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[地区选择] 清真寺扩建事件 已顺利解决 感谢大家的团结一致 [复制链接]

发表于 2013-11-10 23:54 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 bluecanthus 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 bluecanthus 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 bluecanthus 于 2014-11-6 11:02 编辑

清真寺扩建事件 已顺利解决 感谢大家的团结一致

为避免帖子被删
请大家不要鼓动全体华人针对穆斯林 我们只对事不对人
请大家考虑新足迹平台的中立立场 不要发表过激言论 使得新足迹难做
请大家不要鼓动只是扩大知情权让附近的居明自己做出对事件的研判


第一步:分析事件对周边的严重影响

本帖最后由 盐商格格 于 2013-11-8 11:50 编辑


昨晚研究了一下, 那个提案自己暴露了几个最大的问题是:

1. 按council的规定, 它必须有至少19个on-site的停车位, 如果参加人数多可能还要更多. 可事实上它一个也没有, 如果要19个车位, 按照它的地的大小, 它就造不起来了. 他们的解释是他们调查过了, 礼拜五下午1-2点时周围4百米内有足够的车位. 而且周围有公共交通.

但是, 事实上去敬拜的大都开车, 4百米的调查距离显然太大, 没人愿意停400米以外, 而且故意选了school zone之前的时间来调查, 完全忽略了2点以后来学校接放学学生的家长停车需要. 按照周围学校的数量, 到时候附近停车的拥挤情况, 很可能被大大低估了.

2. 交通拥挤的情况, council已经指出了交通是个问提, 而且到时候可能需要关闭forest road上的一条道来维持交通. 申请对这个问题没有作出明确的答复.

3. 那个喊经塔的高度明显超标了, 马路一边的限高是9米, 另一边是12米. 这个塔高超过30米, 超标准太多. 申请书上的理由是其它清真寺的塔还要高, 各人觉得这点也是抓住做文章的机会.

4. 另外, 申请书说平时只有50个人参加, 节日100个人, 各人认为这个明显故意低估了, 不然需要造这么大吗?

5. 申请书还说, 那个塔不用来喊经, 只是装饰作用. 这个也不可信, 一旦批准了, 他开始喊经了, council能怎么办? 谁敢去拆那个塔?



本帖最后由 盐商格格 于 2013-11-8 12:14 编辑


1. 个人认为除了往上投票, 直接发email或是电话给自己的councillor可能更有效, 让他们有一个直接的感觉这事反对的人真多, 反对的他们都怕了.

2. 告诉住在清真寺附近1-2公里内的认识的人, 别他们还蒙在鼓里.

3. 如果那里上学或是参加教会, 要和校长和牧师去交流.

4. 如果住在这区域里, 和自己的邻居交流, 哪怕打印一些很简单的纸条塞在信箱里, 告诉他们有这事, 如何去反对. 必竟住这附近的穆斯林很少, 大都是不知道的人, 但是估计对大的清真寺也会有反感.

5. 有时间的人更可以直接去council提出口头反对, 人一多对他们的所有工作人员都会有心理作用


本帖最后由 资深潜水员 于 2013-11-8  编辑

这个报告后面更搞笑:

1。 说这个清真寺距离Penshurst火车站仅仅700米,所以估计很多来聚会的会使用公共交通。我忍不住要笑了, 这个写报告的是什么脑子,怎么依此就可以得出这样的结论?对于人的行为模式有没有粗浅的研究啊?人拖家带口去聚会,坐火车的几率有多大,会因为距离火车站仅仅700米就坐火车吗?

2。 对于周边沿街停车位的统计,把距离400米范围内的都算上不说,还包括所有1/4P和1P的,哥们儿你不是让人聚会15分钟急忙出来挪车吧?恐怕2P都不够啊。

3。更搞的来了,后面居然把Hurstville这边所有的停车设施都囊括进来了,因为写报告的认为有人可能会先来购物,然后把车停这边,走1.5公里(据称大约15分钟,你倒是试试!)过去聚会!
(嗨!回家吃了药再来写报告吧!)


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dynamix + 5 感谢分享
墨尔本大伟 + 4 旗帜鲜明的赞同
Andy6211 + 2 费心啦

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发表于 2013-11-10 23:59 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 bluecanthus 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 bluecanthus 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
第二 策略

根据盐商格格格的分析,为了环境受到不可避免的影响 为了当地具名的生活和孩子们的学习环境我们该如何做?

