“东方巴黎”英语怎么说？

kimi

请教：
把旧上海形容成“东方巴黎”，英语怎么说？
谢谢了。

doubleseven

oriental paris?
paris oriental version?
随便说的

见血封喉

Paris of the east

bulaohu

原帖由 doubleseven 于 2010-5-22 16:51 发表
oriental paris?
paris oriental version?
随便说的

Oriental是个含贬义的词，身为亚洲人还是不要使用的好

七月

Paris of the East 的说法比较好，可以用来形容上海、贝鲁特、布达佩斯等繁华的东方城市

[ 本帖最后由 七月 于 2010-5-22 17:34 编辑 ]

doubleseven

不同意布老虎版主的说法。。。。

bulaohu

原帖由 doubleseven 于 2010-5-22 17:33 发表
不同意布老虎版主的说法。。。。

欢迎讨论 - 你为什么不同意？

[ 本帖最后由 bulaohu 于 2010-5-22 17:40 编辑 ]

bulaohu

原帖由 七月 于 2010-5-22 17:32 发表
Paris of the East 的说法比较好，可以用来形容上海、贝鲁特、布达佩斯等繁华的东方城市

就是太抬举巴黎了一点。我觉得还是让法国人习惯说巴黎是西方的上海要好些

doubleseven

布老虎的意思是不是，oriental本身含有贬义？
还是亚洲人用了就有贬义，
西方人用了是中性呢？

因为以前看到过几个BBC纪录片，是用oriental的
我觉得把oriental作为贬义，基本就是类似像有人说chinese因为是ese所以是贬义一样，
太多此一举。

bulaohu

It turned out that urbandictionary explained the situation better than most other sources.

1.         oriental         316 up, 138 down
       
Politically incorrect term used in place of "Asian." Correct usage should be an adjective for things like inanimate objects, not humans.
Correct usage: There's an Oriental rug store on Derbe Drive.
or
Are you going to the Oriental market?

Incorrect usage: Is that dude oriental?
or
Orientals are known to be bad drivers.
by Sean-Paul Dec 1, 2003 share this



2.         oriental         109 up, 74 down
       
Adjective meaning "east"

Comes from the Latin, "Oriens" = east.

Anything east of Europe is Oriental in the Euro-centric mind. That's why Oriental Rugs come from the Persia, not China.

Oriental is associated with European colonialism in China. Especially a British image of China as once great race, but declined and vulnerable to colonization and subjugation. Negro, Coon, and Mic share similar connotations.
Oriental rugs come from Persia
by slk Dec 2, 2004 share this



3.         oriental         41 up, 18 down
       
A word which originally was associated with Asia (including Arabic-speaking regions, Central, South, and East Asia). The term is used for East Asians in British English (where 'Asian' means someone from South Asia; i.e. Pakistan or India). The term is controversial in North America as it is still used in parts of Canada to denote East Asian without racist connotation or denotation; however, in the US it is considered by politically correct people (=people who read Edward Said) to connote the imperialist/colonialist period of European attitudes towards (East) Asians. Usage is, therefore, relative to a) Where you are and b) Who you're talking to. So everybody just relax.
"He is a specialist in East Asian Languages." PC in the USA. However, he might have received his degree from the London School of Oriental and African Languages.

企鹅男孩

oriental本意应该是太阳生起的地方吧，所以指东方

bulaohu

原帖由 doubleseven 于 2010-5-22 17:40 发表
布老虎的意思是不是，oriental本身含有贬义？
还是亚洲人用了就有贬义，
西方人用了是中性呢？

因为以前看到过几个BBC纪录片，是用oriental的
我觉得把oriental作为贬义，基本就是类似像有人说chinese因为是es ...

What I said on 4th floor means that as an Asian yourself (I assume), it's important to understand that "Oriental" is the word used by colonial forces to refer to East Asia. Nowadays the word is Asia, we are Asians, there may be East Asian or South Asian, but Asia(n) is the word. If some white person use the word "oriental" today, he/she is either ignorant or try to insult you in a less confrontational way. For Asians, it's important to make it clear to Europeans that the colonial past is not something we appreciate.

doubleseven

布老虎不觉得这3点，都是纠结在oriental对人的描述上面么？（说实话我不知道这个词是可以用在人身上的,可能是因为有贬义，所以见不到吧）
作为对非人类（这话好怪），这3点解释没有说明任何问题吧。

bulaohu

Suit yourself then. Cheers.

doubleseven

原帖由 bulaohu 于 2010-5-22 17:59 发表


What I said on 4th floor means that as an Asian yourself (I assume), it's important to understand that "Oriental" is the word used by colonial forces to refer to East Asia. Nowadays the word is As ...

