大结局，记录下跟邻居为了fence，plants走法律途径的过程

Laoyu

ilkam

支持楼主用法律维护自己的权益。看邻居信里的说辞和语气都非常的不友好甚至可以说是藐视，只能用法律沟通了。

jack.h

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-2-25 22:25
哇偶，层主平时是不是喜欢研究一些法律条文，谢谢你还去找对应的条款帮我研究。我平时一看到这些act，头 ...

安个摄像头，记录下，这样就有证据了。

zykk759

世界是由甲方乙方构成的，所以世事只有“”半称心“”而没有“”都如意“，许多世人不懂这道理所以会生出许多纠纷。好在我们文明社会有个尊严的第三方——法庭来受理申诉和判定是非。我们把甲方乙方叫事主把第三方叫判官。判官判决采用的是对折原理-----谁更接近中线者得胜。回到本案，恕我直言，楼主的邻居比楼主更接近中线。是的，我撞了你的车，我担责负责修理就是了，你要人保证修理后怎么怎么没有道理。同理，本次诉讼也是楼主不合理诉求而发生的，所以楼主必输无疑。有开盘的么？我立马下注。

阿德莱德的流氓

加油

huang003261

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-6 19:26
收到邻居第二封杀气腾腾的回信，律师跟我说他们还是那么地combative。我跟律师说了，再跟他们信件继续下去 ...

Lz 你的这个邻居相当狡猾哦， 看起来回信里面不是在正面回答你们的问题和要求，但是他一直在强调他的行为在相关法律条文的合法性。

他认为对他有利的相关法案条文如下：

Dividing Fences Act 1991 No72, Part1, Section 3:

In this Act:
adjoining owners means the owners of land on either side of a common boundary.
dividing fence means a fence separating the land of adjoining owners, whether on the common boundary of adjoining lands or on a line other than the common boundary.
fence means a structure, ditch or embankment, or a hedge or similar vegetative barrier, enclosing or bounding land, whether or not continuous or extending along the whole of the boundary separating the land of adjoining owners, and includes:
(a)  any gate, cattlegrid or apparatus necessary for the operation of the fence, and
(b)  any natural or artificial watercourse which separates the land of adjoining owners, and
(c)  any foundation or support necessary for the support and maintenance of the fence,
but does not include a retaining wall (except as provided by paragraph (c)) or a wall which is part of a house, garage or other building.

Dviding Fences Act 1991 No72, Part2,Section 8:

Contribution where negligent or deliberate act
(1)  Despite section 7, an adjoining owner is liable for up to the whole cost of the fencing work required to restore a dividing fence that has been damaged or destroyed by a negligent or deliberate act of the owner or of a person who has entered the land concerned with the express or implied consent of the owner.
(2)  Any such dividing fence is to be restored to a reasonable standard, having regard to its state before the damage or destruction.
(3)  In determining an adjoining owner’s liability under this section, it does not matter if the negligent or deliberate act concerned took place before the commencement of this section.

Section 3 里面写了确实树墙是可以做dviding fence的， Section 8 里面写了如果是因为你的疏忽 （这里可以理解为疏于维护）导致fence damaged， 费用要由你全额承担。 这也是为什么他一直强调你不管理院子，上十年都不维护fence.  还有就是他一直在强调他的树墙多么superier, 你的fence 多么cheap, 就是想证明他的树墙足够用了， 你的fence 甚至可以拆除。 至少这是他理解的法律条文，也是切合条文里的定义来展开的。 实际上common sence也知道栅栏这东西是 tear and wear 的， 时间久了都需要修，不管有没有维护，而且谁没事去维护栅栏啊。。。所以一般都是邻居协商好，一人出一部分费用。字里行间看的出来你的邻居是个斯文败类，平时肯定也是满口仁义道德，但实际上是说话刻薄。。。

当然也有相关条款讲了例外
Dividing Fences Act 1991 No72, Part1, Section 4:

Determination as to “sufficient dividing fence”
In any proceedings under this Act, the Local Court or the Civil and Administrative Tribunal is to consider all the circumstances of the case when determining the standard for a sufficient dividing fence for the purposes of this Act, including the following:
(a)  the existing dividing fence (if any),
(b)  the purposes for which the adjoining lands are used or intended to be used,
(c)  the privacy or other concerns of the adjoining land owners,
(d)  the kind of dividing fence usual in the locality,
(e)  any policy or code relating to dividing fences adopted by the council of the local government area in which the adjoining lands are situated,
(f)  any relevant environmental planning instrument relating to the adjoining lands or to the locality in which they are situated,
(g)  in the case of a dividing fence affecting land the subject of a lease under the Western Lands Act 1901, any order in force under section 18A of that Act immediately before the repeal of that Act.