1 网络反对是最有效的手段 推荐

- 地点:445 Forest Road, PENSHURST. 就是在pole depot社区活动中心的旁边, 以前是个小房子
-  要建: 一大一小两个圆顶清真寺, 外加一个30m高的清真建筑. (对的, 你没看错, 就是 30米!)
- 查询相关development application :
http://daenquiry.hurstville.nsw. ... master/Default.aspx
DA号码: DA2013/0315

- 填写反对的地方
http://www.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/Submission-on-DA.html

好像截止日期到11月15号, 得抓紧, 批了就没办法了

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参与人数 1积分 +6 收起 理由
帅虎 + 6 维州人民支持一下!我也上网站反对了哦~.

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发表于 2013-11-11 00:00 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 bluecanthus 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 bluecanthus 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
2 email也是非常有效的建议 相比电话

联系方式:DA:Council's Development Assessment Office, Laura Locke.  93306222  on hold 就可以转到客服直接要求LAURAweekday between 9.00am and 11am.

Email:hccmail@hurstville.nsw.gov.au subject:Development Application Enquiry: DA2013/0315

=============================================================================================
我觉得EMAIL 是最有力的。因为发EMAIL 可以保证DA OFFICER 可以看到,保证COUNCILLER 可以看到,而且是证据。 你个人有多个EMAIL邮箱地址,就多发

Email to : hccmail@hurstville.nsw.gov.au 
CC to: nliu@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, cwu@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, dsin@hurstville.nsw.gov.au,jjacovou@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, rkastanias@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, mstevens@hurstville.nsw.gov.au,psansom@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, vbadalati@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, jmining@hurstville.nsw.gov.au,chindi@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, cdrane@hurstville.nsw.gov.au, aistephan@hurstville.nsw.gov.au

subject:Development Application Enquiry: DA2013/0315
=============================================================================================

议员联系方式:

peakhurst, penhurst, hurstville, 所有议员联络号码:
1. Deputy Mayor, Councillor Nancy Liu,Mobile:0434 327 845 Phone:9586 0625 Email:nliu@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
2. Penshurst方面主管人 Councillor Christina Wu:0400 241 851     email: cwu@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
5. Rita Kastanias: rkastanias@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
6. Emeritus Mayor: psansom@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
7: Michelle Stevens: mstevens@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
8. Con Hindi: chindi@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
9. Justin Mining: jmining@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
10: Vince Badalati: vbadalati@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
11. Colin Drane  cdrane@hurstville.nsw.gov.au
12. Andrew Istephan: aistephan@hurstville.nsw.gov.au

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参与人数 1积分 +10 收起 理由
Poweregg + 10 我很赞同

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发表于 2013-11-11 00:04 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 bluecanthus 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 bluecanthus 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
3网络签名 已有319人,但似乎停止不前了 但时间却不多了 只有4天了

网上签名:

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/objection-to-expansion-of-the-mosque-in-penshurst-reject-da-application-for-the-mosque-at-445-forest-road-penshurst

来了澳洲只埋头买房子,培养上OC、精英的牛蛙,但不参与政治是不够的。虽然已经搬出hurstville了,但还有家人朋友住这一带,那个寺的样子太恶心了,一想到一大群带包头的男性经常性出入就开始担心。怕那个council网上的个人反对不够,打算收集一些签名后再寄信给几个councillors。反对理由我在petition上写了,这里也把大意的中文写了, 愿意网上支持的足友在页面的右边把自己的名字和email填上就行了,有顾虑的不需要填写真实名字,e-签名的记录列表只显示名字、邮编号两项。我到时如果能拿到比较多的签名(50以上)就打印出来寄几个councillors. 请大家多多支持,能网上支持的支持一下,不愿意的,也顶一下贴子吧。Petition的内容已经综合考虑大家的反馈意见后改了一下,内容的前后顺序等也调了,突出重点的噪音及交通停车问题。

https://www.change.org/en-AU/pet ... rest-road-penshurst

We believe that the Hurstville Council should reject the development application to extend a Mosque at 445 Forest Rd for the following reasons -

Noise pollution

Firstly many residents feel that it is inappropriate to extend the current Mosque at 445 Forest Rd, and set up a new 30-metre high minareta. We strongly believe that there will be material negative effects upon the local community. This includes concerns about noise pollution from the constant daily use of the Mosque. In particular there are concerns about the "call to prayer" which happens up to five times a day and is usually played from loud speakers on the tower.  Noises from the Mosque and related activity could affect not only those nearby but could potentially reach a farther area with the loud speakers on this 30-metre high minareta.

