。。。。

MsOrange

。。。。。。。

[ 本帖最后由 MsOrange 于 2012-4-17 16:35 编辑 ]

MsOrange

ding

MsOrange

ding

xinxin119

do you want to sell or buy

[ 本帖最后由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-1 12:10 编辑 ]

MsOrange

还没有买啊，是期权。

xinxin119

then your capital gain will be calculated at time of purchase i.e. time 3 or when u sell the actual shares

MsOrange

是不是说如果我今天用$2元的option价格购入时候市场股价是$3，
那么我可以选择在买入的时候报税，
也就是按每股盈利$1来算CGT，是吗？
但是这种情况下是不是没有50％discount

000567

原帖由 MsOrange 于 2011-6-1 14:41 发表
是不是说如果我今天用$2元的option价格购入时候市场股价是$3，
那么我可以选择在买入的时候报税，
也就是按每股盈利$1来算CGT，是吗？
但是这种情况下是不是没有50％discount

当你卖出股票的时候报税

MsOrange

看来没有统一的说法⋯⋯⋯⋯

000567

你真正投入资金的是你exercise option的时候，$2/share，当你卖出股票的时候才会产生gain or loss

000567

如果你拿的option 是listed，你也可以直接在market上卖掉

xinxin119

sorry ~~ i was initially not 100% right in answering your question.

1. you need to decide when the options are created. Based on your description, your employment contract may specify that you need to provide certain period of service in order to be eligible for granting the option (i.e. you can exercise the option). As per what you say, the option is created on your time 2. 2009
2. In 2009, the strike price is higher than the actual market price, therefore you do not receive any discount from creating such option.
3.You exercise the option to acquire the shares, this will not be ESS. ESS only apply in Time 2.
4. Generally, if your time 2 exercise price is lower than time 2 market price, it deemed to be you received a discount from your employer. you can disregard if the discount amount is less than $1000. If the discount is more than $1000, there are two options: A. report & assess upfront, (i.e. in the 2009 tax return, insert the discounted amount as assessable income in a particular tax slot). B. report & assess when you acquire shares, i.e. your time 3.
5. In your case, the options are granted in 2009, the market price is less than your exercise price, therefore, you are not receiving any discount from your employer, and no reporting obligations.
6. You need to calculate the difference between the exercise price and the market price at time you acquire the shares in Time 3. Then, treat the difference as your assessable income, NOT AS CAPITAL GAIN.
7. In the future, the sale of the share will be ordinary CGT treatment with market value as the cost base when you acquire them.

Please consult to your own accountant, my opinion is not always right :). As rule of thumb, your employer will usually issue a instruction on completing your tax return when you participate in ESS

Sorry~~ gotta be serious this time ~~lol

Also, there are transitional rules and old rules for pre-1 july 2009.. because you not elect to tax upfront, the old rule does not apply to you, plus I wanna slack a bit

[ 本帖最后由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-1 23:05 编辑 ]

MsOrange

是不是就是说，时间点三上要报一次税，即 购入价和市场价的差额 ，作为assessable income? 不是CGT？
等卖的时候还要再报一次税，如果有盈利就要交CGT。

这样的话，同一笔收益我不是交了两次税吗？而且万一我卖的时候亏本了，第一次那个作为income的税等于白交了？

xinxin119

for example:
you paid $2 to exercise the option of $3 dollar for 2000 units worth of shares. Then the price discount (not CGT) you received because of ESS is $2000, you need to pay tax on the discount you received.

IF you sell the share in the future at price of $10, the Capital gain will be ($10-$3)*2000 plus 50% discount if any.

you are not pay double tax. and if you sell the shares less than $2 in the future, sorry, this is share market, no gain can be guaranteed. Your risk , you bear it :)

my humble opinion only. you need to ask your own accountant, although I am too.

[ 本帖最后由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-2 12:47 编辑 ]

lingyang

在工党新的政策和强劲澳币的夹击下, 公司发的option和股票已经基本没有吸引力了,

那股票的时候要缴税, 卖的时候赚了还要缴税, 亏了只能是captical loss, NND 工党想钱想疯了

MsOrange

谢谢xinxin，你说的很详细了。
我自己也得看看ESS这方面的税法，虽然不是很懂。

xinxin119

if the amount is large , u need to be serious about it, if the amount is small , then forget about it and let it be

MsOrange

哦，其实是我cousin的事情，他没干过这事，没啥经验，所以让我这个时间很多的宅女帮他research下。我方便起见用第一人称代替。

我刚仔细看了一下新的Div 83A 。就是说分两批交税。
1。as part of assessable income: 等于说就是按 市场价－期权价的差额算；也就是说，如果打算长期持有的话，在市场价低点购入时候，这一步的税可以交少点，比较划得来？
2. 卖的时候as CGT，等于说cost base其实是当时购入的市场价，而不是期权价，对吧？如果是这样的话，也不算是双重收税了。只不过是交后果自负。