(c)部分你可以说他的树墙对于你来说不够保护你的隐私并且你有其他concern, 比如。。。。找一堆理由就是了， 所以你必须保留自己这边的fence.


整体的感觉就是你的邻居非常难缠，我个人觉得你不能用常规办法来处理。 而且你的律师稍微有点soft, 你自己可以想想办法恶心一下他。 比如啊， 只是比如， 下次大风有树叶掉到你家， 你可以用落下的树叶给自己造成些”小小“的scratch, 然后去医院验伤， 这样就有证据证明树叶会给人造成伤害， 顺便把医药费让他赔了。 当然这只是我随便想的一个方法啊， 不是建议你尝试。 总体意思就是不能用常规办法，要用合法的非常规手段恶心他。

JJJJJJZ

留爪！

Jasmin365

huang003261 发表于 2021-3-8 08:18
Lz 你的这个邻居相当狡猾哦， 看起来回信里面不是在正面回答你们的问题和要求，但是他一直在强调他的行为 ...

真的非常感谢你一如既往热心地帮我分析case，说的对极了，我的邻居就在反复地把责任推我这头，尽量撇清他们的干系。

律师之前说要再发一封信，如下，

Dear ...

We write in reply to your letter dated ...

Your bamboo plants caused or contributed to the collapse of the decorative fence cladding. However, our client is not seeking compensation for that damage or to have you pay for the cost to repair it.
The existing dividing fence does not require replacing and is both proper and adequate. If however, you wish to remove it in order to gain access for works required to contain your bamboo, then our client is content for that to happen provided the fence is then restored.
The question as to whether or not your brushwood fence could be considered an adequate dividing fence for the purposes of the Dividing Fences Act does not arise in circumstances where our client is not seeking to replace the existing fence.
What we are seeking is for you to take reasonable steps to address the tree nuisances we have identified.
Should the ‘vermin and weed trap’ you describe materialise, then that would be a further nuisance of your making – you having erected the brushwood fence.
The works you have outlined number 1 to 4 in your letter need only be supplemented by an undertaking to restore the existing timber boundary fence in order for an agreed scope to be achieved.
As previously advice, our client would require the relevant details of the contractor you intend to engage to undertake the works.  
Your palm trees have not been attended to since our initial letter to you. Enclosed is a photograph taken on 6 March showing one of your palm trees laden with dead fronds susceptible to detaching and falling into our client’s property.
If we do not receive a satisfactory response by ...  then we are instructed to apply to the Land and Environment Court for appropriate orders. We will rely upon this and prior correspondence in seeking that the Court make orders that you pay our client’s legal costs.

说实话，我现在想到这个case已经开始犯恶心了，我跟律师说这封信不用再回复了，因为实在不想再看对方胡扯，直接上庭，哪怕法官觉得双方在上庭前没有充分沟通，顶多算我多分摊律师费。

Thank you for your clarification.

I never reject any healthy communication, but the feedback filled with insult and fabrication from them was really disgusting. I don't think I still can tolerate their endless bullshit anymore. It's just like cutting a stale durian every time when reading their letters, the only uncertainty is I don't know how stale each time the durian is until I open it.

I understand your concern that because the court requires both parties' effort to solve the problem before starting the procedure. I think we had done enough. Even you send them this letter, the most likely result is that they bring out more bullshit and require us to respond which will lead to endless correspondence.  

If you think that the court will think we haven't communicated enough before the procedure, will it only affect my proportion of the legal cost? If so, it's ok. I had enough of their nonsense. The more important thing is I want them to know their responsibilities and duties from this case.

I really don't want to put much time, sentiment, and energy into this case since ...

律师回复了我关于不想继续发信澄清直接上庭的事，律师觉得还是要把信发一下，以做最后澄清。上述信件发出。

huang003261

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-8 18:58
真的非常感谢你一如既往热心地帮我分析case，说的对极了，我的邻居就在反复地把责任推我这头，尽量撇清他 ...

确实和这种恶心的人打交道是很郁闷
你的律师应该早看穿你的邻居的策略，回信里面把你邻居的几个论点逐一debate了一番.
说实话碰到这种人是挺倒霉的，越是这个时候越要强硬，希望你持续更新 能让后来人得到宝贵的经验

Jasmin365

huang003261 发表于 2021-3-8 19:24
确实和这种恶心的人打交道是很郁闷
你的律师应该早看穿你的邻居的策略，回信里面把你邻居的几个论点逐一d ...