噪音污染问题,特别是有广播等,而且次数多。

Impact on traffic and parking

The most concerning of all is the traffic congestion and parking problems this Mosque and its associated activities may bring about. The proposed Mosque plans to cater for additional worshipers who may visit up to 5 times a day whilst providing only very limited parking facilities.  Forest Rd is one of the main and busiest roads in this Council. Traffic and parking in the neighbourhood area is already under strain. Several major residential buildings under construction around this area are expected to increase traffic and the need for additional parking spaces around this area. The extension of this Mosque will push traffic and parking in the area beyond its limits, causing severe issues for local residents and all through traffic.

交通停车问题,也提到了forest rd是主要道路,并且还有好多在建的居住楼,整体已经是不能负荷。


Impact on nearby community facility and services

Due to the traffic and parking issues from the frequent visits by prayers, this could also significantly affect the accessibility and services of the next-door Pole Depot Neighbourhood Centre, which is an important community facility providing a diverse range of social support services to over 500 people living in the St George region and surrounding areas each week.  There are also a few schools, childcares, before school and after school care centres nearby. The volume and frequency of visits in and out of the Mosque could cause traffic and parking issues for parents who are already time-constraint during peak hours and affect their access to such public and community services.

对社区服务的影响,包括旁边的Pole Depot centre, 附近的childcare, 学校等。(我没有提个别朋友建议的对小孩的心理影响问题,因为可能涉及到宗教的问题)。


Impact on the environment

The Mosque building, particularly with its size, height and the 30-metre minareta, won’t be consistent in style and design with existing buildings in the area, and will affect the living environment of the neighbourhood.  In fact it could be visually overbearing.

对社区环境和市容的影响

Over development and loss of privacy

With the additional floors and 30-metre minareta as proposed in the DA application and the large number of visitors coming in and out of this building on a daily basis, the extended Mosque will result in significant loss of privacy, daylight and sunlight to neighbouring properties.

过度开发,对附近居民的隐私、光照等的影响。

Considering the various issues and material adverse impact this proposed Mosque development plan may have on the neighbourhood, as local residents, we together urge the Council to reject this development plan.

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发表于 2013-11-11 00:05 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 bluecanthus 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 bluecanthus 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 bluecanthus 于 2013-11-11 00:09 编辑

4 联系住户 参加听证 扩大我们附近居民的知情权

单单利用华人的力量可能还不够, 其他很多组织都可能对此举动反感. 比如说, 教会(无论基督教还是天主教), 附近的学校, 社区组织等. 单附近的学校就有4所, Penshurst Public, St Declan School, Georges River Colleague & Penshurst West Public, 还有2个day care. 如果有人孩子去这些学校或是day care或是附近的教堂, 和校长或牧师表达你的concern, 如果他们也有同样顾虑, 估计活动能力会比我们普通人强很多.

发表于 2013-11-11 00:08 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 bluecanthus 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 bluecanthus 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 bluecanthus 于 2013-11-11 21:55 编辑

5 发传单及传单样式

又仔细想了一下, 对这个开发影响最大的是penshurst铁路线以北,king george rd 以西, mortdale的boundary rd以东, 最北到stoney creek rd这个范围内的居民。什么是最有效的通知他们的方法呢?

1. 在penshurst and mortdale火车站北侧在上下班的高峰时段发传单
2. 马路上挨家挨户发传单

传单的内容可以很简单:提供两个版本

版本(一)

Dear resident,

We'd like to bring to your attention the recent DA application of a 2 story mosque at  445 Forest Rd Penshurst with a 30 meter tall pray tower, if you are not aware of it yet. The details of this application can be found at the Hurstville council website with the DA number (DA2013/0315).

