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楼主:intionfang

双簧管学习咨询帖 [复制链接]

发表于 2016-9-18 22:01 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 intionfang 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 intionfang 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
cosifan 发表于 2016-9-18 20:42
我小孩也在学这个。 今年1月开始学,老师让明年去考3级。这个乐器冷门的连考级书都没有,

小孩吹 ...

这位家长似乎对小孩的双簧管学习有一些烦恼,不过这也正是本帖存在的意义所在。我在想老师对小孩的要求是否过于专业,或者没有找到适合你小孩的一个训练方法。不太知道你小孩是什么年龄,什么背景,我也不能给出比较具体的方法,不过我想每个小孩只要有老师悉心辅导,最后都是可以学好的。家长在贴中提到了不少比较专业的问题,我可以在此一一解答:

关于考级:我个人认为考级是对于自己能力的一种肯定,如果学了一定的时间想要让别人肯定一下自己的能力,大家都会去参加考级。市面上我知道AMEB是有双簧管考级教材的,耐心找一下应该可以找到。不过我想不要因为急于考级而打击了小孩的学习兴趣,这个还是要注意的

关于音色:初学者吹出来的声音像鸭子叫是十有八九的。音色取决于很多很多的因素,可以说世界最一流的双簧管演奏家最后较量的很多还是音色上的比较。一般初学双簧管声音太薄(像鸭子)无外乎几个因素:1. 哨片修的太薄 2. 气息不对 3. 嘴型不对

1. 哨片可以适当尝试厚一些的,不过这个也要看小孩有多少的嘴劲如何。一般厚一点的声音会比较暗,比较沉而薄的比较亮有时候控制的不好会听起来刺耳

2.气息简单点说要气运丹田,不过这个说起来容易,做起来难。真正练好气息是需要时间去修炼以及积累的,这也就是我们所谓的基本功。一个比较快的检测方法就是看你小孩吹得时候用的是腹式呼吸还是胸式呼吸。这个和唱歌一样,如果用胸式呼吸唱出来的声音会比较干,比较瘪。另外气要做到是“哈”出来的而不是“啊”出来的,这也是我教的一个比较快的检验气息的方法

3. 嘴型也是比较容易检测的。我相信如果你小孩吹出的音色比较薄的很大一部分原因是嘴唇在卡哨片。你不妨试试看看一下你小孩吹完乐器下嘴唇是否有很深的牙齿印,我相信他肯定是有的。这个产生的原因是因为嘴劲不足,会造成吹奏时通过挤压哨片来发声。这个问题也没有快速的解决方法,需要一定时间的训练,用嘴角的肌肉去控制而不是通过牙齿去挤压嘴唇。

一般我对我学生的教导是第一年着重基本功的训练,不要过多去追求技巧上的难度。我会注重以上三点(哨片,气息,嘴型)的训练,这也就是为了将来可以吹出甜美的音色打好扎实的基础。

最后我说的是关于乐器。之所以把这一点放在最后是因为乐器是应该我们考虑各种因素的最后一个,因为我们不可能一味地追求高价乐器而应该想办法通过自身的努力来弥补乐器上的不足。双簧管的好坏永远是30%取决于客观条件 (乐器,哨片)而70%取决于个人,所以绝对不能在乐器上有太多的要求。一个$3000的Yamaha乐器应该足以满足业余双簧管爱好者的需求,除非要往音乐专业发展,一般练练这个级别的足够了。至于您小孩老师说的$20的Reed才能吹我是绝对不认同的,一般专业演奏家平时练习和登台表演,会有好几个不同类型风格的哨片。简单点说,平时练习用的哨片一般淘宝,ebay买的足够满足需求。另外哨片要看怎么去修,一般买的国产哨片经过有经验的双簧管演奏者的调整完全可以达到超出$20哨片的效果。不过现在市面上可能会为学生去精心修哨片的老师不多了,不过我可以说这个非常非常重要。

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发表于 2016-9-18 22:10 |显示全部楼层
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intionfang 发表于 2016-9-17 17:01
这个也看作品风格。拿圆号来说,最耳熟能详的是蓝色多瑙河,开头的便是圆号solo。乐队中的solo就是一种乐 ...