但是，他应该还是按旧的 Div 13A, 因为是在09年7月前得到了可以购买期权的权利（那时候达到服务年限来着）。旧的法律下也是要分两部交税吗？

happysee

原帖由 MsOrange 于 2011-6-2 13:26 发表
哦，其实是我cousin的事情，他没干过这事，没啥经验，所以让我这个时间很多的宅女帮他research下。我方便起见用第一人称代替。

我刚仔细看了一下新的Div 83A 。就是说分两批交税。
1。as part of assessable income: 等于说 ...

应该在市场价格高的时候行使期权,这样是稳赚,可以立刻抛出,完全不承担风险.

MsOrange

原帖由 happysee 于 2011-6-2 14:39 发表

应该在市场价格高的时候行使期权,这样是稳赚,可以立刻抛出,完全不承担风险.

是的，如果想承担一定风险，长期持有的话就应该是低点买入吧？

xinxin119

原帖由 MsOrange 于 2011-6-2 13:26 发表
哦，其实是我cousin的事情，他没干过这事，没啥经验，所以让我这个时间很多的宅女帮他research下。我方便起见用第一人称代替。

我刚仔细看了一下新的Div 83A 。就是说分两批交税。
1。as part of assessable income: 等于说 ...

er.... it is a bit passion killing when it is a matter of your cousin, but as I understand, if you do not elect upfront tax option before 2009, the new rule will apply as default. Please ask your cousin to seek own professional advice.

MsOrange

原帖由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-2 17:58 发表


er.... it is a bit passion killing when it is a matter of your cousin, but as I understand, if you do not elect upfront tax option before 2009, the new rule will apply as default. Please ask your co ...

好的，谢谢了。我帮他查到这么清楚也算仁至义尽，到时候让他请客，呵呵。

xinxin119

原帖由 MsOrange 于 2011-6-2 19:55 发表



好的，谢谢了。我帮他查到这么清楚也算仁至义尽，到时候让他请客，呵呵。

i am in melb , hopefully the treat is not a bounced cheque lol, by the way ~~ it is skiiiiiil and knowleeeedge ...not just research lol

[ 本帖最后由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-2 21:36 编辑 ]

happysee

原帖由 MsOrange 于 2011-6-2 14:53 发表



是的，如果想承担一定风险，长期持有的话就应该是低点买入吧？

想承担风险的话可以直接在市场买入，跟期权没有必要联系起来。

MsOrange

原帖由 happysee 于 2011-6-2 21:36 发表

想承担风险的话可以直接在市场买入，跟期权没有必要联系起来。

你说得很对。

MsOrange

原帖由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-2 21:34 发表

i am in melb , hopefully the treat is not a bounced cheque lol, by the way ~~ it is skiiiiiil and knowleeeedge ...not just research lol

你是做tax accountant的吗？我可以让他联系你。
其实我仅仅了解一点税法的皮毛，只能说可以稍微帮他research一下很浅显的东西了。但是即使看这些也是似懂非懂。
比如那个 “when you acquire the right in ESS" 我就不太明白究竟是说你取得股票购买权的时间（但尚未购买），还是说你已经购买了股票。还有什么cessation time，完全是雾里看花，呵呵。我自己感觉好像这个acquire the right的时间很重要，好像income的核算时间是和这个时间的股价挂钩的。

xinxin119

i am a sole practitioner ... if he came to me in person, then it will not be free.  lol

time of acquiring right in ess is determined by when you have a fee simple rights on the option. i .e. you have absolute right to exercise the option.

cessation time is when you exercise the option, or option is lapsed  i.e. option ceases to exist

i think they are also rules if the shares are sold within 30 days after exercise or longer than 30 days. .. so, it can be a bit annoying lol.

Anyway,  the company will usually issue a guide to tell what to do in the tax return.

MsOrange

啊 刚注意到你不在悉尼。：（
你讲得很详细了。

xinxin119

原帖由 MsOrange 于 2011-6-3 08:50 发表
啊 刚注意到你不在悉尼。：（
你讲得很详细了。

so~~ whats the reward on answering this ~` "thank you" is just not enough :)

MsOrange

原帖由 xinxin119 于 2011-6-3 10:47 发表



so~~ whats the reward on answering this ~` "thank you" is just not enough :)

你总共得了4分，哈哈哈哈
你得到了pro bono experience
你找到了一个潜在得客户