying intentions and the desire to manipulate and control the masses so they can pass anything to American public with no time to review or reject it.

Knowing the history of Monsanto, oil companies and big banks, it’s quite laughable how Monsanto is now joining big banks and oil companies for pushing the UN so called Agenda 21 for global sustainability and development. Last week a report by organicconsumers.org showed how Monsanto has been deeply embedded with all our government branches since 1990s.
Here is a summary:

The history of Monsanto and FDA starts at 1991 when Margaret Miller one of the ex-top scientists at Monsanto was appointed as Deputy Director of FDA by George Bush Sr. Margaret Miller, as one of the top scientists in Monsanto was working on developing rBGH growth hormones that have been linked to breast cancer on women and prostate cancer in men. Later on when she was working in FDA, she approved the same growth hormones that she was previously studying at Monsanto.

In the same year of 1991, Clarence Thomas, an extremist and a right wing nutcase (who was Monsanto’s former attorney and a big promoter of agribusinesses and mass chemical poisoning) was appointed to the Supreme Court despite the rage of the whole nation.

On the other hand Al Gore that warned all of us of the rapid climate change and greedy polluting corporations like Monsanto won the 2000 election by the majority vote. However, over 46,000 black votes were discounted in the state of Florida where George Bush’s bother was the governor. It was the decision of the US Supreme Court that effectively resolved the 2000 presidential election fraud in favor of George W. Bush. Clarence Thomas was the one who cast the deceptive vote that put George W. Bush into the office.

US-veteran-Vietnamese-AGENT-ORANGE

In 1992, Michael Taylor, Monsanto’s former attorney was appointed as Deputy Commissioner of FDA; a role that gave him the authority to expedite the approval of genetically modified organisms in our food supply.  Later on Mike Taylor became the VP of Monsanto.

In 1993; Rufus Yerxa Monsanto’s Chief Counsel and one of the most powerful figures in the world international trade policies was nominated as U.S. deputy to the World Trade Organization.

In 1996, Michael Kantor who was on Monsanto’s Board of Directors became the US Secretary of Commerce.
In 2000, Carol Tucker Foreman who was a lobbyist for Monsanto was appointed as the “Consumer Advocate” on the international committee assessing genetically modified foods.

In 2001, Anne Veneman who was on Board of Directors of one of Monsanto’s biotech subsidiary called Calgene was appointed as head of USDA in charge of regulating genetically modified organisms.

In January 2001, Donald Rumsfeld the CEO of Searle pharmaceutical corporation acquired by Monsanto was sworn in as Secretary of Defense. Although Bush was a lame-duck president for 8 month soon after 9/11 he rediscovered his mission that was appointed to him by Gods to fight a good war on terror. Secretary Rumsfeld was in charge of the Defense Department during the 9/11 attack and the war on terror.

In 2001 Linda Fisher who was previously Monsanto’s VP of Government Affairs was appointed as Deputy Administrator of Environmental Protection Agency.

In 2002, George Poste the former Monsanto’s animal specialist was appointed as head of bioterrorism division of Homeland Security.

In 2008, Obama despite his promises to make changes and label GMO foods appointed Michael Taylor, Monsanto’s former attorney and VP as Deputy Commissioner of FDA. He also gave his blessing to continue the use of aborted babies as flavor enhancer in sodas and soft drinks which means business as usual.

In the same year of 1991, Clarence Thomas, an extremist and a right wing nutcase (who was Monsanto’s former attorney and a big promoter of agribusinesses and mass chemical poisoning) was appointed to the Supreme Court despite the rage of the whole nation.

On the other hand Al Gore that warned all of us of the rapid climate change and greedy polluting corporations like Monsanto won the 2000 election by the majority vote. However, over 46,000 black votes were discounted in the state of Florida where George Bush’s bother was the governor. It was the decision of the US Supreme Court that effectively resolved the 2000 presidential election fraud in favor of George W. Bush. Clarence Thomas was the one who cast the deceptive vote that put George W. Bush into the office.

千丝万缕的关系。Monsanto 和FDA比亲兄弟还亲啊。

美国FDA的结论谁爱信谁信

发表于 2013-9-28 14:21 |显示全部楼层
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hgaox 发表于 2013-9-28 12:52
黄金大米的安全已作验证,beta胡萝卜素的代谢在人体和试验动物体内不同,不作需要作动物试验,但是为了更 ...

还在实验阶段的东西就能说安全性通过验证?你造谣前先想想清楚呀

黄金大米的争议

Critics of genetically engineered crops have raised various concerns. One of these is that golden rice originally did not have sufficient vitamin A. This problem was solved by the development of new strains of rice.[4] However, there are still doubts about the speed at which vitamin A degrades once the plant is harvested, and how much remains after cooking.[38] A 2009 study concluded that golden rice is effectively converted into vitamin A in humans[13] and a 2012 study that fed 68 children ages 6 to 8 concluded that golden rice was as good as vitamin A supplements and better than the natural beta-carotene in spinach.[15]

Greenpeace opposes the release of any genetically modified organisms into the environment and is concerned that golden rice is a Pandora's Box that will open the door to more widespread use of GMOs.[39]

Vandana Shiva, an Indian anti-GMO activist, argued the problem was not that the crop had any particular deficiencies, but that there were potential problems with poverty and loss of biodiversity in food crops. These problems are aggravated by the corporate control of agriculture via control of genetically modified organisms. By focusing on a narrow problem (vitamin A deficiency), Shiva argued, the golden rice proponents were obscuring the larger issue of a lack of broad availability of diverse and nutritionally adequate sources of food.[40] Other groups argued that a varied diet containing foods rich in beta carotene such as sweet potato, leafy green vegetables and fruit would provide children with sufficient vitamin A.[41] However Keith West of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health has argued that foodstuffs containing Vitamin A are either unavailable, or only available at certain seasons, or that they are too expensive for poor families in underdeveloped countries.[15]

Because of lacking real-world studies and uncertainty about how many people will use golden rice, WHO malnutrition expert Francesco Branca concludes "giving out supplements, fortifying existing foods with vitamin A, and teaching people to grow carrots or certain leafy vegetables are, for now, more promising ways to fight the problem".[42]

WHO都不建议通过通过黄金大米来解决维他命A缺少的问题,而是通过已有食品进行补给。

发表于 2013-9-28 17:03 |显示全部楼层
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moris 发表于 2013-9-28 13:21
还在实验阶段的东西就能说安全性通过验证?你造谣前先想想清楚呀

黄金大米的争议

我没有在who网站查到最后一段话。

发表于 2013-9-28 17:56 |显示全部楼层
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moris 发表于 2013-9-28 08:01
是的。因为FDA拒绝区分

The FDA did recognize public concern by stating that “While the use of bio ...

何来科学分歧?

发表于 2013-9-28 17:59 |显示全部楼层
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moris 发表于 2013-9-28 10:47
不做实验就可以发表声明说食品是安全的?FDA真可信呀

民主国家最大的优点就是一旦发生问题,就允许有不 ...

我是说fda不负责具体试验。
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发表于 2013-9-28 18:04 |显示全部楼层
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Railgun 发表于 2013-9-28 11:05
hgaox的论点一开始就是
“美国是有政治游说,但是希望标识的势力也不小,就是生产销售有机食品的一方。
去 ...

会有人说你是我的马甲吧?hoho

发表于 2013-9-28 19:27 |显示全部楼层
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garysu 发表于 2013-9-23 16:51
我只是说发表支持和反对言论的都是基于利益。

你说的也没错,科研活动都是为了利益,只不过有的只有远期 ...

比如电影阿凡达就很典型

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