'http://daenquiry.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/masterviewui/Modules/Applicationmaster/Default.aspx

Concerning such a significant development which may have a long term impact on the community, the community needs to hear your opinion, your local councilors can be reached via the following contact details.

http://www.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/Mayor-Councillors.html

Alternatively you can either support or object this application via the below link by quoting the address and the DA number aforementioned. However the link may close by 15th of Nov , therefore hurry up if you have not done that.

http://www.hurstville.nsw.gov.au/Submission-on-DA.html

The council should based its decision after fully consulting the local residents and the community, it will be extremely unfortunate if your voice were not heard prior to a decision. Please pay the council a visit, pick up your phone or write a email before too late.


版本(二)

此文章由 moonstar 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 moonstar 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 moonstar 于 2013-11-11 21:36 编辑


我终稿出来了,有没有哪几位帮我再看一下? formatting 请忽略,copy and paste时会有些出错。 版主,咱写都是根据council的development plan 要求来的,不涉及政治,种族,blah blah.  签名的来这, 看有没有可能拿到400个支持 https://www.change.org/en-AU/pet ... rest-road-penshurst

我看那个DA申请细节的时候发现这份申请里申请人真的是睁着眼睛说瞎话的,真的需要我们自己站出来说自己的观点。

Dear Mayor and Councillors,

Re: Development Application (DA2013/0315) for alterations and additions to existing Mosque – Group and first floor additions including new domed roof s and new 30m high minaret at 445 Forest Rd, Penshurst

We are a group of residents within the Hurstville Council area concerned with the said Development Application (DA2013/0315) and hereby object to this Development Application.  In particular our concerns relate to the noise pollution, traffic congestion, insufficient parking spaces, landscape change, loss of amenity and resultant detrimental impacts on the surrounding area and local residents.  We have launched an on-line petition and received over 350 online signatures over a four-day period.  

A.        Reasons for our objection
We outlined below the main concerns we have regarding the proposed Development Plan and reasons for our objection:

Impact on traffic and parking
The most concerning of all is the traffic congestion and parking problems this extended Mosque and its associated activities may bring about.

Even before the proposed extension, the Mosque and Imam residence already occupies the whole site and therefore car parking previously has not been provided on site. Now this Development Application proposed an addition of 189 square metres floor space and a second floor, a new 30-metre high minaret, and new domed roofs. This is a major change to size and appearance of the existing Mosque and residence on site. Whilst the applicant claimed in the DA application that the extension won’t  increase patronage, we have serious reservation and doubt about this statement.  With this substantial increase in size, and the new features of 30 metre high minaret and domed roofs, we do believe this extended and significantly altered Mosque will inevitably attract a much larger group of prayers, and this site could become a site for major events and holidays. Due to the fact that the proposed development plan fails to meet the traffic and parking space requirements as prescribed under the Hurstville Council’s Development Control Plan, we are concerned that the applicant might have understated the number of potential visitors, expected traffic, and volume and frequency of visits, with a view to obtaining development approval in spite of the proposed plan’s non-compliance with the Council’s Development Control Plan. As the current Mosque has already failed to provide any onsite parking space, this major extension and change to the Mosque could exacerbate the shortage of parking spaces in connection with the operation of this Mosque.

We noticed in the DA application document that it was mentioned parking spaces in the nearby shopping centre and near the council would be part of the solution of the parking problem. With the long distance between these offsite parkings and the Mosque, we feel this is an unfounded argument, but a sign that the proposed Mosque extension fails to provide any solution to its lack of onsite parking space, and have to propose some impractical solution to the problem.

It is also worth noting Forest Rd is one of the main and busiest roads in this Council. Traffic and parking in the neighbourhood area is already under strain. Several major residential buildings under construction around this area are expected to increase traffic and the need for additional parking spaces around this area. The extension of this Mosque will push traffic and parking in the area beyond its limits, causing severe issues for local residents and all through traffic.

Last but not the least, the frequency of visits for daily prays (up to five times a day), the number of major holidays and events throughout the year could make these traffic and parking issues a persistent and repeated problem for the neighbourhood and local residents.


Noise pollution

As mentioned above, we do believe the extended and changed Mosque will bring in a much larger number of visitors regularly on a daily basis. This includes concerns about noise pollution from the constant daily use of the Mosque. In particular there are concerns about that prays up to five times a day and the much larger group of prayers coming into the neighbourhood following this Mosque extension.  



