聊聊网球

peteandrew

看到很少人聊网球，想发个帖子聊网球。

peteandrew

在一本书上看到有一位名教练说“职业选手多使用侧下旋作为二发。因为侧上旋落地后弹得比较高。更有利于对手进攻。”

“职业选手多使用侧下旋作为二发”这句话对我的震动不小，完全颠覆了我对网球的理解。希望论坛的网球大虾能给我一些指点，求证一下这话是真的还是假的。

Nocturnal

do you play tennis at all? i doubt you need to worry about that if you play at amateur level. if you dont play, then there are many areas of the professional game that you wont understand anyway.

slice serve has much less pace and bounce compared to top spin serve, it will not easily allow the receiver to attack the serve, not sure why you are so surprised about that. Also, as you have said, you read in "one" book which mentioned that "one" coach has the opionion slice serve is a better option for the second serve. that is just one coach's opinion, its not a general rule or law.

if your serve is good enough, you can try any serve on second serve. i sometimes serve harder on the second serve to get ace or surprise the receiver to move into favourable position.

peteandrew

我也打网球，发球也不错。
我之所以很惊奇，是因为这是前中国网球队总教练说的话，而不是普通教练说的，很具权威性。看来你没看懂他说的话，是“职业选手多使用侧下旋作为二发”是多使用侧下旋而不是上旋。或许我的理解有误，指的是他们发 侧旋时用下旋。我也发过这种球，威力真的很低。

Nocturnal

well, tennis is not that big, so i dont know how that coach's opinion will be viewed by his global peers.

anyway, are you in sydney or mel

peteandrew

in Mel

kimi

不是不想聊，而是LZ的水平比较高。
我能保证发球的成功率就很好了，偶尔发个外角侧旋的就开心了不得。
LZ讲的实在超出我辈水平了啊。

peteandrew

水平高或低都无所谓，只要聊得开心就行了。欢迎！
要发球好就得多练。每星期练它300~500个，你的发球肯定进步很快。
看来KIMI还是喜欢把时间花在F1上。

haze_2828

超喜欢看,但实在是没那个体力打

peteandrew

其实如果网球打得好的话，不用费很多体力的。就像费德勒那样，但当他遇到NADAL的时候就是一种例外。

peteandrew

看来，这里聊网球的人不多。
开一个大一点的话题。你认为什么在网球里最重要？
随便发表意见，想到什么就聊什么吧

jasonliu234

心理素质

sunnyfish

战术最重要,当然没有一定的基本功什么都白费力气.

0URSTEPS_Local

SparkKJ 最近在华网俱乐部的帖子聊了一下网球哪方面最重要，觉得很有道理，转发一下
》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》》
至于哪方面最重要, 就要看你的目的是什么了.
上面提到的最重要的几点,无论是说发球,或者正手,都是对的, 在其他综合水平及其相似的情况下, 任何一项技术强于对方一点点, 都有可能为你拿下比赛的胜利. 但这只是在技术层面上,而真正赢得比赛最重要的是心理.   对于一场比赛来说,如果对手技术水平强你太多,或者差太多, 这都不会成为一场激烈的比赛, 甚至都不能称为比赛, 只能用蹂躏来形容, 而一场你自己会认为难忘的, 激烈的比赛,必定是会在2个水平差不多的选手之间进行的, 也只有打这样的比赛才会对自己提升有最大的帮助. 当双方技术差不多的时候, 比赛比的就是心理了.  可能有时候我们看完一场比赛, 说A赢了,是因为A的发球比较好, 得分率比较高, 所以最终结果A赢了, 不错,从数据上来看是这样的, 但这也是表面的, 而其背后隐藏的东西,可能就是A的心理素质比对手好. 因为当面临关键分,压力,等因素的时候, 由于情绪的波动,会造成身体激素分泌水平的波动,从而会出现肌肉僵直无力,反映迟钝等情况,也就是我们常说的紧张. 紧张这个词还是很形象的, 这个状态下,人的肌肉就是非常紧, 运动能力急剧下降, 而紧张会直接影响技术动作的发挥. 就算发球是自己的强项,但当肌肉僵直的时候, 它会变成自己失分的强项. 好的心理素质,能有效控制自己的情绪波动,从而避免各种坏的身体情况发生, 甚至还能爆发出平时120%的能力.   
用一个瓶子来形容一个人的综合水平的话,  瓶子的容量是这个人的技术,体能战术等, 瓶子的口径是这个人的心理.  比赛结果就是看在相同时间内谁最终倒出来的水最多,谁就赢了.  再怎么大的瓶子,如果口径太小,怎么样也是倒不出太多水来的, 同样, 口径太大, 瓶子太小,一倒就光了, 全倒出来也没多少水.  对于我们业余选手,特别是不常比赛的来说, 通常来说是瓶子过大,口径过小, 所以最立杆见影的方法是扩大口径, 等口径和瓶子容量成比例后,再慢慢提升瓶子容量, 当然同时也不要忘记扩充一下口径.