1，布老虎指的‘insult’，应该是指对人家如果是拿oriental来称呼个人吧
2，无所谓我们个体对殖民是不是在意。
在上海，哈尔滨这种城市，被殖民遗迹往往是作为一个宣传点。甚至有很多地方会去试图copy殖民产物。（这点是我一直所不明白的）
被殖民过的国家舆论导向其实是在宣扬殖民后的产物。
我作为个人纠结一下，就不去多想了。（这点和oriental没关系，只是就这殖民这件事做下小讨论）

买房子啊

上海那个规划太恶心了

floodp

二三十年以前西方人说东方爱用oriental，最近常用asian或者eastern，只是习惯用法的演变而已，谈不上贬义，这是空中英语教室里的一课讲到的。

JuJu

Oriental是有一定殖民含意的, Paris of the Orient 充满了西方人眼中的东方神秘风情, 在白人眼中好比蝴蝶夫人,西贡小姐似的东方女子,西贡也是被称为Paris of the Orient的.

kimi

坛子里英语高手真多啊.谢谢了.

floraz

放狗看了一下，好像三种说法都有“Paris of the East”, "Oriental Paris" 和 "Paris of the Orient"
上海东方明珠塔好像就叫“The Oriental Pearl Tower”
我个人对oriental这个词没有什么感觉，觉得三种说法均可，不过prefer “Paris of the Orient”
又问了一下同事，她们说这个要根据culture，有人可能take it more seriously，有人无所谓

我想语言也有个人理解的不同，中文，外文都一样
高中时我一开始的英文名字叫Jolly，当时上网用的网名，结果一个年纪比较大的英文老师说这个词不好，有轻浮的意思，让我改掉
后来换了个稍微年轻的英文老师，有一次说起Jolly这个名字，年轻的英文老师就很不解为什么前面那个老师会觉得Jolly这个词不好，她反而觉得有很欢愉的意思
anyway，所以见仁见智的吧

btw please don't get me wrong, re the above discussion, nothing here implies age difference .......

[ 本帖最后由 floraz 于 2010-5-24 17:11 编辑 ]

orange0328

oriental paris

这个是比较地道的说法。之前学口译的时候有学过这个。

JuJu

不知道别人怎么样, 我觉得白人把你看成蝴蝶夫人,西贡小姐之类还是有点offensive的...

bulaohu

原帖由 floraz 于 2010-5-24 17:01 发表
放狗看了一下，好像三种说法都有“Paris of the East”, "Oriental Paris" 和 "Paris of the Orient"
上海东方明珠塔好像就叫“The Oriental Pearl Tower”
我个人对oriental这个词没有什么感觉，觉得三种说法均可 ...

Yes personal preference is a big factor here, and can lead to totally different conclusions towards the same expression/word. What's important here, however, is that we should be aware of the history of this word and its potential implications. Once you are aware of it, you can make up your own mind if it's offensive to you. What's really bad here is not knowing, and that's exactly why I brought this up.

And btw, I personally regard this word as slightly offensive in nature. But only when combined with context and body language should one judge if the person who use it mean to insult, or is simply ignorant.

[ 本帖最后由 bulaohu 于 2010-5-24 21:03 编辑 ]

bulaohu

原帖由 JuJu 于 2010-5-24 19:00 发表
不知道别人怎么样, 我觉得白人把你看成蝴蝶夫人,西贡小姐之类还是有点offensive的...

殖民主义在西方文化里的影响确实是很根深蒂固的。素质比较高的西方人明白殖民主义的错误，也比较注意尽量用中性和第三者的语言来谈论相关话题；但大多数人是不懂得殖民对这个世界的伤害的。

azurechris

我只知道oriental or continental food,  大致中性。。。和老虎学习了不少呢。。。国内那个响当当的新东方好像还叫的是Oriental?

azurechris

Occidental 又是啥，有没有语言色彩