Loss of amenity and impact on nearby community facility and services

Due to noise, traffic and parking issues from the frequent visits by prayers, as outlined above, this could also significantly affect the accessibility and services of the next-door Pole Depot Neighbourhood Centre, which is an important community facility providing a diverse range of social support services to over 500 people living in the St George region and surrounding areas each week.  There are also a few schools, childcares, before school and after school care centres nearby. The volume and frequency of visits in and out of the Mosque could cause traffic and parking issues, and potentially safety concern for family and children using such public and community services.

Impact on the environment

The Mosque building, particularly with its size, height, domed roofs and the 30-metre minaret, won’t be consistent with the landscape in the surrounding area, and will affect the living environment of the neighbourhood.  In fact it could be visually overbearing to people in this neighbourhood.

Over development and loss of privacy

Even before the extension, the space of the Mosque and Iman residency already doesn’t allow it to provide onsite parking.  The extension would further reduce the open space available at this side. With the expansion of floor space, an additional floor, and a 30-m high Minaret as proposed in the DA application and the large number of visitors coming in and out of this building on a daily basis, the extended Mosque will result in significant loss of privacy, daylight and sunlight to neighbouring properties.


Considering the various issues and material detrimental impact this proposed Mosque development plan may have on the neighbourhood and local residents, as local residents, we together urge the Council to reject this development plan.

B. Request for extension of consultation period, public consultation and public hearing

In conjunction with this objection, we also urge the Council to extend the period for the public to submit objection or other opinion, provide more information to the broader community for their input, and hold a public hearing with regard to this Development Application.

We believe this is a development of significant interest to the community in Hurstville Council. We, however, understand that the Council has only notified a very small group of residents of this Development Application, and failed to engage and consulte with the broader community in Hurstville.  We only became aware of this Development Application a few days ago through conversation with some other residents in this area. Given the public interest involved and the various detrimental impacts this Development Plan may have on the community (as outlined above), we urge the Council to extend the period and coverage of consultation, and hold a public hearing on this matter.

               *        *        *        *
We, being local residents in this Council, expect the Council and the Councillors to take into consideration the opinion and concerns of local residents, and consider this Development Application accordingly.

Yours sincerely,
XXXX

Encls:
List of [350] Online Signatures
Copy of the online petition as posted




总结:再次重申我们对事不对人 请大家少说多做 不要发表激进言论货号召全体华人反对穆斯林 让新足迹难做

谢谢上面各位达人 小生带penhurst mortdale的居民孩子谢谢你们做出的努力 让我们知道了这件事并告诉我们该怎么办,这厢有礼了
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发表于 2013-11-11 06:00 |显示全部楼层
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大家还是先了解一下伊斯兰教和council运作在提出反对的理由吧。

1)穆斯林是何时做礼拜, 时间多长?

2)了解一下市政府对capacity, 噪音的管理, 澳洲的法律是innocent until proven guilty.

这上面提供的反对理由都是"万一他们怎么怎么。。。", 都是先assume他们会不遵守规定, 如果他们遵守条件, 如果他们确实只有100人以下去, 都是周五下午2点就离开, 钟楼确实不喊经, 你还会反对吗? 如果你还坚持他们不会遵守council的condition,  你是认为council没有能力管理好区内的非民居的违章行为?

发表于 2013-11-11 08:10 |显示全部楼层
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明明就是对人不对事嘛!

原先的帖子连个发言的机会都不给,直接和谐了。

新闻达人 2019年度勋章

发表于 2013-11-11 08:19 |显示全部楼层
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请大家保持在Town Planning的框架内讨论。

发表于 2013-11-11 08:22 |显示全部楼层
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我上周五发了email,周六收到Nancy Liu的回复表示email已经收到。。。

发表于 2013-11-11 08:25 |显示全部楼层
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我最想知道的是吸引的是普通信仰伊斯兰教的人,还是有暴力倾向的人,
照道理有信仰的人都是和平的人,不应该有不良举动,甚至比无信仰的人行为都良好
但总的来说对穆斯林了解的不多
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发表于 2013-11-11 08:31 |显示全部楼层
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第一条我就不太明白,上下课时间,又有几个人去那个教堂呢?会影响到上下课接学生?