0URSTEPS_Local

原帖由 kimi 于 2010-5-21 16:29 发表
不是不想聊，而是LZ的水平比较高。
我能保证发球的成功率就很好了，偶尔发个外角侧旋的就开心了不得。
LZ讲的实在超出我辈水平了啊。

，

还只是在把一发发进的阶段，不过二发还凑合，LZ说的上旋，侧下旋都有用到，但是速度太慢，在和周围的朋友圈子里打还凑合，几次碰见了高手，都是一个大角度接一个网前就被灭掉了。

0URSTEPS_Local

原帖由 Nocturnal 于 2010-5-21 11:32 发表
do you play tennis at all? i doubt you need to worry about that if you play at amateur level. if you dont play, then there are many areas of the professional game that you wont understand anyway.

s ...

Good point that is just one coach's opinion, its not a general rule or law.
Both top spin server and slice server have been largely used by ATP players, at least from the match we can see.

[ 本帖最后由 0URSTEPS_Local 于 2010-5-24 22:29 编辑 ]

Nocturnal

most important thing is fitness level and serve, at least for people on amateur level. these 2 aspects can be fully controlled by you. there is no use talking about mental toughness when you are not fully fit or serving well.

Too many people say they have good forehand but when they play an actual match, they can only play at their best for maybe 1 -1.5 set. mental toughness is not going to help when there is no fitness to back it up.

peteandrew

原帖由 Nocturnal 于 2010-5-24 22:53 发表
most important thing is fitness level and serve, at least for people on amateur level. these 2 aspects can be fully controlled by you. there is no use talking about mental toughness when you are not f ...

Quite right. Serve is the soul of tennis.

Nocturnal

winning a tennis match is all about keeping your servicing game and breaking the opponent's servicing game. a strong serve will be able to ensure a quick winning service game for you and apply huge pressure to the opponent's servicing game.

a good forehand and backhand is very important too but you cant develop that without a good hitting partner (who will be hard to find, unless you pay for a coach). developing a good serve however can be done by yourself, so is fitness level. So my point is if you have not tried to fully develop a strong serve and be fully fit, focusing on mental toughness is really leading down the wrong path. It is good in theory but on amateur level, when so little is at stake (no prize money, no ranking points, no fame, only the pleasure of winning another amateur player) mental toughness is rarely needed.

An example is that if you are down 0-5 in deciding set of a best of 3 set match against an amateur opponent, with little at stake, how likely are you going to call on your mental toughness and claw yourself out of a huge hole?

