有请高手

dynamix

原帖由 JuJu 于 2011-3-30 16:02 发表
你们说, 那个political spin 的 spin 有没有特别贴切的中文词? 这么有趣的一个词, 我一直想不出好的中文对应词. 忽悠? 侃晕? 总觉得不够妙...

比如, 记者问Mr O'Farrell的那句话, "You said there would be no more ...

其实有时候你越去想，越不理想。。。。

我感觉你的第一个‘忽悠’就最贴切。

bulaohu

political spinning的时候有无数的记者、学者、反对党盯着，spinning就跟走钢丝一样，要能得到影响大众对某人物或者事件的影响的目的，但如果采用笨拙的愚弄、撒谎、歪曲的手法的话，只能弄巧成拙，成为一场PR disaster。

作家跟hack之间的关系我看不出来跟我的话题有什么联系，36计更是不知道跟这个话题有什么联系。如果你觉得spin doctor是个贬义的词，大可以给ABC radio的Deborah Cameron联系告诉她以后不要当面叫那些PR 公司的老板们spin doctor了，哦，你可能还想要顺便告诉那些公司的老板们spin doctor是个对他们的蔑称，他们看来还不知道呢。

JuJu

这个可能得归功澳洲人的幽默感，浆糊大师确实现在听到不觉得贬意，主持人都是当面就叫那些人spin doctor 的。

JuJu

这个词我觉得还有那方面的意思，象北京侃爷那样似的，一上来就一通自己顾自己的假大空宣传，听着很有理，其实啥实际的也没有说。

Grange

我提到作家就是因为WIKI上的这句话：It is the PR equivalent of calling a writer a "hack". 中文我想我就不用翻译了。如果HACK是贬义的，而两个词又是相等的，那SPIN DOCTOR也应该是贬义的，虽然我不是很肯定。

ABC的节目SPIN DOCTOR我没看过，但我觉得那些人就算不介意，但也不见得会和人自称SPIN DOCTOR的，更可能的是自称PR CONSULTANT。

P.S. 只想讨论+学习，如有冒犯还请见谅。

[ 本帖最后由 Grange 于 2011-3-31 12:56 编辑 ]

JuJu

觉得这个对于spin doctor 的解释比较准确,

If we control the spin, or direction, of an object, we are showing sides of it we want to show while not shedding light on the rest. A spin doctor uses spin control to emphasize or exaggerate the most positive aspect of something.

就是运用一些技巧尽量强调和夸大他们所支持的那派希望公众看到的方面, 以便对自己那派最有利.

dynamix

原帖由 patrickzhu 于 2011-3-31 10:49 发表

用上海话说就更好了
侬（老里八早）伐是刚过不捣政治浆糊的嘛，现在侬那仍又捣了更嘎起劲了呢。。。以刚？

这段让小周立波张冯喜来说效果会比较震撼。。。

bulaohu

原帖由 Grange 于 2011-3-31 13:52 发表
我提到作家就是因为WIKI上的这句话：It is the PR equivalent of calling a writer a "hack". 中文我想我就不用翻译了。如果HACK是贬义的，而两个词又是相等的，那SPIN DOCTOR也应该是贬义的，虽然我不是很肯定。

ABC的节目 ...

我的语气也不太好，没办法，脾气太坏 :) 请不要介意。

Wikipedia是个很有用的网站，但是太美国centric了，我想spin doctor这个词在那边的含义跟在这边很可能会有略微的不同的。所以我更信任本地的广播和电视节目，说到底我们是在学澳洲英语而不是美语。也许是澳洲人一贯的幽默和自嘲的精神在这个词上起了作用，PR专家们也不介意被称为spin doctor，久而久之反而没有明显的贬义了。

JuJu

确实还是越讨论越清楚的, 感谢大家的参与, 这样翻译怎么样?