发表于 2013-11-11 08:37 |显示全部楼层
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ys98 发表于 2013-11-11 09:19
请大家保持在Town Planning的框架内讨论。

这类讨论本来就有违我爱我家的主题,请愿类别他们应该到大千世界去讨论。

而且, 为什么连我这么一个普通民众发表意见的机会都不给? 只许周官放火不许百姓点灯? 和谐足迹?

希望版主酌情考虑!

至,


礼,


网民

发表于 2013-11-11 08:38 |显示全部楼层
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看到网上签名的网页,居然连500的签名都还没有凑齐,大家快去签名写意见吧!

发表于 2013-11-11 08:49 |显示全部楼层
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其实这个事情真还谈不上歧视的问题,245的tx,相信就算造这么个雄伟的庙,你们也不会喜欢吧。245是居民区,不是旅游景点。

发表于 2013-11-11 08:51 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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顶起。为避免删帖 请不要发表过激言论
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发表于 2013-11-11 08:56 |显示全部楼层
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穆斯林兄弟也是兄弟

发表于 2013-11-11 08:58 |显示全部楼层
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bluecanthus 发表于 2013-11-11 01:04
3网络签名 已有319人,但似乎停止不前了 但时间却不多了 只有4天了

网上签名:

我今天下午稍后把内容再改一下明天就寄出了(email所有councillors, 加一个到hurstville council的next day delivery priority mail,因为他们都share一个地址,这个我就给mayor及deputy mayor)。帖子拿下来数字就没什么动,300多个签名也还行, 估计也不会大量增加到500了。你把link改成hyperlink吧,方便别人点击进去。

发表于 2013-11-11 09:01 |显示全部楼层
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ys98 发表于 2013-11-11 09:19
请大家保持在Town Planning的框架内讨论。

班主, 我借帖问一下, 我那个帖子里也明确说了, 只说事件, 不谈宗教种族, 怎么也被删了, 心里想不明白.

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参与人数 1积分 +5 收起 理由
Jinoramic + 5 安慰一下

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发表于 2013-11-11 09:01 |显示全部楼层
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支持一把,避免过激讨论,和谐和谐

愿意支持的,在这个贴里集中

反对的,或者支持穆斯林兄弟建塔的,可以另开一个帖子讨论吗,或者建议把30米改成60米,更加雄伟

没必要挤在一个帖子里,吵来吵去最后被封贴
:)

发表于 2013-11-11 09:02 |显示全部楼层
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盐商格格 发表于 2013-11-11 10:01
班主, 我借帖问一下, 我那个帖子里也明确说了, 只说事件, 不谈宗教种族, 怎么也被删了, 心里想不明白. ...

问题是有些人谈着谈着就往那方向去了。。。
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发表于 2013-11-11 09:20 |显示全部楼层
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ameng00 发表于 2013-11-11 10:02
问题是有些人谈着谈着就往那方向去了。。。

真的只讨论市政规划嘛?看看这开题,不是事儿就是人,再不就跟种族歧视沾边儿。

你要是不提就别提,还写出来。。。晕。

希望只讨论种族歧视!


对不起,上面写错了,我是说只讨论市政规划。。。请愿的请到大千世界版讨论。

发表于 2013-11-11 09:32 |显示全部楼层
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kpang 发表于 2013-11-11 10:20
真的只讨论市政规划嘛?看看这开题,不是事儿就是人,再不就跟种族歧视沾边儿。

你要是不提就别提,还写 ...

不和你争, 争了你的目的就达到了, 以后就直接忽略你吧. 如果你有过激言论, 请班主锁了你.  

发表于 2013-11-11 09:38 |显示全部楼层
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盐商格格 发表于 2013-11-11 10:32
不和你争, 争了你的目的就达到了, 以后就直接忽略你吧. 如果你有过激言论, 请班主锁了你.   ...

赤脚的不怕穿鞋的,你爱锁锁去吧,咱也不是没背和谐过,就是被和谐弄烦了出来的。

P.S. 我没必要发表过激言论,客观就好了,点到为止,希望不明白的能明白。

发表于 2013-11-11 09:43 |显示全部楼层
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科普没问题吧, 伊斯兰教一天五次祷告, 时间依此大约为: 早上日出前; 正午; 下午3-4点; 日落后; 夜晚. 放狗搜的, 好象下午这个最重要, 而且星期五下午的这个必须去清真寺,还有周六上午. 除了每日的五次外, 每年有一个月的斋月和大概8个节日.