If you are not mentally tough and you get nervous in the match so you cant play at your full level, but provided you are fully fit (an aspect of the game you can control), playing against an opponent of average fitness, you still will have an edge assuming skill levels are similar.

peteandrew

Nocturnal的中文也很好，为什么老写英文呢？
要到心理层面的较量，那已经不是一般的业余球员了。
其实步法在网球里的重要性往往被低估了。如果有好的发球加上良好的步法，你的网球不会差到哪里去。

Nocturnal

typing english at work is much quicker hehe.

do people follow the french open this year. Andy Murray probably got the worst first round opponent this year against Frenchmen Richard Gasquet. Gasquet came to the french open from just claiming a title and having home crowd advantage and ranked 45 in the world. Murray was down first 2 sets and down a break in 3rd set, before fighting hard to beat Gasquet in 5 sets. very unlucky draw for both players. I watched the match on Fox a little bit, very high quality match.

rjliang

:)

[ 本帖最后由 rjliang 于 2010-5-25 17:03 编辑 ]

凡戈

双打发球和网前就比单打更重要.

tk2115330

原帖由 jasonliu234 于 2010-5-24 16:45 发表
心理素质

对职业选手来讲,心理素质最重要,如海宁;战术次之.

tk2115330

原帖由 peteandrew 于 2010-5-21 10:05 发表
在一本书上看到有一位名教练说“职业选手多使用侧下旋作为二发。因为侧上旋落地后弹得比较高。更有利于对手进攻。”

“职业选手多使用侧下旋作为二发”这句话对我的震动不小，完全颠覆了我对网球的理解。希望论坛 ...

That Chinese coach's view is wrong.

In general,Flat serve and slice serve(侧下旋,正手位serve)are uesd as first serve,it depends on opponent's position.

Kick serve or topspin is normally 二发.

0URSTEPS_Local

原帖由 Nocturnal 于 2010-5-25 10:09 发表
winning a tennis match is all about keeping your servicing game and breaking the opponent's servicing game. a strong serve will be able to ensure a quick winning service game for you and apply huge pr ...

良好的身体素质、各种击球基本技术以及适应长时间紧张比赛的耐久力，是比赛中获胜的关键.
对于一场比赛来说,如果对手技术水平强你太多,或者差太多, 这都不会成为一场激烈的比赛, 甚至都不能称为比赛, 只能用蹂躏来形容（引用parkKJ语），心理也就无从谈起。

Your example of "Down 0-5 in deciding set of a best of 3 set match against an amateur opponent, with little at stake, how likely are you going to call on your mental toughness and claw yourself out of a huge hole?"  does not really apply to mental strength,  looks like these two player are not in the same levle of technical and fitness in the first instance, hence no meaning to discuss about Mental strength.

Mental will only play key part if both player have similiar technical(Including Server, Forehand, Backhane, Volley etc) and fitness level, does not matter which level we are.

Otherwise what is make the difference? i.e Andy Murray vs. Frenchmen Richard Gasquet, we can say Gasquet lost the match due to fitness or due to mental weakness.

:)

Nocturnal

the answer is due to fitness level, Gasquet said it himself. "I was just really really tired"

down 0-5 can happen sometimes to players on similar skill level. Federer was given a 0-6 set in a french open final against nadal. in reverse, nadal was give 0-6 set in a claycourt masters match against federer. would you explain that as huge gap in player skill level? all it takes is a loss of concentration and belief by 1 player against another player who is reallly focused and hitting well on a given day.

my point is, as we are not professionals and we are playing for very little stakes, there are very few incentives for mental toughness to make a play in a match. when we experience big gaps in score, we are unlikely to call on mental toughness (or more so unwilling) to fight back. thus mental toughness is of little use in an amateur match. when one amateur player beats another player on similar level, i dont think mental toughness is the key. one player might not be as focused or when score gap widens, less willing to contribute further energy on a most certain lost match.

dizzypiggy

(paopaobing(3))

peteandrew

昨晚萨芬娜对伊达宫子的球很好地解析mental toughness。没想到萨芬娜的心理如此地脆弱。伊达的正手动作看起来就像业余球员，但她那颗心是萨芬娜无可比拟的。什么叫网球，我想萨芬娜应该好好向伊达请教这个问题了。如果她还是一根筋走到底，就凭她的移动，很难再有翻身之日了。

Nocturnal

safina is a rare mentally weak professional athelete. other players which had her commending lead against a much lowly ranked, old aged player would not have suffered her loss. in other words, her problem is not really mental toughness, she is likely to be suffering from mental illness