political spin: 政治公关忽悠

political spin doctor: 政治公关操纵专家

Grange

呵呵，no problemo，版主的中英文我都是很佩服的，在这里学到不少东西。

洋八路

刚才查了一下，感觉上，这个political spin 同 政治舆论导向（意思贴切，中国境内用），政治舆论操纵，政治舆论粉饰，政治宣传（这个缺少了原有的贬义倾向）接近，主要用在媒体公公新闻领域内运用，如果省略舆论这个中间词，就是政治导向，政治操纵，政治粉饰，政治宣传。这几个，我比较喜欢‘政治操纵’这个词。对于公众（我们大家来说）， political spin 就是不同程度操纵新闻媒体，甚至不惜歪曲事实，来达到政治利益 （手法包括，拖延坏消息的发布，故意通过各种渠道散布不实消息/谣言，有针对性的选择记者群体等。）

spin doctor, 是一种 job， 即使 political spin 本身是贬义的，那么 spin doctor 的贬义程度轻一点，本来政治就是很 "丑陋" 的, 这些 “政治舆论幕僚，舆论导向专家，或者政治（舆论）操纵专家” （这几个，我喜欢 “政治舆论幕僚”）。

因为没有相对应的政治环境（或者问问台湾人？），所以没有一个“感觉舒服”的翻译，要算外来语了。说不定就说成 ‘政治死拼’只要大家都明白了，说多了，也就舒服了。

coolioo

就是忽悠

doubleseven

spin doctor 是不是就算是'说客'？

JuJu

不一定是说客, 觉得主要是那些评论政局的专家或者给政客出谋划策的人物.

dynamix

为juju推荐一篇今天的一篇文章帮助理解SPIN的含义。。。

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au ... e0s1g-1226056326583

PEOPLE accused of offences on the state's roads and trains have flooded authorities with almost 90,000 letters of excuse in just four months, with one in five beating the rap.
Drivers and train travellers blamed "mental incapacity", keys locked in cars and faulty ticket machines to avoid paying fines. In the four months to April 14 this year the Office of State Revenue received 87,520 letters - 729 per day - from people offering excuses to avoid paying a fine.

Data from the Office of State Debt Recovery (SDRO) obtained under freedom of information laws shows 18,275 - 152 per day - were successful in stopping the fine.

Of the total number released by the Office of State Revenue, 13,913 were cautions given after a fine was found to have been correctly imposed - 4657 of those because the motorist fined for illegal parking, speeding or travelling through a red light claimed a 10-year clear driving record.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Related CoverageToo-quick travellers abuse the law The Daily Telegraph, 11 Apr 2011
C-word OK, worker wins rant appeal Courier Mail, 4 Mar 2011
Ticket inspector report damning The Australian, 21 Dec 2010
Buses blitz over lost millions The Daily Telegraph, 23 Nov 2010
Train yobs' easy ride runs on Courier Mail, 21 Nov 2010
.End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
There were 43 cautions issued for offenders who claimed they had a mental illness or intellectual disability.

A further 4362 penalty notices were not actioned because it was found the offence had not been committed or there were "mitigating circumstances".

A spokeswoman for the Office of State Revenue said it was believed most of the excuses citing "mental incapacity" related to alleged offences on trains.

"Most of these would be RailCorp [fines] ... a lot of people have been identified as homeless or drug and alcohol-affected," she said.

More than 200 RailCorp passengers were given the benefit of the doubt when they claimed they were not familiar with the NSW rail ticketing system. Almost 30 drivers beat parking fines by stating their keys were lost, stolen or locked in the car.

More than 491 motorists said their vehicle had broken down and a further 301 claimed a faulty parking ticket machine or parking meter.

Fines were imposed on the wrong vehicle, owner or person in 118 cases and were sent to 34 dead people.

The Fines Act was amended in 2008 to give "all law enforcement officers the discretion to give a caution instead of a penalty notice".

"There are all sorts of reasons why fines have been 'no actioned'," the Office of State Revenue said.

dagudboi

原帖由 coolioo 于 2011-4-7 17:40 发表
就是忽悠

做过sales的人应该对这个词的理解最深刻。一般来说是在处于劣势的情况下，靠三寸不烂之舌，把坏的说成好的，把缺点说成优点。Spin本意就是旋转，这里就是指从与己不利的一面转到与己有利的一面。