还有星球大战的主旋律,都是圆号的,孩子们好喜欢

发表于 2016-9-19 07:03 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 sashaaston 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 sashaaston 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
请问是不是单双簧管,笛子这些木管乐器要想吹的好,小孩子的牙齿特别是前排牙齿要比较齐,如果先天牙齿缺失是不是没有可能学好这类乐器?

发表于 2016-9-19 08:29 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 intionfang 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 intionfang 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
sashaaston 发表于 2016-9-19 07:03
请问是不是单双簧管,笛子这些木管乐器要想吹的好,小孩子的牙齿特别是前排牙齿要比较齐,如果先天牙齿缺失 ...

牙齿齐不齐我觉得影响不会很大。如果前排有缺牙可能会有一定的影响吧。

发表于 2016-9-19 12:49 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 All_Black 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 All_Black 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
ajian_lj 发表于 2016-9-17 17:35
请问你女儿之前学过什么乐器吗?多大开始学习的?


我女儿之前学过钢琴,钢琴学了四五年吧,双簧管从8岁开始学, 后来进了学校乐队,一直在吹。。到现在也快8-9 年了。。

发表于 2016-9-19 13:13 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 勤劳的海狸 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 勤劳的海狸 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
cosifan 发表于 2016-9-18 20:42
我小孩也在学这个。 今年1月开始学,老师让明年去考3级。这个乐器冷门的连考级书都没有,

小孩吹 ...

我知道单簧管是有考级的,双簧管没有?
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发表于 2016-9-19 17:58 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 intionfang 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 intionfang 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
勤劳的海狸 发表于 2016-9-19 13:13
我知道单簧管是有考级的,双簧管没有?

有的 可以google一下AMEB oboe

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发表于 2016-9-19 19:28 |显示全部楼层
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cosifan 发表于 2016-9-18 20:42
我小孩也在学这个。 今年1月开始学,老师让明年去考3级。这个乐器冷门的连考级书都没有,

小孩吹 ...

双簧管当然有考级呀,谁说考试的书没有,你小孩老师如果这么说,你肯定应该换老师,这是什么老师,连考级都不知道。双簧管和钢琴一样。双簧管找老师特别关键,。

发表于 2016-9-22 12:12 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 taow 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 taow 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Some interesting words written by my son's teacher's husband, a professional flutist

COMPARATIVE WOODWINDS

In presenting a “comparative woodwind” session for the VMTA's Summer Conference, I confined myself to the flute, recorder, oboe, bassoon, clarinet and saxophone. Mindful that the audience would range from highly knowledgeable to blissfully ignorant, I tried to cover the main bases with material ranging from banal to insightful.

“Familiarity breeds contempt” we are told. This is not a happy outlook for the much-maligned recorder, the best-known of the woodwinds. St. Paul said “When I was a child, I spoke as a child and thought as a child, but now I am become a man I have put away the things of a child.” This is advice which all too many promising young recorder players have acted upon when beginning High School. The ubiquitous and overworked recorder has borne the stigma of “primary school tool” for too long.

In reality it is a highly expressive instrument capable of virtuosic display. It does however, present certain challenges. Its very simplicity makes it highly effective in simpler keys, but renders chromatic passages extremely difficult, hence its fine record in music of the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries. Modern composers have produced much engaging and challenging literature for the recorder in both solo and ensemble form, and virtuosi like our own Genevieve Lacy provide fine models across all forms. It will hardly come as a surprise that the most effective recorder groups are those which are led by dedicated and well-supported individuals, either in studios or schools.

Intra-group peer support seems to be an important factor in actively establishing respect for the instrument and its repertoire. And since nothing grows from nothing, the fine work of many hundreds of recorder groups across the country must be acknowledged. The teachers who run these groups have been responsible for seeding many careers, mostly on other instruments. In many cases these teachers are the thin red line between culture and the forces of materialism. I would love to see the work of these teachers carried on to higher levels by their talented graduates.

The flute, which we also know well in its metal form, developed from the recorder, and features an array of keys. The early flute looked rather like a recorder but was held sideways. The sound was produced by blowing across the mouth-hole, splitting the air stream. The recorder channels the airstream down a tunnel, and the stream splits against a fipple (or little ledge) which is fixed in place. The angle of the air stream on the fipple is fixed – you can't change it.