说实话，用我的眼睛看出来的是对方胡搅蛮缠，专业人的眼睛确实很能直中要害，律师就像是钟馗，让他们去灭小鬼去吧。

有你们的鼓励和支持，我会继续跟新的。

maymei

支持楼主

安之麻麻

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-8 20:20
说实话，用我的眼睛看出来的是对方胡搅蛮缠，专业人的眼睛确实很能直中要害，律师就像是钟馗，让他们去灭 ...

安慰一下，真是闹心。

Iris^^

请问从第一次和邻居为此事沟通到现在已经多久了？

bb666

支持楼主~
这种邻居也不是那种想和和睦睦的~

Jsoulcarexx

这种邻居就算楼主胜诉，以后还是搬家吧，说不定以后想着合理，合法的事来恶心你

zed9527

楼主加油

rebecca_123

Mark一下，后续继续关注。支持楼主。
未经他人苦，莫劝人善良

Jasmin365

Iris^^ 发表于 2021-3-10 13:28
请问从第一次和邻居为此事沟通到现在已经多久了？

2年，不过当中隔了covid，有一年没动。

Jasmin365

Jsoulcarexx 发表于 2021-3-10 17:19
这种邻居就算楼主胜诉，以后还是搬家吧，说不定以后想着合理，合法的事来恶心你 ...

他们家跟我家是侧面相连，他们也就植物和篱笆能恶心到我，如果这次全解决了，那没啥还能再恶心的了。

winterwy

楼主加油，这种事情摊上真是倒霉。
反过来想，也是不同寻常的个人经历，会是你以后的个人财富。

da01234

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-8 20:20
说实话，用我的眼睛看出来的是对方胡搅蛮缠，专业人的眼睛确实很能直中要害，律师就像是钟馗，让他们去灭 ...

法官也是人，也有感情。

所以，只要把事情说清楚就行。这些信件到时候都会提交给法庭的，显得过于强硬，可能反而对自己不利。

所以，我觉得你们目前的策略可以。

maodebaoen126

围观 希望恶心邻居早日接受法律制裁:)

Jasmin365

da01234 发表于 2021-3-11 01:11
法官也是人，也有感情。

所以，只要把事情说清楚就行。这些信件到时候都会提交给法庭的，显得过于强硬， ...

是的，律师在我的case里透过现象看本质。说实话，作为当事人，很容易被对方的无理激怒而蒙蔽住理性的思考。如果让我们直接跟对方交锋，很容易因为不够理性回复而给自己挖陷阱，反而会让自己变有利为不利。

呼噜2

boundary encrochment有tolerence吗？允许误差吗？听说允许5-10CM?

天涯芳草

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-8 18:58
真的非常感谢你一如既往热心地帮我分析case，说的对极了，我的邻居就在反复地把责任推我这头，尽量撇清他 ...

很专业的分析，行家啊

天涯芳草

Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-11 17:04
是的，律师在我的case里透过现象看本质。说实话，作为当事人，很容易被对方的无理激怒而蒙蔽住理性的思考 ...

我觉得你一定要hold住啊，打官司就像比憋气的，这也就是大多数人不想打官司的原因，且不论输赢，这个憋屈的过程很多人都不想去经历的。

dong26

支持楼主

Jasmin365

呼噜2 发表于 2021-3-11 21:30
boundary encrochment有tolerence吗？允许误差吗？听说允许5-10CM?

误差应该是有个允许范围的，但不适合我这个case。

我这个case里，邻居对这段gap非常介意是他们的主权，之前我们跟他说如果通过我们家来铺设root barrier，当心不要损坏我家这边的一些浇花设施之类的。这个邻居马上像弹簧一样跳起来，说我们是不是把这些设施装到这个gap里了，如果那样，是极端不负责任和违法的。反复提到我们不可以用他们这个gap（谁吃饱了撑的，用他这点破地）。

Jasmin365

天涯芳草 发表于 2021-3-11 22:27
我觉得你一定要hold住啊，打官司就像比憋气的，这也就是大多数人不想打官司的原因，且不论输赢，这个憋屈 ...

现在一定得hold住了。
确实这个过程不舒服，现在想到这个邻居，发自内心的恶心，希望上庭的时候，律师能全帮我代言了，否则看到那个SB，止不住先恶心了，会影响到说话逻辑性。
现在理解那些被性侵的女性，如果一直上庭，自己当庭揭露那些黑暗时候，确实会崩溃的。

pingjoy

我光旁观就觉得够恶心的了 都不想看你邻居的回信，而楼主还身在局中，我完全能理解你此刻的心情得有多糟了。祝你打赢官司，狠狠地弄死这恶邻居！弄死他！！！