科普完了, 请大家不要轻易发表意见, 这只是科普.

班主如果认为不合适, 我就删了.

发表于 2013-11-11 09:46 |显示全部楼层
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jasmineh 发表于 2013-11-11 06:00
大家还是先了解一下伊斯兰教和council运作在提出反对的理由吧。

1)穆斯林是何时做礼拜, 时间多长?

赞同。实际上,对论坛某些高喊反对的同学而言。即使这个清真寺不喊经,噪音完全符合标准,各方面也完全符合规划,反对的人,依然还是会反对的。总结起来就是四个字:看不顺眼。但是话说回来,我觉得反对的同学有一条是非常理性,非常值得赞叹的。这一条就是,作为居民,你完全有这个反对的权力。提出反对,完全没问题的。连反对都不让人家反对,这个就是变态了。至于有的同学反对,看到别人不反对,或者不支持他的反对,他就骂人家是汉奸,这种做法是非常可笑的。要不然就干脆骂人家说,中国人不团结,更是狗屁逻辑。你反对,人家不反对,就是跟你不团结?你这个叫做独裁思想。一定要人家的想法与你一致才好,这又何必?这个事件,理性看待就好,你反对,可以,说清楚理由,你不反对,也说清楚理由,这不是很好吗?为何一定要相互骂来骂去?有一个同学说得极好,说这个清真寺如何结果我们还不知道,但是我们这帮同学吵得不可开交,真让人讨厌。我很赞同。何必呢?有话好好说,说出理由,大家认可,自然支持你。不必扣帽子,不必辱骂对方,照样可以把道理讲清楚嘛。

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参与人数 5积分 +11 收起 理由
Paul5005 + 4 我很赞同
robin_ld + 2 我很赞同
Birdzhao + 1 我很赞同

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此有故彼有,此生故彼生,此無故彼無,此灭故彼灭。
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发表于 2013-11-11 09:53 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 jasmineh 于 2013-11-11 09:58 编辑
盐商格格 发表于 2013-11-11 09:43
科普没问题吧, 伊斯兰教一天五次祷告, 时间依此大约为: 早上日出前; 正午; 下午3-4点; 日落后; 夜晚. 放狗 ...


那同学们知道为啥他们做traffic调查时,挑的是周五中午1-2点了吧?如果大家要讲traffic问题,就要围绕着周五中午时间来谈,跟上学放学无关的。

在悉尼,去庙的是周五中午12:40分那场。

发表于 2013-11-11 09:56 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 盐商格格 于 2013-11-11 10:58 编辑
jasmineh 发表于 2013-11-11 10:53
那同学们知道为啥他们做traffic调查时,挑的是周五中午1-2点了吧?如果大家要讲traffic问题,就要围绕着 ...


您看错了吧, 我的理解是3-4点的那个是祷告高潮, 这不正是放学时间吗?

发表于 2013-11-11 10:01 |显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 jasmineh 于 2013-11-11 10:03 编辑
盐商格格 发表于 2013-11-11 09:56
您看错了吧, 我的理解是3-4点的那个是祷告高潮, 这不正是放学时间吗?


The Friday prayer replaces the dhuhr prayer performed on the other six days of the week. The precise time for this congregational prayer varies with the mosque, but in all cases it must be performed after the dhuhr and before the asr times. If one is unable to join the congregation, then they must pray the dhuhr prayer instead. This salat is compulsory to be done with ja'maat for men. Women have the option to perform Jumm'ah in the mosque or to pray dhuhr

- Dhuhr是midday正午那场。

发表于 2013-11-11 10:10 |显示全部楼层
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呵呵, 还真有不同解释啊. ASR是3-4点那个, 给council的DA里承认周五"下午"的那场很重要.

ASR is the one to take greatest care over

Allah, the Most Perfect and the Most High has ordered His slaves to establish the prayers with due care. He has told us to take special care concerning the middle prayer, which is the Asr prayer. (This is the opinion of the majority of the people of knowledge from the Companions and those after them, that the middle prayer is the Asr prayer.) (Sharh us-Sunnah of al-Baghawee 2/232-237)

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