On a flute, you can change this angle, giving the player more control. When the English player, Nicholson, produced a bigger sound than his continental counterparts, they were very annoyed. They found that his flute had large finger holes, producing a bigger sound – he had enormous hands. Boehm, the German flautist, produced an instrument with large holes, but closed them by an ingenious system of levers and springs, which is the modern flute, capable of three octaves at dazzling speeds.
The primitive flute of Mozart's time (he didn't dislike the flute, just abhorred the poor intonation so frequently encountered on it) was soon superseded by the instrument we know today. The lowest register is problematic for the young player, as the tone is naturally weak. This is not an insuperable problem, but needs consistent and dedicated work.

The commonest complaint for a beginner is dizziness. This is merely oxygen surfeit from frequent blowing attempts, and passes quickly. The next problem is the inability to produce a sound. If the player can produce an airstream of the right velocity and focus, the flute (or just the head for starters) can be brought into line with the stream, thereby starting the tone. It then becomes a “knack”. Some have it right away, and others take a considerable time achieving it, but ultimately may do just as well.

Flutes have no reeds, and few moving parts to service. Maintenance is generally inexpensive, and the instrument itself not hard to acquire. Flute groups are fun and are found in most schools. Tuning adjustment is done firstly, by pulling the head joint out a little (this makes the instrument longer, and therefore flatter), or conversely, pushing it further in to make it sharper (often necessary in Winter). This is only an approximate tuning, and the player gradually learns to adjust for more refined tuning, by turning the head joint outwards (sharper) or inwards (flatter). These adjustments are necessary to counteract the tendency of the flute to play sharper in “f” and flatter in “p” dynamics.

One problem for the young flautist is the difficulty of finding solo spots on such a popular instrument. One solution for some has been to play the oboe. It looks rather like the clarinet, being small and black. However, it is a reed instrument, the reed being a double-bladed piece of cane (really “Arunda Donax” the Mediterranean giant grass from southern France). Whereas the flute player communes with their muse in a natural singing style, the oboe player must come to grips with the reed, which provides considerable resistance.

Sitting behind orchestral oboists, one is in no doubt of the back pressure involved, which results in bulging collars and eyes. As you would expect, this is not completely necessary, and there are many players who play beautifully with minimal resistance. This said, it must be acknowledged that the oboe is a very physical instrument. Early efforts at the oboe can be hard to live with, but modest gains become very effective. “A little oboe goes a long way” would seem to be the maxim of many a composer. Pick up the woodwind books of major Symphonies, operas and ballets, and you will find thick volumes for the clarinet, flute and even the bassoon, but the oboe volume is a slim one.

The oboe has two and a half octaves compared to the flute's three and the clarinet and bassoon's three and a half. Good composers realise that the instrument must be used sparingly, for both aesthetic and practical purposes. However, the oboe has a disproportionate number of highly expressive solos to play, making it a satisfying and rewarding instrument. As with the all woodwinds, a good ear is necessary to make the final adjustments in tuning, mainly through altering lip pressure.

The student oboe is usually at least twice the price of the flute, reeds can be expensive, and a specialist teacher is advisable, particularly with reed selection and adjustment.

The oboe's close relative is the bassoon, the tall chimney-like instrument lurking in the orchestra. Most non-musicians, upon being shown a picture of a bassoon, will identify it as the oboe, the sound of which word reminds them of the tone of the bassoon. This is an understandable mistake, based of course, in ignorance.

If you would correct them most bassoonists will be deeply in your debt. The heyday of the bassoon is long gone. Vivaldi wrote 50 concerti for it, Mozart 4 and Weber 1. Yet in that period the expressive powers of the orchestral bassoon increased enormously. The bassoon is a creature of half-moods. In its native register one would use the cello for lushness of tone. With the bassoon one gets dignity. For power the trombone is unrivalled. The bassoon offers earnestness. The French Horn gives grandeur, while the bassoon offers quirkiness. The bass clarinet, snarling, suggest evil, but the bassoon can only manage cantankerousness.

You will hear the bassoon as an unrivalled spare-parts instrument, colouring a cello solo, offering a woody octave sound to the clarinets, being, for all practical purposes, a fifth horn here, and a third trombone there. In chamber groups too, the bassoon is popular and useful. The bassoonist is never short of colleagues, all of whom want that warm, solid bass to underpin their efforts. The reed is larger and more forgiving than the oboe, and the amount of back pressure is quite a satisfying one.

Expense may be a problem, as most school bassoons could cost as much as two flutes, two clarinets and an oboe all put together (or, roughly, six flutes, or five clarinets or three oboes or dozens of recorders). All the instruments so far mentioned are in concert pitch. That means that they can play piano music unaltered.

Now the picture changes. May I introduce – the clarinet! Like the flute and the oboe, pressing down the first second and third fingers of the left (upper) hand, gives us three descending tones. On the flute and oboe and recorder, these are B A and G. On the clarinet, these are called E D and C. However they sound D C and Bb, a tone lower than their names. Consequently, clarinet music must be specially written a tone higher to compensate. There are many instruments like this, and their pitch is named after their named note C. The alto saxophone, playing a written C, sounds Eb a sixth below. It is, in consequence, the Alto Sax in Eb. Other instruments like this are the French Horn, Trumpet, Cor Anglais and Alto flute, just to name a few. It's an historical accident that they have turned out like this. For example, the C Melody saxophone was popular in the 1920s, but eventually it proved to have neither the mellifluousness of the alto or the virility of the tenor saxophones, so was abandoned.

Like the flute, the clarinet is an extremely nimble instrument, featuring the same Boehm system of keys levers and springs used on the flute. However, there is an anomaly in the clarinet sound as it comes out considerably deeper than one would expect for an instrument of this size. This is because it acts as a stopped pipe, the vibrating column of air being a U-shaped one, twice the length of the instrument. This gives a pleasant woody, hollow sound n the bottom register which is easy to learn and admits of fast progress.

However, on the left thumb is a special key, known on the other instruments as an “octave key”. Press this and tighten the embouchure, and suddenly, you're singing soprano. Try this on clarinet and you are in for a shock-the note jumps not eight notes, but twelve. In the upper register one has to re-learn the clarinet. The home sequence of notes in the bottom register is F Major, like a treble recorder, but in the upper register it is C major, like a descant recorder.

Since the clarinet is an instrument of the mid-eighteenth century, it has little baroque or early music, but much has been adapted, with varying degrees of success. It was a highly popular instrument in the 30s and 40s in the hands of the swing masters, but has largely been overshadowed in jazz by its glamorous cousin, the saxophone.

The saxophone was invented in the 1840s and has prospered. It looks like a highly complicated instrument, but in reality all that metal key-work enables a simple technique over two and a half octaves. The precision demanded of a clarinet player's fingers in sealing the finger holes is considerably relaxed on saxophone, the pearl buttons being quite forgiving of less-than-perfect finger placement. Saxophone tone is powerful and manipulable, enabling fast progress, but also allowing great freedom of expression in the right hands. The low notes are hard to produce unless the instrument is maintained in top condition – rarely the case in hard-worked school instruments.

The alto is the best known, and is in Eb, while the larger tenor is in Bb, an octave below the alto. The baritone is rarely privately owned, because of expense, but is an essential part of the stage band saxophone section, and provides a rich bass for the sax section. There is much literature, in both “classical” and contemporary styles, to engage and entertain the young saxophonist. As a family, the woodwinds are highly individualistic and colourful. They are worth getting to know even if occasionally temperamental, and will provide a rewarding relationship.

发表于 2016-9-23 08:35 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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勤劳的海狸 发表于 2016-9-14 19:36
请问了解Fench horn吗?这个和双簧管有什么可比性吗?

我儿子吹法国号的,九岁开始,目前学了两年。法国号入门的时候比较难吹出音来,它吹的口型是嘴唇拢起然后“璞”出来的感觉,我和老公在儿子刚学的时候都兴致勃勃想跟着一起学。结果吹得满脸通红连个音都吹不出,而且吹久一点嘴唇就发麻发痒。号特别重,原来租学校的,今年买了一个入门级的雅马哈要4000多,每年一次的保养要 500,主要是冲洗铜管,上油。独奏曲子很多啊,斯特劳斯的夜曲、圣桑的罗曼史都很好听,还有许多电影主题曲,哈利波特、星球大战、超人、007、指环王……法国号真的很缺,能吹的人本来就少,能把曲子吹好听的更少,气一泻、嘴唇肌肉一疲劳,整首歌一溜下去全部变调了。

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发表于 2016-9-23 08:35 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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intionfang 发表于 2016-9-19 08:29
牙齿齐不齐我觉得影响不会很大。如果前排有缺牙可能会有一定的影响吧。 ...

抱歉LZ,好像歪楼了。

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